183 réponses à ce sujet

[Rasputin]

madsabroo wrote...

Not to rip on "core fan-base" people, whatever the hell that means, but knowing that most players didn't bother to look at origins other than "Male" and "Warrior" has got to be frustrating.

I'm not sure you can expect a company to continue making content for a base of players that only attempt to scratch the surface of the game. It's got to be demoralizing to put time, effort and creativity into something and then find out only a fraction of DA:O players ever looked at the dwarf origins or completed the more obscure side quests. If the people who are buying these games just want to play as humans, why funnel money and resources into things that almost nobody experiences?

I enjoyed playing through the different origins, many people on these forums did, but BioWare is responding to feedback given to them by the large percentage of casual gamers that do not come anywhere near these forums. It's logical, and I can't argue with their decision to change the direction of the franchise.

I would love to have been a fly on the wall when this decision process was being made to go human and to go voice (like ME).... cause I also tried to solve every quest and experience MANY if not all of the character inro's.  Also..... I didnt log into Boiware Social when I play all the time... this is a SP game... I have no need to compare my results to other people or drain my comp resources by being connected... (now that I have a new comp its moot but still ... meh?)

Anyway... I just want to say for the record that I enjoyed the dwarf, elf and human beginnings etc.  Hope they come back for DA3.

I also will buy the game because its BioWare and because I can RP other classes for now.  Also.. its a good thing to do to pass the time waiting for the greatest game release year in memory: SW:toR, TES5, ME3.... *sees stars*

[bloodreaperfx]

Rockpopple wrote...



Gross!



Nasty!



I think I'm gonna be sick.

Yeah, you're right. The game looks like crap. 

Have to agree with this. Any game, no matter how pretty it looks can have a few crappy looking scenes. Take Oblivion for example. I've seen amazing screens and awful ones took at the same quality and without any mods.

Capping a scene from a somewhat desolate and brown area (as it is supposed to be, blight and all) doesn't mean the whole game has a craptastic art direction. Also taking in the fact that it was a pretty old build where the graphics are probably not so polished further proves the point:

So far we have no hands-on experience on HOW the game looks. The Demo is missing very high settings, the only areas available for playing are the escape from Lothering and a dark Kirkwall backalley fight. Until we actually see more scene variety and unlocked options in the graphics menu, passing judgement at this point is meaningless.

As far as the combat and game mechanics. I have to say, I can't really debate with your concerns. They are subjective and so are mine. You might not like it, I pretty much enjoy the more action oriented combat scenes.....so to each his own. 

But I am going to tell you this: There is a fine line betwen judging a game with geniune concern about faulty mechanics and being elitist. I played most if not all Bioware classics. Heck, i'm playing Planescape Torment right now, a game where you dont have to fight at all (most of the times) if you're smart about it. Do I have a problem with a more action-oriented approach? No. Do I find DA 2's mechanics faulty in a way that it makes the game broken? No. By arguing your point with phrases like "OMG DYNASTY WARRIORS" (merely an example, not in this case) you're just making yourself look like an elitist.

I appreciate concerns which can be....quantified...in a matter of speaking, over a large fan-base as real problems affecting gameplay or the looks and overall "shiny" of the final product.

Anything else is purely a subjective oppinon. I , of course, will respect it as I hope you'll respect mine. So we can agree to disagree.

Modifié par bloodreaperfx, 27 février 2011 - 08:37 .

[BeardedNinja]

Lennonkun wrote...

Those DA2 screens look no different from DA:O with a hi-res texture mod, of which anyone with a decent PC had.

DA2 looks "better" because of the DX11, that is all. As is DA2 without DX11 looks worse than DA:O.

did it say anywhere that those screens where enhanced graphics only? I'm curious.

[Rasputin]

I dont think the interview bashed DA:O gamers at all.... *shrugs*

[MegWithAMouth]

sycophantichallenger wrote...

WuWeiWu wrote...

XBenotto18 wrote...

Some of your points, your saying are true? No opinion is true as a fact because its your opinion and others will differ from yours.

He was asking that, for the purposes of this conversation and his posts, to assume his opinions as true. Which is a fair thing to ask, if he hadn't gone about it all wrong.

Can you accept that I am no longer interested in discussing whether the changes made between DA2 and DAO are "good" or "bad"? That I am not interested in having this thread devolve into the same conversation that occurs in EVERY thread? 

This is why my argument requires that this is accepted as true. Because I"m not interested in debating this point AGAIN!

If you do not wish to discuss, don't. Please don't sidetrack my thread.

If our own opinions of the game essentially have no meaning since we're expected to accept your word as truth, then what can anyone possibly contribute to this "discussion" aside from emphatically agreeing with you and praising your brilliant idea not to support Bioware? Not only are you proposing that we let you think for us, but you're suggesting that we boycott the game of one of the few devs in the industry that has always been fiercly supportive of their fan base as a whole.

That said, I think we would all benefit from waiting to play the game itself before we made any final decisions on the matter. It may not be what DAO was, but that doesn't mean you won't enjoy it.

[Ace Attorney]

sycophantichallenger wrote...

If internal BIOWARE or EA eyes do happen across this forum post, could you please pass it up the chain that IT IS NOT FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE TO ALIENATE YOUR EXISTING FAN BASE IN THE PERSUIT OF A PERCEIVED NEW MARKET. If you see that new market and would like to appeal to it, create a new product... a new IP. Don't missapropriate existing IP to fit a new mold... 

Thing is, it isn't alienating their existing fan base. You are in the small minority.

[Faust1979]

madsabroo wrote...

Not to rip on "core fan-base" people, whatever the hell that means, but knowing that most players didn't bother to look at origins other than "Male" and "Warrior" has got to be frustrating.

I'm not sure you can expect a company to continue making content for a base of players that only attempt to scratch the surface of the game. It's got to be demoralizing to put time, effort and creativity into something and then find out only a fraction of DA:O players ever looked at the dwarf origins or completed the more obscure side quests. If the people who are buying these games just want to play as humans, why funnel money and resources into things that almost nobody experiences?

I enjoyed playing through the different origins, many people on these forums did, but BioWare is responding to feedback given to them by the large percentage of casual gamers that do not come anywhere near these forums. It's logical, and I can't argue with their decision to change the direction of the franchise.

I have played through most of the origins except for the mage and I have played as female once. I keep thinking to myself I have to at least try out Mage just once but I don't know running around the Fade as a mage just sounds like it would be a boring possibly an even more annoying experience. I hope we get a dwarf main character in the next game or even a elf.  Because if you they follow suit with a third game they can make playing as a different race actually matter in the game

[SarahRhadis]

You know, if I hadn't actually watched the interview I probably would have bought into the whole.. "Silverman spent most of his time insulting DA:O players." Since I did watch it, I can't honestly see what statement has brought you to that conclusion. In fact what I took from that interview was that they tried to make the game appealing to a more casual audience and the "old school cRPG" both.

I don't really see a problem with that either.. So what if you can play it more casually on Easy and Medium, if Hard and Nightmare still require use of advance tactics? Aside from animations, and overall speed the combat feels pretty much the same at its core as DA:O. On that note, the Demo was locked to Medium.. which by that interview would fall under more Action Adventure play.

I personally enjoyed the combat in the demo greatly and I played it through 5 or 6 times. On the subject of overall style of the art direction. I was totally against it when I first saw screens of DA2 in my Game Informer a few months ago, but its grown on me. I actually prefer the way the Ogre looks now in DA2 over DA:O. Ultimately when it comes to visuals and art style its entirely subjective, but I certainly doubt it was designed to slight the DA:O fan base.

Will I buy DA2 entirely based on my past experiences with Bioware? Absolutely, they have earned that much good will from me. Based on my experiences with the Demo at least I can say I'm very excited to see more, but I'll ultimately reserve judgment on content I haven't experienced until I actually play through it. If you didn't enjoy anything about the Demo, then don't buy DA2 on day 1 and wait till there are more player and professional reviews. Then you can decide if it is or isn't a game for you, it's really as simple as that.

[Buffy-Summers]

I agree with the OP in all aspect and i pray to the Maker that this game has a LOWER metacric rating and sales worse then the original


I dont care if that kills any chance of a DA3, better to have no game then to have a hybrid rpg / action game when there are far more of those then real and true RPGs

[PrinceOfFallout13]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

I agree with the OP in all aspect and i pray to the Maker that this game has a LOWER metacric rating and sales worse then the original


I dont care if that kills any chance of a DA3, better to have no game then to have a hybrid rpg / action game when there are far more of those then real and true RPGs

u mad? poor poor poor kid heres a tissue *hands over the tissue*

[Glorfindel709]

distinguetraces wrote...

What bewilders me about the dialogue-wheel rage is ... were these people really satisfied with the "role-playing choices" under the previous system?

A handful of slightly different ways to phrase your acceptance of the same quest do not really give a lot of scope to define a unique character. It's always been the case that Bioware's writers created a personality for your hero, and confined the possible variations on that personality to a very narrow range. And why not? They are the ones telling the story.

Did you really never notice this until the dialogue options were arrayed around a ring rather than stacked in a list? I just don't get it.

For me, I cannot immerse myself as Hawke when I have three words and an icon describing the intent of the response I can choose, and suddenly I find my character either telling someone to go to hell or launching into a soliloquy. With the text based stacked options in Dragon Age, I could imagine the tone and know exactly what my Warden was saying because it was *my* Warden.

With Hawke I feel like an electric puppet master - I hit some buttons and my puppet correspondingly acts but then there's a glitch and suddenly he's dancing disco and I have no idea what happened.

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 28 février 2011 - 06:47 .

[Buffy-Summers]

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

Buffy-Summers wrote...

I agree with the OP in all aspect and i pray to the Maker that this game has a LOWER metacric rating and sales worse then the original


I dont care if that kills any chance of a DA3, better to have no game then to have a hybrid rpg / action game when there are far more of those then real and true RPGs

u mad? poor poor poor kid heres a tissue *hands over the tissue*

I wonder if your less then stellar comment will get you a finger shake by the bioware mods or is it ok to troll the disenfranchised

[Eurypterid]

PrinceOfFallout13 wrote...

Buffy-Summers wrote...

I agree with the OP in all aspect and i pray to the Maker that this game has a LOWER metacric rating and sales worse then the original


I dont care if that kills any chance of a DA3, better to have no game then to have a hybrid rpg / action game when there are far more of those then real and true RPGs

u mad? poor poor poor kid heres a tissue *hands over the tissue*

How about this: if people decide to ignore John's warning posted earlier in the thread, we'll leave the thread open and just... suspend some posting privileges.

Get the picture?

If you're intent on insulting and trolling, you'll find you'll have to post elsewhere.

[Fishy]

distinguetraces wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...
What is it? Are you complaining that the graphics in the demo are too drab? Again, play DA:O again. It was a sea of brown and beige.

I am really appreciating the graphics on my current replay of Origins. Ostagar is lovely.

And you can't deny:

I remember this DA2 screenshot.It's was into the first dragon age 2 article on gameinformer( in August i think).I though it's was ugly also . So much that i remember  thinking it's was a DA:O MOD and that someone with crappy photoshop skill did some background.

Seriously..What was bioware thinking with that screenshot?

Modifié par Suprez30, 28 février 2011 - 06:56 .

[Vena_86]

Well, these points are not of much importance to me anymore. Actually I embrace the new art design alone for the fact, that with it, the engine can perform with much better efficiency.
To me the biggest let downs are the open ending, the shorter, less epic main story and the choice of having more, but less developed characters in the game. I can only judge from reviews and previews thus far, but I am rather positive that these points are infact true. To me specially because of these points, DA2 won't have the same impact and qualities DA:O had, although the gameplay might have improved.

Modifié par Vena_86, 28 février 2011 - 07:06 .

[Rock Mu]

sycophantichallenger wrote...



DAO for what it was, was a huge success. DAO surpassed sales expectations both in sales of copies and sale of DLC by a significant margin. Realizing they have a successfull title on their hands with which the had managed to bridge a gap between "old school RPG nerds" (me) and a younger market of gamers (ie: ppl who appreciate "the new ****" TM), EA GAMES (ie: the money) has decided they would like to make significantly more money on the sequel. This is to be expected of any responsible publicly traded corporation as they exist to make money for their shareholders.

I think you are more than entitled to your opinions. However as an "old school RPG nerd" myself, I would prefer not to be grouped together with you. I enjoyed the demo. I thought it was fun and I look forward to playing the game on the 8th. The whole perception that only younger gamers or console gamers will enjoy this game is really annoying the hell out of me. I'm pushing 40, work 45+ hours a week & have kids. I've been playing crpgs since the old D&D games on the C64 & the first Ultima. I also know for a fact I will enjoy playing through Hawke's tale.

My point? The whole "Old school" VS "young/console gamer" thing is tired BS. Plenty of "old school" gamers I know that are most likely older than a lot of people flying that flag enjoyed the DA2 demo. So please cut the labeling crap. There are plenty of us older folks out here that are not on your team.

[John Sheridan]

OP assumes that there are people who are old school RPG fans and have no problem with DA2.

Modifié par John Sheridan, 28 février 2011 - 07:58 .

[Brawne]

I want to play a game, not RPG Simulator 2011 like most of whining die hards in this forum. As such I'm perfectly happy with the direction Bioware took with DA2.
And thank the Maker that I didnt buy DA:O, that way I dont have to compare those two games until I go blue in face and can just enjoy the game.

[Brimleydower]

I'm with the OP.  I don't like when existing franchises are taken down an entirely different path in an attempt to "modernize" them.  This is what turned me off to the Final Fantasy (sorry to name the unspeakable evil) series long ago.  I'd rather see new titles relegated to these jaunts into unexplored territories, and let their successes build upon themselves.  In other words, I wish that Dragon Age II would have focused on perfecting/fixing/improving what all ready existed in Dragon Age: Origins, rather than larger changes to the game.

Ultimately, Dragon Age II will probably be a decent/good game.  For me, I doubt severely it will hold a candle to Dragon Age: Origins.  When things gravitate towards the mainstream, they tend to begin shaking off the people who exist on the fringe.  Maybe the type of RPG I'm interested in is just too outdated to survive in today's market.  I hope this isn't the case, and that Dragon Age's future will steer a little closer to it's Origins (ah HA!).  If not... oh well.  I'll move on to other things, and look fondly on the long run I had with Bioware's games.

[McCoder]

I must admit i dont understand the problem with the dialog wheel, i actually liked it, i always hated dialog options where you decide that option 3 is the most correct for your character and afterwards you realized that it was delivered in a completely different way than you assumed it would be, and while you could argue that if the options was described better you wouldnt make that mistake, the dialog wheel kind of takes care of much of the guesswork as you more or less know how the words are delivered.

I do feel that we are being limited with regards to the isometric view, too much focusing on Hawke, the rest of your party feels more like extras than ....friends..

The sped up combat suits me fine, i can still pause the combat so no problem there

and its still a demo, we have yet to see the full game

[Vahe]

John Sheridan wrote...

OP assumes that there are people who are old school RPG fans and have no problem with DA2.

[Barker673]

Well, if you remember correctly when the marketing campaign for DA:O was finally released with "This is the new S**!" my Manson as the title song, everyone was in an uproar, but the game was still a throwback to classic RPG days.

The thing that people don't seem to understand that it's necessary for an IP, especially a successful game franchise, to expand and adapt to the market and make changes. Would you be happy if DAII was just a re-hash of DA:O with the same mechanics, visuals, bugs and glitches?

Personally I love the way DAII has changed from DA:O, it seems like a natural progression -- and to me, these things you're bringing up (The dialogue wheel, the visual re-design) as bad things just seem a poor way to get your point across about a game you don't even own.

[Solid N7]

sycophantichallenger wrote...

Allow me to lead off with an apology. I've been guilty of some pretty aggressive trolling on this board in the past. I do not feel this is because I am a "bad person" or "just a troll" however. Following a recent moment of lucidity I realized that my past trolling was due to an inability to reconcile the changes the sequel to one of my favorite titles with the expectations I had for it. Video games are my escape from a hugely stressfull line of work. I am passionate about them on a level that many people are not. During this moment of clarity it occured to me I should put pen to paper and submit them to the digital ether for deconstruction and criticism by the nameless faceless horde. (yes, I am self aggrandizing for comical effect). Here are my thoughts.

Taking the following points as being true (from my position as they are my personal point of view):

 - The changes to the dialogue system have effectively killed RP in the game for me.
 - The poor/childish visual "redesign" have effectively killed immersion for me.
 - The "push a button and something awesome happens" design philosophy has ruined the appeal of the gameplay.

These are all contributing factors to my current state of dissatisfaction with what this IP has become and I feel a sense of betrayal from the games developers considering that the previous title (DAO) was marketed and sold as a true to roots BIOWARE RPG game. In less than 1 year the have done a complete 180 on many of the fronts that were CRITICAL in causing the first game to be the success that it was They created a game to appeal to an existing fanbase based on the front that it was a "return" to type of experience they had previously.

DAO for what it was, was a huge success. DAO surpassed sales expectations both in sales of copies and sale of DLC by a significant margin. Realizing they have a successfull title on their hands with which the had managed to bridge a gap between "old school RPG nerds" (me) and a younger market of gamers (ie: ppl who appreciate "the new ****" TM), EA GAMES (ie: the money) has decided they would like to make significantly more money on the sequel. This is to be expected of any responsible publicly traded corporation as they exist to make money for their shareholders.

So out come the marketers and their marketing terms. DA2 is going to be a "visually super-hot" experience where you "push a button and something awesome happens". It is a new "cinematic" experience (ie: dialogue wheel, ie: passive experience you watch rather than deciding a course or truly effecting an outcome). These were not empty marketing slogans, but descriptors of things that had changed from the previous title. I would argue that they significantly changed the way the game looks (visual re-design), plays (awesome button), and is experienced (dialogue system), changing core aspects of the game. Some story connections and shared nomenclature between the previous title and the new title does not a sequel make...

So now I am faced with the choice of accepting what is a different and for me, unappealing experience or leaving it behind. Now here is where I get hung up. Because there was a perceived promise of purity of experience that DAO
made to it's "old school fan base". The 180 turnaround on the sequal felt like a slap in the face, a betrayal. Rather than simply moving on to something else as I would if I came accross a website or commercial marketing the SIMS or BULLETSTORM I felt personally slighted. Granted, this was an emotional conflageration rather than a jusified view based on any true or accurate attempt by bioware or EA to give me the finger.

So here is where it stands; DA2 is not created for or marketed to myself or those like me (passionate DAO, Baldur's Gate, classic RPG fans). I have always enjoyed BIOWARE games in the past, based in part on the quality of the story.

Will i play DA2? Yes... I would like to experience the story... I will wait a couple of months and purchase a used copy of the game from EBGAMES. This is a conscious choice to vote with my dollars against these changes as I realize that I can effect no change through intelligent conversation or suggestion since this is not a feedback mechanism that exists in a corporate world (money talks, bull**** walks). I would encourage others who share this viewpoint to do the same... vote with your dollars.

If internal BIOWARE or EA eyes do happen across this forum post, could you please pass it up the chain that IT IS NOT FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE TO ALIENATE YOUR EXISTING FAN BASE IN THE PERSUIT OF A PERCEIVED NEW MARKET. If you see that new market and would like to appeal to it, create a new product... a new IP. Don't missapropriate existing IP to fit a new mold...

Oh... and that recent "interview" of David Silverman by a drunk "yes man" at a convention comes off as being callous and hostile towards the existing DAO fanbase that share my view. Please explain that words can be emotionally violent.

***I'm glad that you've taken the opportunity to read these thoughts and hope to further disuss. Will I be shouted down by the mental mob? Probably? Will some people pick a small part of my post and pick it apart or point
out flawed or inconsistent logic in a rude or dismissive manner? Certainly. That is okay, I realize the social environment of the Bioware forums is not condusive to open debate, it's more of a walled garden of opinion. But one must do what one can right? ***

[Solid N7]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

I agree with the OP in all aspect and i pray to the Maker that this game has a LOWER metacric rating and sales worse then the original


I dont care if that kills any chance of a DA3, better to have no game then to have a hybrid rpg / action game when there are far more of those then real and true RPGs