127 réponses à ce sujet

[Keltoris]

It's no KotOR.

But then, what the hell besides KotOR is.


Only Developer besides Bioware to get me emotionally worked up was Bungie. And that was rage for the "ending" of Halo 3 being so very.... useless.

[marshalleck]

Eh, it was never really my intent to single you out, Cheez. I was just hating on the BSN tendency to summarily trash all JRPGs based on the fact that they are Japanese RPGs, as if by virtue of being Japanese the writers are unable to tell wonderful stories.

Modifié par marshalleck, 27 février 2011 - 11:52 .

[marshalleck]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I don't think video games can ever be art. If you want a story it can be told better in a novel or a film. If you want something pretty to look at it can be done better with a picture, a drawing, a painting, a sculpture, or a film reel. If you want something to listen to you have music.

When games try to be "art" all they're doing is trying to mimic aspects of different media. However those things belong to those other media. The thing that makes games unique is user interaction and interaction in that way isn't art. It doesn't express anything.

I agree with Roger Ebert.

I'd disagree with this. I consider Braid art, and it does something that any other media would be incapable of. 

[AdmiralCheez]

marshalleck wrote...

Eh, it was never really my intent to single you out. I was just hating on the BSN tendency to summarily trash all JRPGs based on the fact that they are Japanese RPGs, as if by virtue of being Japanese the writers are unable to tell wonderful stories.

Stereotypes, stereotypes... *shakes head*

[Nodscouter]

Why is art restricted to things you can look at or hear exactly? In my mind, there's alot of things that are art. Music, philosophy, paintings, movies and yes, even video games. I consider ME to be a prime example of that. It's all about the definition of art really, and art basically has no firm definition except for your personal opinion.

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I don't think video games can ever be art. If you want a story it can be told better in a novel or a film. If you want something pretty to look at it can be done better with a picture, a drawing, a painting, a sculpture, or a film reel. If you want something to listen to you have music.

When games try to be "art" all they're doing is trying to mimic aspects of different media. However those things belong to those other media. The thing that makes games unique is user interaction and interaction in that way isn't art. It doesn't express anything.

I agree with Roger Ebert.

Way to disrepect all the work that goes into making a game nowadays, bro.

If being an actor makes you an artist, if writing a story makes you an artist, if drawing pictures makes you an artist, if composing music makes you an artist, then why isn't a medium that incorporates all of these art?

Because you can shoot things in them?  Because you play them for fun?

I go to art museums for fun sometimes....

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 27 février 2011 - 11:59 .

[LiquidGrape]

I have to say, nothing that is actually in either Mass Effect has affected me on an emotional level. In fact, I think the games themselves are rather cold.
What makes me come back for more is, I think, what I project onto the characters.

Dragon Age was a lot more accomplished in this sense, as there was more time dedicated to actually shaping tangible relationships to the characters you encountered.

[jeweledleah]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I don't think video games can ever be art. If you want a story it can be told better in a novel or a film. If you want something pretty to look at it can be done better with a picture, a drawing, a painting, a sculpture, or a film reel. If you want something to listen to you have music.

When games try to be "art" all they're doing is trying to mimic aspects of different media. However those things belong to those other media. The thing that makes games unique is user interaction and interaction in that way isn't art. It doesn't express anything.

I agree with Roger Ebert.

I respectfuly disagree.  video games combine so many different mediums and artistic expression, I suppose it could be difficult to pin down just what sort of art they are - mixed media I suppose, but when you look at the citadel, when you take it all in the first time?  its art.  when you get your first look of the forests and cities and all the interactions between characters in LOTRO - its art, when you listen to music that seemlessly supports the story you are moving through - its art, and I can go on and on and on.

its most definitely more of an art form then some of the crap I've seen in modern galleries. 

Video games tell stories, they invoke emotions, they provoke you and really good ones make you think and concider. Its not mimicking of different aspects of media, its incorporating them.

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

On my most recent play through of Dragon Age Origins, I've been skipping some dialogues.  I've played through ME2 more times than I have DA, but I never ever skip.  Although I do wish I could skip the opening scene if I don't like how my Shepard looks.  "Oops!  HIs chin is too weak.  Better try again in another 20 minutes, I guess."

[AdmiralCheez]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Dragon Age was a lot more accomplished in this sense, as there was more time dedicated to actually shaping tangible relationships to the characters you encountered.

This is one thing I wish could be improved.  Mass Effect's romances had too much of a "one-night-stand" feeling.  Moreso in ME2, perhaps, but I wouldn't call ME1's too satisfying, either.

Also, the lack of bromance makes me sad.  Sometimes, friendships can be just as powerful.

[jeweledleah]

Gyroscopic_Trout wrote...

On my most recent play through of Dragon Age Origins, I've been skipping some dialogues.  I've played through ME2 more times than I have DA, but I never ever skip.  Although I do wish I could skip the opening scene if I don't like how my Shepard looks.  "Oops!  HIs chin is too weak.  Better try again in another 20 minutes, I guess."

cross posting from femshep support thread - your sound effects will be weird in the normandy part, but it lets you skip most of the intro (except for the dialogues)

Go to your ME2 directory, look for folder with movies.

Rename/relocate those files:

BWLogo
ME2_006_ON_AntiGlamour2
ME2_Opening_SunMid_INT (or any other languauge version you're using)
ME_EAsig_720p_v2_raw
NumberReel
Opening_End_Seq
Opening_End_SeqFM
Opening_Seq_INT (or any other languauge version you're using)
ProNor_Pod2
ProNor_Shepard_Rebuilt
ProNorEscape
ProNorEscapeAsh
ProNorEscapeKaid

[AdmiralCheez]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Everything I said went right over your head. My fault, perhaps.

Those things you pointed out? None of those things are "game". They are all artistic, but they are not part of what makes the game a game. If games are to be art then it needs to be expressed in gameplay. Not the music. Not the writing. Not the grahpics. Not the story telling.

You could say the same about movies--they're just pictures combined with storytelling combined with music combined with acting.

Games just add a new element--audience interaction.  You are no longer the observer.

[jeweledleah]

Saphra Deden wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I respectfuly disagree.  video games combine so many different mediums and artistic expression, I suppose it could be difficult to pin down just what sort of art they are - mixed media I suppose, but when you look at the citadel, when you take it all in the first time?  its art.  when you get your first look of the forests and cities and all the interactions between characters in LOTRO - its art, when you listen to music that seemlessly supports the story you are moving through - its art, and I can go on and on and on.

Everything I said went right over your head. My fault, perhaps.

Those things you pointed out? None of those things are "game". They are all artistic, but they are not part of what makes the game a game. If games are to be art then it needs to be expressed in gameplay. Not the music. Not the writing. Not the grahpics. Not the story telling.

and again, I respectfuly disagree.  art is art, you cannot just discard the components and say - you have to be "artistic"  only in this aspect of it and everything else doesn't count.

[Nodscouter]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

Dragon Age was a lot more accomplished in this sense, as there was more time dedicated to actually shaping tangible relationships to the characters you encountered.

This is one thing I wish could be improved.  Mass Effect's romances had too much of a "one-night-stand" feeling.  Moreso in ME2, perhaps, but I wouldn't call ME1's too satisfying, either.

Also, the lack of bromance makes me sad.  Sometimes, friendships can be just as powerful.

Personally,  I thought ME2 had better romances than ME1. But whatever. The one thing I really would've wanted from ME2 in regards to story is that crewmates should have some opinion on the other crewmates. For example, Garrus and Tali should have something, there's some tension between Jacob and Thane that could've been used, I can't believe Grunt would get along completely well with Mordin and so on...

[LiquidGrape]

Saphra Deden wrote...

If games are to be art then it needs to be expressed in gameplay. Not the music. Not the writing. Not the grahpics. Not the story telling.

Very well.
In Mass Effect 2, I can manipulate an avatar of my design to take three steps in the direction of my choosing.
There. I have expressed a desire, which the game translated into action.
The inherent strength, potential and uniqueness of the form has been proven.

Modifié par LiquidGrape, 28 février 2011 - 12:09 .

[marshalleck]

Saphra Deden wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I respectfuly disagree.  video games combine so many different mediums and artistic expression, I suppose it could be difficult to pin down just what sort of art they are - mixed media I suppose, but when you look at the citadel, when you take it all in the first time?  its art.  when you get your first look of the forests and cities and all the interactions between characters in LOTRO - its art, when you listen to music that seemlessly supports the story you are moving through - its art, and I can go on and on and on.

Everything I said went right over your head. My fault, perhaps.

Those things you pointed out? None of those things are "game". They are all artistic, but they are not part of what makes the game a game. If games are to be art then it needs to be expressed in gameplay. Not the music. Not the writing. Not the grahpics. Not the story telling.

Again, I point to Braid. It challenges preconceptions and forces the player to think in new, unconventional non-linear ways. All the different ways there are to manipulate time, undermine cause and effect, and really break out of standard day to day procedural thinking and problem solving is an experience that no other media is capable of, because it's all directed by the players themselves. They're immersed and made the crucial agent in it all, rather than just an idle observer.

[AdmiralCheez]

Nodscouter wrote...

Personally,  I thought ME2 had better romances than ME1. But whatever. The one thing I really would've wanted from ME2 in regards to story is that crewmates should have some opinion on the other crewmates. For example, Garrus and Tali should have something, there's some tension between Jacob and Thane that could've been used, I can't believe Grunt would get along completely well with Mordin and so on...

Yeah, that, too.

[Iakus]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Those things you pointed out? None of those things are "game". They are all artistic, but they are not part of what makes the game a game. If games are to be art then it needs to be expressed in gameplay. Not the music. Not the writing. Not the grahpics. Not the story telling.

In which case, what is it that makes a film "art"?  Is it the acting?  The directing?  The cinemetography?  The script?  The set pieces?  The special effects?  I'd say it's all of the above (and more), combined into a single cohesive whole.

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Everything I said went right over your head. My fault, perhaps.

Those things you pointed out? None of those things are "game". They are all artistic, but they are not part of what makes the game a game. If games are to be art then it needs to be expressed in gameplay. Not the music. Not the writing. Not the grahpics. Not the story telling.

Gameplay is a medium, nothing more.  Art is found in the medium's ability to convey or invoke emotions and ideas, or at least that's how I see it.  With all due respect to you and the epic troll that is Roger Ebert, are you really willing to say that anyone who's ever been emotionally invested in the story of a video game is wrong?

[Nodscouter]

Same with films. Same with alot of music I like. You sir, is most likely a troll.

Modifié par Nodscouter, 28 février 2011 - 12:24 .