183 réponses à ce sujet

[Lennonkun]

Evolution33 wrote...

How is pressing a button and having something happen a bad thing? IN DAO you hit a button and shuffled to an enemy that might be dead by the time you got there or got the attack off. Now when the button is pushed the move happens. I really don't get how this is a bad thing.

False. The shuffle still very much exists. Take the rogue for instance.

If you go to attack a moving enemy do you know what you'll do? Shuffle up to him endessly untill it stops moving. The shuffle does't look like a shuffle though, since it is actually the rogue animation for some weird spin acrobatic played over and over and over and over.

[apoc_reg]

BobSmith101 wrote...

DA sold because it tapped an ignored market of "oldschool nerds" and by changing it, it's just in direct competition with everything else.

Totally spot on here. Couldnt agree more.

I think its a mistake to try and make it more 'welcoming' as it sold because it wasnt!! If it hadnt sold then by all means chenge the hell out of it but it did!!!

[Thullon]

Lennonkun wrote...

Evolution33 wrote...

How is pressing a button and having something happen a bad thing? IN DAO you hit a button and shuffled to an enemy that might be dead by the time you got there or got the attack off. Now when the button is pushed the move happens. I really don't get how this is a bad thing.

False. The shuffle still very much exists. Take the rogue for instance.

If you go to attack a moving enemy do you know what you'll do? Shuffle up to him endessly untill it stops moving. The shuffle does't look like a shuffle though, since it is actually the rogue animation for some weird spin acrobatic played over and over and over and over.

You mean the moving autoattack animation?
Yeah, that means you are still attacking while moving.
The issue of the shuffle wasn't just the animation that make you look like you a gimp, it was that you could do nothing while your character tried to reposition themselves, often in very inefficient ways, every time their target took a step.
That part is gone.

[Lennonkun]

Thullon wrote...
You mean the moving autoattack animation?
Yeah, that means you are still attacking while moving.
The issue of the shuffle wasn't just the animation that make you look like you a gimp, it was that you could do nothing while your character tried to reposition themselves, often in very inefficient ways, every time their target took a step.
That part is gone.

No, theres no attack involved. Just endless spinning.

Try it yourself. In the demo that part with the few Darkspawn bolters on the ridge you can't get to unless you run up the path? Just go to attack them. You will endlessly "shuffle" into the wall".

Edit: The game can't properly path the direction to shuffle, so it mindlessly shuffles into the wall.

Modifié par Lennonkun, 28 février 2011 - 02:23 .

[Tleining]

@ Lennonkun
uh, those are two different things. The demo is an early build, so the pathfinding isn't too good. Hopefully that's fixed in the final build.
There is an attack at the end of the spinning, but you have to be within reach. Try it yourself, go after a moving enemy. Hawke will do the spinning animation, and at the end of every spin is one hit at the target.

[Lennonkun]

Tleining wrote...

@ Lennonkun
uh, those are two different things. The demo is an early build, so the pathfinding isn't too good. Hopefully that's fixed in the final build.
There is an attack at the end of the spinning, but you have to be within reach. Try it yourself, go after a moving enemy. Hawke will do the spinning animation, and at the end of every spin is one hit at the target.

"have to be within reach"

Kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

[Itkovian]

Leaving aside the entirely subjective aspects of this posts (After all, I am an old-school fan of Bioware and have yet to feel betrayed or let down by the shift. Faster combat != losing RPG elements), I do object to this:

(ie: dialogue wheel, ie: passive experience you watch rather than deciding a course or truly effecting an outcome)

That is quite simply factually incorrect. It is wrong to say that the Dialogue Wheel affects decisions or our impact on outcomes. The very PURPOSE of the Wheel is to show various responses and decisions that can be selected. There is no validity to the above claim whatsoever.

Now one could make a point that the PARAPHRASES make it more difficult to determine the consequences or our selection, but it certainly does not change the fact that the dialogue in DA2 will have just as much interactivity and decision-making as DAO.

In fact, DA2's 10-year span actually means we will be able to make bigger decisions and see the actual impact of our decisions. Making our decisions have a greater impact in the game world is one of the reasons for the new narrative approach, so that claim makes no sense.

Thank you.

Itkovian

[Elsariel]

Kudos to the OP for making a polite and well thought out post listing his disappointment with the direction of DA2. 

IT IS NOT FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE TO ALIENATE YOUR EXISTING FAN BASE IN THE PERSUIT OF A PERCEIVED NEW MARKET.

I'm sure you know this but I think it's worth it to point out that not everyone in the existing fanbase feels alienated.

[Tleining]

@ Lennonkun
how do i put this...: It's a BUG. The pathfinding isn't working, so the animation starts, even though it's impossible to reach the target.

[Lennonkun]

Tleining wrote...

@ Lennonkun
how do i put this...: It's a BUG. The pathfinding isn't working, so the animation starts, even though it's impossible to reach the target.

You'll excuse me for being highly doubtful of this, yes?

[rob_k]

Itkovian wrote...

Leaving aside the entirely subjective
aspects of this posts (After all, I am an old-school fan of Bioware and
have yet to feel betrayed or let down by the shift. Faster combat !=
losing RPG elements), I do object to this:

(ie: dialogue wheel, ie: passive experience you watch rather than deciding a course or truly effecting an outcome)

That
is quite simply factually incorrect. It is wrong to say that the
Dialogue Wheel affects decisions or our impact on outcomes. The very
PURPOSE of the Wheel is to show various responses and decisions that can
be selected. There is no validity to the above claim whatsoever.

Now
one could make a point that the PARAPHRASES make it more difficult to
determine the consequences or our selection, but it certainly does not
change the fact that the dialogue in DA2 will have just as much
interactivity and decision-making as DAO.

In fact, DA2's 10-year
span actually means we will be able to make bigger decisions and see
the actual impact of our decisions. Making our decisions have a greater
impact in the game world is one of the reasons for the new narrative
approach, so that claim makes no sense.

Thank you.

Itkovian

In addition to what Itkovian said, run the demo up. Play through to Kirkwall and then open your journal up. View the main quests, begin the playing the game again and re-open the journal so that a main quest entry has been added to the codex.

It should say something to the effect of 'decisions made during these quests dramatically affect the future of Kirkwall.'

In other words, think of the ending slides for Origins. Instead of waiting for the end, you'll get to see what your choices led to as you play.

Modifié par rob_k, 28 février 2011 - 03:15 .

[Mezinger]

I agree with much of the OP.

The speaking wheel VO protagonist doesn't bother me, I loved ME1, I even liked how it evolved for ME2 with the interrupt system. However the demo has raised concerns over the quality of the DA2 implementation, with wide ranges in the VO almost sounding like completely different characters, etc. But hopefully this is fixed in the actual game.

The hit button A or X to do something awesome, really annoys me, but we've been assured there is an auto-attack toggle to correct this in the full game.

The new art direction and the frenetic animations I don't like, the more japanese less traditional western RPG interpretation of everything I don't appreciate.

The dumbing down of Inventory or being unable to equip your companions, I think I will hate, but will have to see until the game comes out to see if they struck a better balance than the total nerf they did in ME2 when it came to inventory.

I too like many of the traditional RPG elements, inventory, loot, strategic combat etc etc. I have concerns about the removal of the intimidate and persuade skills, and non combat skills in general.

Sadly however I think that the EA/Bioware gamble for bigger market share by appealing to a broader audience will be successful for them, look at ME2, I believe it has set a precedent. Maybe not for DLC but certainly for initial sales.

The only thing that allows me to cut Bioware a break and not totally nerd rage on DA2 is that unlike ME2 right up front in their initial press releases et al they made it clear where they were taking the franchise. Day 1 there was huge outcry on these boards and the message was pretty much suck it up. Meaning what I saw in the demo didn't surprise me, but it certainly did fill me with optimism for March 8th. For me it's still a wait in see.

The type of demo released clearly was about wooing new action oriented players not reassuring the old fan base. But we knew that's where Bioware was going with this franchise as soon as they announced the sequel... if the demo makes me sad about anything it is that Awakenings wasn't a worthy expansion to Origins. IMO.

Modifié par Mezinger, 28 février 2011 - 03:31 .

[Leiermann]

You alright, this is the present and future(action games with best or worst history for the masses and to get money). Since always only there is a real role game. It is not old or new school only one. Some companies like Bioware "traslated" that essence to the videogames...and year 2011 DA2, the present, if I accept or buy this game is like to tell them: "oh i will play to your games in the future, you go by the way correct.." and this is not the way for a role game for me. DA2 maybe will be a great action game. i wish the best for it. Respect, sorry by english and good night

[JohannD]

Okay I played the demo of DA2 for only a short while and I have to say I will not be buying the game.  I am very disabppointed in the game changes especially the graphics.  I feel like I'm watching a cartoon ment for children and not a game that is supposed to be geared toward adults.

[IRMcGhee]

By "short while" did you actually go past the exaggerated sequence ? It's supposed to be unrealistic and over the top there. 

Modifié par IRMcGhee, 28 février 2011 - 09:36 .

[megaz635]

TL:DR

Its Dragon age 2 not Dragon age 1 Origins.

Just remember this everyone and this is Biowares work and they won't change it.

Modifié par megaz635, 28 février 2011 - 09:36 .

[bloodreaperfx]

JohannD wrote...

Okay I played the demo of DA2 for only a short while and I have to say I will not be buying the game.  I am very disabppointed in the game changes especially the graphics.  I feel like I'm watching a cartoon ment for children and not a game that is supposed to be geared toward adults.

I totally agree. A game where you slash people in two, where you can get laid with half your party including some steamy hot lesbian stuff as well as leaving a trail of blood on your way to championhood should be kid safe and intended for childeren simply because of a certain art style.

You sir, deserve a cookie.

Modifié par bloodreaperfx, 28 février 2011 - 09:37 .

[asaiasai]

DA2 just like DAO is a numbers game, the mechanic no matter how pretied up it is is nothing but a cover for the background dice roll mechanic. You hit the enemy, and you hit the enemy for how much is all determined by the hidden dice roll which takes into account several variables like stats class etc. With the combat in DA2 imho it is similar to having to fix something on the second floor but your tools are on the first. So you go up stairs and see that you need a phillips head screw driver, so you go down stairs by sliding down the bannister, you grab the tool and climb the stairs. You use the screw driver but see you need a pair of pliers next, so this time you jump down the stairs two at a time, and then climb back up the stairs.

In the end it is all just costumery, a bunch of busy animations that really add little to combat because in the end it is still dependant upon the original set of numbers. Sure it looks good but combat is still really the same as it was just more calories expended by all the unnecessary jumping around. It is all designed like flashing lights, bells and whistles at a local carnival game to draw the eye, to call you over with the appearance of something spectacular happening when in the end it is just 3 plastic rings and a bunch of coke bottles.

Unecessary effort expended on an unecesary aspect of the game that was not really broken. It is not a game breaker but it is not really special either. I still am more concerned with the tactics, the dice rolls, the hidden apects of combat that did not change because in the end it is still all about the numbers, and nothing else really matters.

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 01 mars 2011 - 06:46 .

[AtreiyaN7]

Ah yes, and I'm sure that the game wlll select the dialogue by itself, since according to you, it's a passive experience in which we presumably don't get to make any choices. Also, I see negative posts every day that don't get locked down. I must admit though, the "walled off garden" thing at least made me lol.

[AlanC9]

asaiasai wrote...

Unecessary effort expended on an unecesary aspect of the game that was not really broken. It is not a game breaker but it is not really special either. I still am more concerned with the tactics, the dice rolls, the hidden apects of combat that did not change because in the end it is still all about the numbers, and nothing else really matters.  

So it's just a waste of developer time which you'd rather see spent elsewhere. Fair enough. As one of the few defenders of NWN2's minimalist combat animations, I'm hardly going to disagree.

But there are a lot of folks who like that sort of thing, and I'm hardly upset with Bio for catering to them a bit even if I personally don't give a damn about the animations.

[AlanC9]

Mezinger wrote...
The only thing that allows me to cut Bioware a break and not totally nerd rage on DA2 is that unlike ME2 right up front in their initial press releases et al they made it clear where they were taking the franchise. Day 1 there was huge outcry on these boards and the message was pretty much suck it up.

"Unlike ME2"? Christina Norman told us how equipment was going to work before ME2 shipped. I'm pretty sure we were talking about it on the forum.

[Typical Forum Sycophant]

WE WANT TO MASH BUTTONS AND WATCH STUFF EXPLODE IN AN ORGY OF BLOOD!!!

We DO NOT want to sit around reading dialogue and conversing like WOMEN!


amidoinitright?

[Sylvius the Mad]

BobSmith101 wrote...

AlexJK wrote...

By that logic, so is posting with a list of complaints which you know full well Bioware won't change as the game is due out in less than 2 weeks. Just sayin.

I have very little sympathy for people who claim to hate the game that much but will still play it.

Why?  They might play it for other reasons.  I, for example, played ME2 even though I fully expected to dislike it, because I wanted to be able to have informed opinions regarding it when discussing its features in places like this.

Not every game is played for enjoyment.

[asaiasai]

AlanC9 wrote...

asaiasai wrote...

Unecessary effort expended on an unecesary aspect of the game that was not really broken. It is not a game breaker but it is not really special either. I still am more concerned with the tactics, the dice rolls, the hidden apects of combat that did not change because in the end it is still all about the numbers, and nothing else really matters.  

So it's just a waste of developer time which you'd rather see spent elsewhere. Fair enough. As one of the few defenders of NWN2's minimalist combat animations, I'm hardly going to disagree.

But there are a lot of folks who like that sort of thing, and I'm hardly upset with Bio for catering to them a bit even if I personally don't give a damn about the animations.

I appreciate a difference of opinion and do understand that Bioware tried to make the game more flashy, it is not a complaint, more an observation. Just more or less to point out how silly it really is. In the end it is still all about those numbers, how you gussy it up is somewhat irrelevant, i was just not expecting a Honk Kong chop suey flick like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, which do not get me wrong was visually spectacular, but DA2 is not. It is like Las Vegas which is beautyful at dark, the lights, the people, the sounds it is almost overwhelming, but come 10:30 in the morning you roll out of the rack hungover, broke and you see the trash in the gutter and the vomit on the sidewalk and wonder if this is the same place you were last night. The darkness, the shadows, all conspire to hide the grit of the city, just like the bouncing and flying around in combat hides the background mechanics.

Asai

[Valmarn]

Having read the original post, in its entirety, and having never read any other of sycophantichallenger's posts (which others seem to have found disagreeable), I have to say that I share your sentiment.

When I saw the changes that were made from Dragon: Age Origins, and found them to be unpalatable, I canceled my Dragon Age 2 pre-order, without a second thought.

The elimination of dwarves and elves, as playable races, was a bit of a damper, but I was more than willing to look past that. Unfortunately, I found it too difficult to look past just about everything else, from the Mass Effect-esque dialog wheel and "framed narrative" to the flashy, lightning-quick combat moves and the comical Skeletor-looking Darkspawn.

(Don't get me wrong: I like the dialog wheel for Mass Effect, but it's not something that I prefer for a classical RPG, which is what I found in Dragon Age: Origins.)

I can honestly say that, after playing through the Dragon Age 2 demo, I was genuinely relieved that I had canceled my pre-order.

Hopefully, BioWare will release a toolset for DA 2, so that there might be some hope of some mods that will tone down the crack-induced combat moves, the teleportation backstabs. and reskin of the Skeletor Darkspawn. At the very least, maybe a mod that can wipe that ridiculous blood smeer on Hawke's nose...if it isn't optional in the game.

lol... I just saw a TV ad for Dragon Age 2, for the first time, just as I was typing this post.

Modifié par Valmarn, 01 mars 2011 - 08:36 .