125 réponses à ce sujet

[Xyan]

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

Xyan wrote...

I also disagree with the way Duncan handled it. Since you do not just recruit anyone, He could have made the recruit swore an vow of secrecy or something and then tell the truth of the joining. To let the recruits know the full truth only during the ritual can only be classify as "false advertising". In our world, the lawyers will be all over them.

It just seems.. inhumane...

That's.. incredibly naïve. "Vow of secrecy"? 

Err.. and what good would something like that do? "Yeah, yeah, I vow! (At least until I get out of your sight, then I'm going to spread the word all over!)"

Exactly.. I'm RP-ing here. My character definitely left the Alienage a very naive simple "kid". And he was horribly shock by what Duncan did. And yet he became one. The irony is one weighty issue on his mind as he continue his adventure.

[Poubo]

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

Xyan wrote...

I also disagree with the way Duncan handled it. Since you do not just recruit anyone, He could have made the recruit swore an vow of secrecy or something and then tell the truth of the joining. To let the recruits know the full truth only during the ritual can only be classify as "false advertising". In our world, the lawyers will be all over them.

It just seems.. inhumane...

That's.. incredibly naïve. "Vow of secrecy"? 

Err.. and what good would something like that do? "Yeah, yeah, I vow! (At least until I get out of your sight, then I'm going to spread the word all over!)"

lol.. "I promise i wont ser, please don't kill me!"

Duncan: "oh go on then, ill let you go" *ruffles hair*

[Poubo]

Xyan wrote...

Zenthar Aseth wrote...

Xyan wrote...

I also disagree with the way Duncan handled it. Since you do not just recruit anyone, He could have made the recruit swore an vow of secrecy or something and then tell the truth of the joining. To let the recruits know the full truth only during the ritual can only be classify as "false advertising". In our world, the lawyers will be all over them.

It just seems.. inhumane...

That's.. incredibly naïve. "Vow of secrecy"? 

Err.. and what good would something like that do? "Yeah, yeah, I vow! (At least until I get out of your sight, then I'm going to spread the word all over!)"

Exactly.. I'm RP-ing here. My character definitely left the Alienage a very naive simple "kid". And he was horribly shock by what Duncan did. And yet he became one. The irony is one weighty issue on his mind as he continue his adventure.

in all honesty, how can a kid growing up in the alienage be that naive? especially if you're playing off your origin story...

[Never]

I was pretty into the story emotionally already at this point (I'm also preggers, so at some points way TOO emotionally involved), but I don't think I even blinked when Jory was killed. It seemed completely logical and necessary given the situation.

[Krenmu]

Because stealing, murdering, and everything with elves..is much different than with Humans.

[The Angry One]

I get the impression that forcing one to drink the blood would be as good as killing them, there would seem to be some degree of mental preparation involved and even then people tend to die.

Force feeding Jory while he lay there blubbering would be futile, not to mention I think the whole point of the ritual is for the recruits to prove that they are willing to do anything in order to defeat the darkspawn.



Yeah they could've tried to reason with Jory.. but to what end? He's proven he's a liability, and at that point if Duncan doesn't act then Jory either runs away yelling "THEY MAKE YOU DRINK DARKSPAWN BLOOD, AIIIEEEE!!!" or could potentially seriously hurt Duncan, Alistair or you.



I liked Jory, but it's clear he tried to join the Grey Wardens for the wrong reasons. He had it in his head that being recruited was all it took. He refused to consider having to abandon his wife and child. He didn't deserve his fate, but he made the wrong choices, and Duncan had to do what he had to do and took no pleasure from it.

[Xyan]

Poubo wrote...

in all honesty, how can a kid growing up in the alienage be that naive? especially if you're playing off your origin story...

With Soris and Shaini and the regular folks going all excited and uncomfortable over the violence by Vaughan, why should the PC be any different...

[MacAttack001]

When I hear words like...dark and gritty...I have a fair idea as what to expect. DAO does not disappoint in their interpretation of what those words stand for. Let's face it Duncan (and even Alister) didn't let us in on all the details about being a Grey Warden. Duncan goes around conscripting people...you don't really have a choice about it.



Are you playing an evil character?



IMO...you are a playing a character that understands that the real world is messy and that you have to be ruthless to defeat the darkspawn.



And lets be honest...if Duncan wouldn't have gutted Jory then we would have. What a whiner! I wanted to slap him after his first line. 8-)

[Paxsis]

DSEButchr wrote...

Duncan murders Jory.  Your character is forced to join a murderer and like it.  Your not even given the choice about how you feel about it.

I am curious if Bioware intended on forcing the player to be evil in their game.  I have no desire to play an evil character.  The idea was a heroic character saving something.  If you can't be good and do it, why play the game at all.

Frankly I'd like my money back.  You have a beautiful game to look at with absolutely no morals what so ever.

If later in the story we get to put Duncan on trial for murder and see him put in a dungeon forever or hung that might redeem the story a bit.  So far it's upset me to the point I find it hard to continue playing.

...Geez you're soft. Duncan kills him because the Joining is secret for a reason, and they can't have the secret slip out. Simple as that.

I mean, how do you know the Darkspawn are truly evil? Maybe you kill some darkspawn that has a wife and seven children back home, and when he can no longer sustain them, they all starve and die slow, horrible deaths. How does that make you feel? How would it make you feel if you got the Blight-Queller achievement, and made thousands of families suffer and die slowly and horribly? You wicked murderer...

[Morte]

You're about as likely to get to the bottom of "there are no evil spells, just evil mages" as "there are no dangerous guns, just dangerous people". Especially on the internet.

[javierabegazo]

mynameisdanza wrote...

I was pretty into the story emotionally already at this point (I'm also preggers, so at some points way TOO emotionally involved), but I don't think I even blinked when Jory was killed. It seemed completely logical and necessary given the situation.

Same here, I can't believe someone would even be bothered by that...sheesh, go watch teletubbies or play Mario. I"m curious as to which King the OP chose for Orzammar, choosing a weak king but "he's a nice guy" ruins the entire kingdom and choosing "the evil tyrant" saves the kingdom, improves economy. I'm at this dilemma right now but I'm not going to write Bioware that I want my money back just because there's no happy-easy-go-lucky ending where every one is saved, the evil-doers vanquished and righteousness prevails. You might make a fantastic soldier for Bush, but it's time to wake up, when the scope is this huge, sacrifices are made.

[TheChimes]

Morte wrote...

You're about as likely to get to the bottom of "there are no evil spells, just evil mages" as "there are no dangerous guns, just dangerous people". Especially on the internet.

well magic and guns are just tools, tools cannot be good nor evil, its the person using those tool that decides if they will be used for good or evil.  But as people have said, Duncan defended himself, if jory had any brains he would have at least drank the blood at least that way he had a chance to live instead of going up against a seasoned Grey Warden

Modifié par TheChimes, 15 novembre 2009 - 03:11 .

[Fudzie]

The only thing that pissed me off about that scene was the fact that Daveth could have been a cool companion.



Hell, even Jory could have been, if just for the fact you'd need to constantly battle with his cowardice.

[Caprasia]

PC: "I still can't believe you killed Ser Jory"

Duncan: "Jory was warned there was no turning back, as were you all. When he went for his blade, however, he left me no choice, It brought me no pleasure to end his life. The Blight demands sacrifices from us all. Thankfully, you stand here as proof that they are not all made in vain."

I may be getting hold of the wrong end of the stick here but that signifies to me at least that the option of reasoning with Jory was indeed there. Jory ended that option by drawing his weapon.

Like any RPG.. or at least those made by Bioware at any rate... explanations for what the characters do in them can usually be found, the secret is to take the time to ask them. I suspect in the OP's case that didn't happen.

Modifié par Caprasia, 15 novembre 2009 - 03:17 .

[Krenmu]

thats not even counting the fact that Jory not only drew his sword..but swung at Duncan as well.

[Walina]

DSEButchr wrote...

Duncan murders Jory.  Your character is forced to join a murderer and like it.  Your not even given the choice about how you feel about it.

I am curious if Bioware intended on forcing the player to be evil in their game.  I have no desire to play an evil character.  The idea was a heroic character saving something.  If you can't be good and do it, why play the game at all.

Frankly I'd like my money back.  You have a beautiful game to look at with absolutely no morals what so ever.

If later in the story we get to put Duncan on trial for murder and see him put in a dungeon forever or hung that might redeem the story a bit.  So far it's upset me to the point I find it hard to continue playing.

Well, if you played human noble, you will hate Duncan but as a mage it was a bit different since you don't have a choice : you can't return to the circle, so you've to become a grey warden to not die. It's about survival when you become a grey warden not because you choosed it.

Modifié par Walina, 15 novembre 2009 - 03:35 .

[JGray]

I suspect Duncan would have killed Jory, sword drawn or not. Its a matter of cold practicality. People would look very, very differently at the Wardens if they knew the truth about them. That to fight the taint they take it into themselves. That the people they laud as heroes are a step closer to being darkspawn than most.



That secret can't get out. Jory knew. If he wasn't joining he had to die to protect the greater good because if the Grey Wardens can't be trusted by the people, the Grey Wardens can't do their job. And if they can't do their job, the Blight wins.



Not fun. My human noble agreed with the call and drank willingly. My mage will, I suspect, drink because she doesn't want to be next. You decide how your characters motivations fit the story there.

[Aldandil]

It should also be added that the Grey Wardens aren't really about being morally righteous. They're only about stopping the Blight, so if you were expecting anything else from them, I suppose that's when the Wardens would go Chris Priestly on us and say "Suck it up,Princess, cuz that's how we roll". However, your character is free to feel however s/he wants about it, but you are forced to go through with it. It's consistent with most types of characters to go through with a ritual rather than being killed, but you can feel whatever you like about it.

[Walina]

I agree, that's why I wish there is an ending where you choose to change that and not hide thingsabout the ritual, less pain in my opinion but maybe less recruits too :\\

[JGray]

I do wonder if BioWare shouldn't have added an ending where you could refuse to drink and get sent to the front lines to fight with the army. And die. Horribly.

[Visenya]

Try to view Jory as a deserter. In war deserters get executed.

I was partly shocked with that scene too but when you think of what's at stake and that Jory drew his sword first, you have to agree with Duncan's actions. Also if Jory ran away with Gray Wardens' dark secret of Joining and revealed it to the world, there would be probably less recruits in the future because of it. Duncan had no choice.

[Walina]

Yes, in real life deserter are usually killed or punished (depend in wich country he live).

[KnightofPhoenix]

Jory was told that there was no turning back and he was the one who took his sword out. He got what was coming for him.

[Lil-Vinny29]

Why not say that Daveth got poisoned and thats murder as well? *sighs*

Some cant just enjoy the game as it is really and needs to bring some pointless facts. Go figure

Modifié par Lil-Vinny29, 15 novembre 2009 - 04:32 .

[Alphidius]

They gave them chances to pull out before the Joining...

That's why there's all those risky tasks and such with the secrecy and all...

Once the ceremony began, there was no turning back...