90 réponses à ce sujet

[merrick97]

I probably missed something obvious but upon replaying ME1 again I noticed a few things that seem to be contridicted in ME2.

It was established in ME1 that the Reapers are trapped in dark space until someone can open the relay in the Citadel. The reapers intended for this to be the keepers but that didnt happen due to evolution.  In ME1 that person was obviously Saren who was stopped by Shepard.

However in ME2 it is never clear how the Reapers planned to use the Collectors to solve the problem of being trapped in dark space. Did they intend for the collectors to attack the citadel and open the relays themselves? 

Also it was said in ME1 that sovereign was the only reaper left behind so he could use the keepers to open the citadel relay. Given that he was destroyed how were the reapers even able to recruit the collectors??!! SHouldn't they have been stuck in dark space?!!

[Phaedon]

The Collectors built a Reaper that would replace Sovereign.

[merrick97]

Also, when you answer my question can you please tell me where it is in mentioned in ME2 so I can be sure to play much closer attention to that dialogue when I do my next playthrough.

[merrick97]

Phaedon wrote...

The Collectors built a Reaper that would replace Sovereign.

Still the collectors would have had to know how to build a reaper and the reapers are the only one who could have told them.

[Phaedon]

merrick97 wrote...
Still the collectors would have had to know how to build a reaper and the reapers are the only one who could have told them.

Harbinger is a Reaper, not a Collector. He controls the Collector General and issues orders concerning the construction of the human Reaper.

[JRCHOharry]

EDIT: What Phaedon said ^

Modifié par JRCHOharry, 27 février 2011 - 08:40 .

[ME_Fan]

Reapers can control people from dark space, read 'Retribution'.

[nevar00]

The Reapers weren't "trapped", they just have a REALLY long flight ahead of them. With the Citadel Relay activated, they would've just appeared in the middle of the Galactic government and a large portion of the fleet and just taken all them out in one surprise attack. During the whole ME 2 stuff I always assumed they were on their way... why would they trap themselves in 'dark space'? That wouldn't make sense.

[Phaedon]

nevar00 wrote...they just have a REALLY long flight ahead of them.  

Maybe, maybe not. It will take them some time, but we don't know what speed they are travelling at. They can be travelling at any speed that is more than 299 792 458 m / s. Maybe the Citadel Relay wasn't used to buy them time, necessarily, but to transfer them to a strategic position.

Modifié par Phaedon, 27 février 2011 - 08:46 .

[merrick97]

nevar00 wrote...

The Reapers weren't "trapped", they just have a REALLY long flight ahead of them. With the Citadel Relay activated, they would've just appeared in the middle of the Galactic government and a large portion of the fleet and just taken all them out in one surprise attack. During the whole ME 2 stuff I always assumed they were on their way... why would they trap themselves in 'dark space'? That wouldn't make sense.

If they were "on their way" they wouldn't have needed Sovereign or Saren in the first place. 

I am aware the Harbinger was a reaper, but how did he get with the collectors?  Sovereign was supposed to be the one and only. 

I dont want assumptions but answers.  

[marshalleck]

Despite what Phaedon may wish was in the game, the Collectors' motives and intent were never revealed. We have no idea why they were building a giant Space Terminator, nor what they planned to do with it. We don't even know how they planned to finish it, considering there are not enough humans in the Terminus Systems and it's incredibly unlikely their cruiser would be able to survive open conflict with a battalion of Systems Alliance ships in Systems Alliance space, were they to move on to more populated, established, and defended human colonies. And Earth itself via Arcturus Station and its Systems Alliance Fifth Fleet would be suicide for them. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 27 février 2011 - 08:49 .

[Moiaussi]

merrick97 wrote...

I probably missed something obvious but upon replaying ME1 again I noticed a few things that seem to be contridicted in ME2.

It was established in ME1 that the Reapers are trapped in dark space until someone can open the relay in the Citadel. The reapers intended for this to be the keepers but that didnt happen due to evolution.  In ME1 that person was obviously Saren who was stopped by Shepard.

However in ME2 it is never clear how the Reapers planned to use the Collectors to solve the problem of being trapped in dark space. Did they intend for the collectors to attack the citadel and open the relays themselves? 

Also it was said in ME1 that sovereign was the only reaper left behind so he could use the keepers to open the citadel relay. Given that he was destroyed how were the reapers even able to recruit the collectors??!! SHouldn't they have been stuck in dark space?!!

You missed the fact that the Collectors were modified Protheans, and therefore already 'recruited.' The plan seems to have been that the Collectors would build a new reaper, presumably to take over Sovereign's duties. Meanwhile, though, they seem to be taking an alternate approach. The whole citadel thing was primarily to gain the element of suprise and take out command control simultaneously, isolating their prey

That doesn't mean they didn't have other ways in, just that their preferrred 'safe' method is ruled out.

[DeathScepter]

by having a powerful connection between the Collector General and the Harbinger. Possiblity thru a wormhole. Given the Reaper intelligence, they have several solid back up plans to enter the galaxy if the Vanguard failed to open the Citadel Mass Relay.

Their plan A: having a Vanguard like Sovergian to open the Citadel Mass Relay when it is time.So to have a powerful sneak attack and learning ideal attack vectors for each cycle.


Plan B: have a slave race build another one to do plan A.

Plan C: Using hidden wormholes by dark energy for another route of attack.

Side Note: I do think there was always a collector species per cycle but not always the protheans retrofited into Collectors.

[Iakus]

I just wonder how Harbringer thought building another Reaper was going to accomplish anything.  Sovereign assault on the Citadel failed with every advantage going for him.  Even if they managed to harvest enough humans without triggering a war with the Alliance/Citadel, what was it going to do, punch the Citadel?

Now if there was another dark space relay out there somewhere that they needed a Reaper to activate, that would be a deifferent story.  Of course the question then becomes "Why didn't Sovereign use that one to begin with?"

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...

Despite what Phaedon may wish was in the game,

kay

Harbinger wrote...
We will have to find another way

Harbinger tweeted...
Sup, me and my boys (what, the Reapers are acting like 15 year olds throughout the series, with their grudges and general immaturity) are travelling towards the Milky Way, while Joker is showing some stuff to Shepard

Yeah.

Modifié par Phaedon, 27 février 2011 - 08:54 .

[merrick97]

Moiaussi wrote...

merrick97 wrote...

I probably missed something obvious but upon replaying ME1 again I noticed a few things that seem to be contridicted in ME2.

It was established in ME1 that the Reapers are trapped in dark space until someone can open the relay in the Citadel. The reapers intended for this to be the keepers but that didnt happen due to evolution.  In ME1 that person was obviously Saren who was stopped by Shepard.

However in ME2 it is never clear how the Reapers planned to use the Collectors to solve the problem of being trapped in dark space. Did they intend for the collectors to attack the citadel and open the relays themselves? 

Also it was said in ME1 that sovereign was the only reaper left behind so he could use the keepers to open the citadel relay. Given that he was destroyed how were the reapers even able to recruit the collectors??!! SHouldn't they have been stuck in dark space?!!

You missed the fact that the Collectors were modified Protheans, and therefore already 'recruited.' The plan seems to have been that the Collectors would build a new reaper, presumably to take over Sovereign's duties. Meanwhile, though, they seem to be taking an alternate approach. The whole citadel thing was primarily to gain the element of suprise and take out command control simultaneously, isolating their prey

That doesn't mean they didn't have other ways in, just that their preferrred 'safe' method is ruled out.

I didn't miss the fact that the Collectors were modified Protheans, but I failed to consider that possibility that the collectors were programmed from the start to do the Reapers bidding.

Plan A was that the keepers would open the relay, but that didnt happen

Plan B was Sovereign would recruit someone to open it for them. Saren ended up being that person.

Plan C I guess was the Collectors would be reawakened in the death of Sovereign.

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Despite what Phaedon may wish was in the game,

kay

Harbinger wrote...
We will have to find another way

Harbinger tweeted...
Sup, me and my boys (what, the Reapers are acting like 15 year olds throughout the series, with their grudges and general immaturity) are travelling towards the Milky Way, while Joker is showing some stuff to Shepard

Yeah.

Umm yeah yourself. How about posting the in-game explanation of what the Collectors were up to? How do you know the Space Terminator was intended to replace Sovereign? 

[DeathScepter]

Mainly due to the Citadel Station has the most information about the current cycle. So having a powerful sneak attack at the heart of the government while gaining information on the cycle is critical. And they would be in a position of Strength during the invasion.

Speculation: I do think that the Harbinger's plan for the human reaper to be more reinforced than Sovereign was but we all know that Cerberus thru Shepard defeats the fetus Human Reaper.

Basicly what we saw of the Human Reaper, it was a fetus at best if not a embryo verison of a Reaper baby. So a Incomplete core. No outer shell that we are familar with, aka the Iconic Reaper shell.

The Council Species and the Alliance are weaken despite kicking Soveregin's ass.

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
Umm yeah yourself. How about posting the in-game explanation of what the Collectors were up to? How do you know the Space Terminator was intended to replace Sovereign? 

The Reapers want a way into the galaxy, that would be provided if the Human Reaper was completed. What Sovereign was set to do was to do that. However, the Human Reaper is completely irrelevant.



Let's call it a plot hole.

Or better yet, a retcon.


Yeah, retcon sounds good.

[nevar00]

merrick97 wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

The Reapers weren't "trapped", they just have a REALLY long flight ahead of them. With the Citadel Relay activated, they would've just appeared in the middle of the Galactic government and a large portion of the fleet and just taken all them out in one surprise attack. During the whole ME 2 stuff I always assumed they were on their way... why would they trap themselves in 'dark space'? That wouldn't make sense.

If they were "on their way" they wouldn't have needed Sovereign or Saren in the first place. 

I am aware the Harbinger was a reaper, but how did he get with the collectors?  Sovereign was supposed to be the one and only. 

I dont want assumptions but answers.  

Saren and Sovereign were only there to give them a big advantage by having the Reapers suddenly teleport to the Citadel and take out the entire galactic government and plenty of warships. 

They weren't trapped in dark space, and as others have said the Reapers can control people from where ever they are (as they do in one of the books).

[marshalleck]

Right. I don't know why you can't just admit that you were speaking rather hastily with this business of replacing Sovereign. Nowhere is it ever mentioned in the game why the Collectors are building a Space Terminator, nor what they intended to do with it. That doesn't make it a plot hole, it just makes their motives unexplained.

A plot hole is more like why does the crew of the ship in Jacob's loyalty mission have thermal clip weapons and mechs when both thermal clip weapons and mechs came into use after their ship crashed and was isolated from the rest of the galaxy. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 27 février 2011 - 09:09 .

[Phaedon]

merrick97 wrote...
If they were "on their way" they wouldn't have needed Sovereign or Saren in the first place. 

I am aware the Harbinger was a reaper, but how did he get with the collectors?  Sovereign was supposed to be the one and only. 

I dont want assumptions but answers.  

'Get with'? The Collectors are modified Protheans, and Harbinger was issuing them orders from dark space. 

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...

Right. I don't know why you can't just admit that you were speaking rather hastily with this business of replacing Sovereign. Nowhere is it ever mentioned in the game why the Collectors are building a Space Terminator, nor what they intended to do with it. That doesn't make it a plot hole, it just makes their motives unexplained.

No, I didn't assume this, I concluded to this when I finished the game the first time,the ending didn't hint to it, it stated it:

The Reapers want a way into the galaxy, that would be provided if the Human Reaper was completed. What Sovereign was set to do was to do that. However, the Human Reaper is completely irrelevant.

[Whatever42]

merrick97 wrote...

I didn't miss the fact that the Collectors were modified Protheans, but I failed to consider that possibility that the collectors were programmed from the start to do the Reapers bidding.

Plan A was that the keepers would open the relay, but that didnt happen

Plan B was Sovereign would recruit someone to open it for them. Saren ended up being that person.

Plan C I guess was the Collectors would be reawakened in the death of Sovereign.

Plan A is that the keepers open the relay, absolutely. This is a great plan A because it gives the Reapers immediate control over the relay network, beheads galactic government, and gives them information and records that they can use to harvest technologically advanced life.

Plan B was Sovereign. I get the impression that they've never needed Plan B before. The Protheans reprogamming the Keepers was a real wtf moment for the Reapers. We really have no idea how long Sovereign has been trying to get the Citadel. The Rachni war 1000 years ago might have been Sovereign. Saren was just a useful tool that Sovereign picked up along the way.

Place C was that there was no plan C. They're making it up as they go along now. The Collectors were always awake, gathering data for the Reaper return. I suspect now the Reapers are just reaching around in their toolbox for something that will work. Using the Collectors seems natural. The Reapers already have all the data they need, why not put the Collectors to work now. They are expendable, after all. But that's not their only plan, as we will soon learn.

Modifié par Whatever666343431431654324, 27 février 2011 - 09:15 .

[marshalleck]

Fine. Justify this statement:

"a way into the galaxy, that would be provided if the Human Reaper was completed"

In-game source please.