90 réponses à ce sujet

[Moiaussi]

merrick97 wrote...

I didn't miss the fact that the Collectors were modified Protheans, but I failed to consider that possibility that the collectors were programmed from the start to do the Reapers bidding.

Plan A was that the keepers would open the relay, but that didnt happen

Plan B was Sovereign would recruit someone to open it for them. Saren ended up being that person.

Plan C I guess was the Collectors would be reawakened in the death of Sovereign.

According to ME2, though, the collectors were (appearantly) an already known race and had been for a long time. Everyone completely ignores the fact that if they are that old, why is the concept of the Reaper civilization being that old so easily dismissed? Also, if they have been around and known so long, why is there no codex entry regarding them in ME1? I mean if the Rachnii were there... Shouldn't a major known race be noteworthy?

The implication is that they were sort of caretakers in the same way the keepers were before the Protheans hacked the Keepers. It may well be that the Collectors maintained and woke Sovereign.

[Phaedon]

Moiaussi wrote...
According to ME2, though, the collectors were (appearantly) an already known race and had been for a long time. Everyone completely ignores the fact that if they are that old,

But no one knows if the Collecotrs are old or not. There is no evidence visible to the Council races to suggest that the Collectors are older than let's say the Raloi or the Salarians.

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...

Fine. Justify this statement:

"a way into the galaxy, that would be provided if the Human Reaper was completed"

In-game source please.

You failed. We will find another way.

[Whatever42]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Fine. Justify this statement:

"a way into the galaxy, that would be provided if the Human Reaper was completed"

In-game source please.

You failed. We will find another way.

I confess, I was set to argue against you but that is a pretty telling line.

[Whatever42]

Moiaussi wrote...

merrick97 wrote...

I didn't miss the fact that the Collectors were modified Protheans, but I failed to consider that possibility that the collectors were programmed from the start to do the Reapers bidding.

Plan A was that the keepers would open the relay, but that didnt happen

Plan B was Sovereign would recruit someone to open it for them. Saren ended up being that person.

Plan C I guess was the Collectors would be reawakened in the death of Sovereign.

According to ME2, though, the collectors were (appearantly) an already known race and had been for a long time. Everyone completely ignores the fact that if they are that old, why is the concept of the Reaper civilization being that old so easily dismissed? Also, if they have been around and known so long, why is there no codex entry regarding them in ME1? I mean if the Rachnii were there... Shouldn't a major known race be noteworthy?

The implication is that they were sort of caretakers in the same way the keepers were before the Protheans hacked the Keepers. It may well be that the Collectors maintained and woke Sovereign.

Collectors are re-purposed Protheans. They never went away. They just kept a very low profile.

[marshalleck]

That's a pretty tenuous link. Obviously they intended to use the Space Terminator for something, but to say it would "replace" Sovereign is just unsupportable. So I guess Phaedon is saying their plan was to make another suicide run on the Citadel, where Space Terminator would punch the space station into submission like a galactic MMA fight?

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
"replace" Sovereign is just unsupportable.

Sovereign's purpose was one. To open a shortcut for the Reapers. That's what Harbinger expected the Collectors to do once they finished the Human Reaper.

[Iakus]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Fine. Justify this statement:

"a way into the galaxy, that would be provided if the Human Reaper was completed"

In-game source please.

You failed. We will find another way.

Failed to bring the Reapers back?  Or failed to build a new Reaper?  Or failed to capture Shepard? 

But really, the wrong question is being asked.  Assuming the Collectors were planning to bring the Reapers back, what was the plan to do that?  Where was that said in-game?

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
"replace" Sovereign is just unsupportable.

Sovereign's purpose was one. To open a shortcut for the Reapers. That's what Harbinger expected the Collectors to do once they finished the Human Reaper.

That's not what OP asked, though. What was the plan for the Space Terminator? What was it going to do? HOW was it going to "open a shortcut" is what OP wants to know. This is never explained or even hinted at in the game. 

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
"replace" Sovereign is just unsupportable.

Sovereign's purpose was one. To open a shortcut for the Reapers. That's what Harbinger expected the Collectors to do once they finished the Human Reaper.

That's not what OP asked, though. What was the plan for the Space Terminator? What was it going to do? HOW was it going to "open a shortcut" is what OP wants to know. This is never explained or even hinted at in the game. 

However in ME2 it is never clear how the Reapers planned to use the Collectors to solve the problem of being trapped in dark space. Did they intend for the collectors to attack the citadel and open the relays themselves?

The answer is that the Reapers planned on the Collectors solving the problem by creating the human Reaper.

[Iakus]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
"replace" Sovereign is just unsupportable.

Sovereign's purpose was one. To open a shortcut for the Reapers. That's what Harbinger expected the Collectors to do once they finished the Human Reaper.

How?

This new Reaper has no one to close the arms to protect it from the Citadel Fleet or shut down the relay system to stop reinforcements from coming in

Even if it did, the Conduit is known to exist at this point and has likely been deactivated (that is a pretty big hole in Citadel Security after all)

One Collector Cruiser is not going to hold off the entire Citadel Fleet for it.

Yes they're still rebuilding the fleet, but the Reaper is still years or even decades from being finished.  It will likely have to face a finished fleet that is more advanced that what Sovereign faced last time (thank you thanix cannons)
and that's assuming the Alliance didn't take the fight to the Collectors long before.

Edit:  The only way a replacement for Sovereign makes sense is if there's another shortcut out there that requires a Reaper.  Something more difficult than assaulting the CItadel with a fleet backing you and an unsuspected back entrance into it.  But easier than trying a a frontal assault on a Citadel all by your lonesome.

Modifié par iakus, 27 février 2011 - 09:39 .

[KenKenpachi]

I go with human reaper was ment as a replacement, and harbinger was hooked into the bases computer, when it was being taken out or over that acted as a fail safe to alert the other reapers that things arn't going well, up an at'em boys.

[marshalleck]

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
"replace" Sovereign is just unsupportable.

Sovereign's purpose was one. To open a shortcut for the Reapers. That's what Harbinger expected the Collectors to do once they finished the Human Reaper.

That's not what OP asked, though. What was the plan for the Space Terminator? What was it going to do? HOW was it going to "open a shortcut" is what OP wants to know. This is never explained or even hinted at in the game. 

However in ME2 it is never clear how the Reapers planned to use the Collectors to solve the problem of being trapped in dark space. Did they intend for the collectors to attack the citadel and open the relays themselves?

The answer is that the Reapers planned on the Collectors solving the problem by creating the human Reaper.

That's not an answer. It's essentially restating the question in the form of a statement. 

[eldav]

So does anyone else think that Bioware should release somekind of a statement about the baby Terminator ?

[marshalleck]

No. The best thing they could do IMO is pretend it never happened, it was all just a bad dream. Space Terminator doesn't need any more of a legitimate stake in this franchise than it has now. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 27 février 2011 - 09:44 .

[nevar00]

Oh... you were asking what the point of the baby human Reaper thing was?

Nobody knows: we can only speculate. I expect it will be addressed in the new game.

[Praetor Knight]

iakus wrote...

How?

This new Reaper has no one to close the arms to protect it from the Citadel Fleet or shut down the relay system to stop reinforcements from coming in

Even if it did, the Conduit is known to exist at this point and has likely been deactivated (that is a pretty big hole in Citadel Security after all)

One Collector Cruiser is not going to hold off the entire Citadel Fleet for it.

Yes they're still rebuilding the fleet, but the Reaper is still years or even decades from being finished.  It will likely have to face a finished fleet that is more advanced that what Sovereign faced last time (thank you thanix cannons)
and that's assuming the Alliance didn't take the fight to the Collectors long before.

Edit:  The only way a replacement for Sovereign makes sense is if there's another shortcut out there that requires a Reaper.  Something more difficult than assaulting the CItadel with a fleet backing you and an unsuspected back entrance into it.  But easier than trying a a frontal assault on a Citadel all by your lonesome.

Also consider Reapers likely do not share our sense of time, so their plans could easily unfold over thousands of years.

Three Cheers for TIM's tenacity! But with a destroyed Collector Base.

[Phaedon]

iakus wrote...
Edit:  The only way a replacement for Sovereign makes sense is if there's another shortcut out there that requires a Reaper.  Something more difficult than assaulting the CItadel with a fleet backing you and an unsuspected back entrance into it.  But easier than trying a a frontal assault on a Citadel all by your lonesome.

You don't know what the size of the Collector fleet would have been by the time the Collectors targetted Earth. It's not a matter of time, Reapers have plenty of it, it's probably a matter of them arriving on the Citadel.

[eldav]

...but but...i want a apology.

[Phaedon]

marshalleck wrote...
That's not an answer. It's essentially restating the question in the form of a statement. 

The OP asked how the Collectors were supposed to solve the deep space problem, I pointed out the shortcut thing that the OP had missed. This is the tool that the Collectors will use.

Modifié par Phaedon, 27 février 2011 - 09:47 .

[Fixers0]

I don't think it was intent to be explained or even supposed to speculate about , we just have to take it for granted.

now i don't want to start a whole discussing about writing, but i think this is a pretty clear example of what i call ''one-layer-writing'' this basicaly means that something in a story happens for one reason, with no room to argue what's behind it.

Modifié par Fixers0, 27 février 2011 - 09:45 .

[Phaedon]

Fixers0 wrote...

I don't think it was intent to be explained or even supposed to speculate about , we just have to take it for granted.

now i don't want to start a whole discussing about writing, but i think this is a pretty clear example of what i call ''one-layer-writing'' this basicaly means that something in a story happens for one reason, with no room to argue what's behind it.

Well, the thing is, the general outline of the trilogy was finished before ME1 was released so this argument is invalid. Unless you believe of course, that all ME games suffer from bad writing anyway, which counters your previous statements.

[marshalleck]

eldav wrote...

...but but...i want a apology.

Oh, you meant that sort of statement. I assumed you meant some sort of explanation. 

[The real truth]

Skip to the third post but you may need to read the basic's.

http://social.biowar...5/index/6254204

[Iakus]

Phaedon wrote...

iakus wrote...
Edit:  The only way a replacement for Sovereign makes sense is if there's another shortcut out there that requires a Reaper.  Something more difficult than assaulting the CItadel with a fleet backing you and an unsuspected back entrance into it.  But easier than trying a a frontal assault on a Citadel all by your lonesome.

You don't know what the size of the Collector fleet would have been by the time the Collectors targetted Earth. It's not a matter of time, Reapers have plenty of it, it's probably a matter of them arriving on the Citadel.

You're right, I don't.  However, given that we only see one Collector ship through the entire game, it is unlikely they have much of a fleet.

Assuming the Collectors did eventually target Earth, they'd be in for one heck of a fight.  So far, they had only targeted indicidual frientier colonies, virtually undefended.   Earth is a homeworld, an entire fleet of warships defends it, and working orbital and ground defenses.  Biotic soldiers.  People in body armor, even!  The tactics we've seen so far have been smash and grab in places nobody cares about.  And even that was drawing notice.  If they were to build up to something even close to Earth, the Alliance (and maybe the Citadel as a whole) will fall like a hammer on the Collectors, war with the Terminus or not.