90 réponses à ce sujet

[merrick97]

Good god ole mighty where has this thread gone?

[marshalleck]

Well you mentioned plot holes, so people are bound to start posting whatever they see as one.

[MisterJB]

I understand why the IFF was needed and the drift mechanics. Tough I fail to see why they are relevant.
At any rate, my whole argument was based on the fact that no Relay was visible on the Galactic Core so, the Omega 4 could have been special. By itself, it was already very weak however, I did forget a very important detail and that was

The real truth wrote...
I don't understand how they would get out of the core if there was only 1 relay.

this. The Reapers could have some special characteristic that allows them to interact with the Citadel Relay without the need for a Relay in Dark Space. However, the Normandy would have no such thing.
So, I was wrong. It is only logical that some unlucky Reaper had to do the whole trip from the Milky Way to Dark Space to build the Dark Space Relay. Unless of course, the Citadel Relay is that special but there's no evidence supporting this.

Returning to Trt's original point, even if some Reapers had to travel to Dark Space by their own means, that doesn't necessarely mean it's a better solution to have the entire Reaper Fleet do the trip instead of simply waiting some years for the Collectors to finish the Human Reaper and have it open the Citadel Relay.

[rocketsauce v2]

i'm startin to wonder if people pay attention while they play the game lol. the original question of this thread is ridiculous

[marshalleck]

MisterJB wrote...

I understand why the IFF was needed and the drift mechanics. Tough I fail to see why they are relevant.

Because you can't measure drift if you don't have an end point to measure from, and that end point is the relay partnered to the one you departed from. So if you understand drift and why the IFF is necessary, you understand why it's inherently implied that the Omega 4 relay has a partner relay in the galactic core. 

[Keltoris]

marshalleck wrote...

Because you can't measure drift if you don't have an end point to measure from, and that end point is the relay partnered to the one you departed from. So if you understand drift and why the IFF is necessary, you understand why it's inherently implied that the Omega 4 relay has a partner relay in the galactic core. 

This is quite right. Admittedly, the destination relay might be hidden behind some debris, but at the end after blowing the base, the Normandy definately just jumps to FTL and does not relay out.

Modifié par Keltoris, 28 février 2011 - 12:06 .

[Moiaussi]

Keltoris wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Because you can't measure drift if you don't have an end point to measure from, and that end point is the relay partnered to the one you departed from. So if you understand drift and why the IFF is necessary, you understand why it's inherently implied that the Omega 4 relay has a partner relay in the galactic core. 

This is quite right. Admittedly, the destination relay might be hidden behind some debris, but at the end after blowing the base, the Normandy definately just jumps to FTL and does not relay out.

Just because we don't see the Normandy using a relay doesn't mean there wasn't one. They are not travelling at light speed or sublight between relays or between systems in the Traverse either, or they would never get anywhere.

[88mphSlayer]

merrick97 wrote...

I probably missed something obvious but upon replaying ME1 again I noticed a few things that seem to be contridicted in ME2.

It was established in ME1 that the Reapers are trapped in dark space until someone can open the relay in the Citadel. The reapers intended for this to be the keepers but that didnt happen due to evolution.  In ME1 that person was obviously Saren who was stopped by Shepard.

However in ME2 it is never clear how the Reapers planned to use the Collectors to solve the problem of being trapped in dark space. Did they intend for the collectors to attack the citadel and open the relays themselves? 

Also it was said in ME1 that sovereign was the only reaper left behind so he could use the keepers to open the citadel relay. Given that he was destroyed how were the reapers even able to recruit the collectors??!! SHouldn't they have been stuck in dark space?!!

the bigger plot hole is that the collectors only have 1 ship and that they didn't help Sovereign out at the citadel, surely they might've tipped the edge against the Alliance reinforcements and kept Sovereign alive after he was knocked out for a second or whatever deus ex machina happened when saren was finally defeated

[SnakeSNMF]

This is offtopic, but I really hope humans and the races don't survive.

I want to see an epic battle with us fighting to the last breath, and for us, to give the next generation of races an even bigger fighting chance by leaving behind discs that would specifically warn (y'know, in the language of math.. everyone knows math that's in space) and leave behind Reaper technology for them to harness.
/nod

[emmanuelsieyes]

The purpose of the extinction cycle is to harvest the intelligent species from among the galaxy, turn them into gray goo, and use that to produce another reaper.

The collectors were handling the production of the new reaper, because they were working inside the galactic core, where they would have access to raw materials/energy, as opposed to the Reaper fleet which has access to nothing in dark space.

The idea was that after the Reapers return, then all of the intelligent life will be crushed, so that the collectors can take as many humans as needed to complete the space terminator.

Also, the collectors are going to have more than one ship. They had the resources to build a large space station in the galatic core. I would expect that they are sending the same ship after the Normandy because the 'crew' of that ship has the most experience dealing with Shepard.

The entire idea of the collectors is that they're going to be working on building the next generation of Reapers. The Reapers expect Sovereign to handle all of the actual combat duty, if they start sending out the Collectors to fight their battles, then they are going to have to replace the collectors (in addition to the next gen of reapers).

Modifié par emmanuelsieyes, 28 février 2011 - 04:20 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Either Vigil was lying, or ME1 was just one big plot hole that has been retconned away as of ME2.

BTW, the Citadel is not a "mass relay to dark space" itself:

http://www.youtube.c...5_qZkM#t=11m25s

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 28 février 2011 - 04:42 .

[vader da slayer]

merrick97 wrote...

I probably missed something obvious but upon replaying ME1 again I noticed a few things that seem to be contridicted in ME2.

It was established in ME1 that the Reapers are trapped in dark space until someone can open the relay in the Citadel. The reapers intended for this to be the keepers but that didnt happen due to evolution.  In ME1 that person was obviously Saren who was stopped by Shepard.

However in ME2 it is never clear how the Reapers planned to use the Collectors to solve the problem of being trapped in dark space. Did they intend for the collectors to attack the citadel and open the relays themselves? 

Also it was said in ME1 that sovereign was the only reaper left behind so he could use the keepers to open the citadel relay. Given that he was destroyed how were the reapers even able to recruit the collectors??!! SHouldn't they have been stuck in dark space?!!

ok point 1:

The keepers activate the Citadel Mass Relay on a signal sent out by the Reapers. The Prothean base on Ilos was a top secret (ie not logged in data files on the Citadel that the reapers looked through to get census data and what not) facility and survived the Reaper culling. After the Reaper fleet left teh remaining scientist worked to create a "virus" that blocks the signal from deep space to open the Citadel Mass Relay (not due to evolutions or w/e you were thinking it is). This is all explained in ME1 while talking to Virgil. Saren was recruited once the signal didn't activate the keepers and the Reapers knew something was up.

point 2:

was it directly stated? no but it should be pretty obvious that the Human Reaper was gonig to be used to get into the citadels systems and activate the relays. this isn't a plot hole or retcon. a lot of things in stories aren't fully explained and are left for the reader/viewer to decide how it happens or what it was for. here its a pretty safe bet that that is what the human reaper first function was to carry out (activating the citadel mass relay).

point 3:

the collectors weren't recruitted AFTER soveriegn died. they have been working for the Reapers since the end of the Prothean Empire 50,000 years ago. this should be quite obvious seeing as how the Collectors ARE Protheans. The collectors are captured protheans repurposed to do the work of the Reapers.

also "trapped" in dark space doesn't mean trapped as in can't leave. it just means that the time that it will take them to get to the Milky Way is a long time comming (which also leads me to think every Reaper has a built in Mass Relay so that when the initial signal failed to activate the Citadel they started hauling towards the MW and have been trying to get something going to get the Citadel Relay up).

Modifié par vader da slayer, 28 février 2011 - 04:35 .

[Imbackagain]

88mphSlayer wrote...

merrick97 wrote...

I probably missed something obvious but upon replaying ME1 again I noticed a few things that seem to be contridicted in ME2.

It was established in ME1 that the Reapers are trapped in dark space until someone can open the relay in the Citadel. The reapers intended for this to be the keepers but that didnt happen due to evolution.  In ME1 that person was obviously Saren who was stopped by Shepard.

However in ME2 it is never clear how the Reapers planned to use the Collectors to solve the problem of being trapped in dark space. Did they intend for the collectors to attack the citadel and open the relays themselves? 

Also it was said in ME1 that sovereign was the only reaper left behind so he could use the keepers to open the citadel relay. Given that he was destroyed how were the reapers even able to recruit the collectors??!! SHouldn't they have been stuck in dark space?!!

the bigger plot hole is that the collectors only have 1 ship and that they didn't help Sovereign out at the citadel, surely they might've tipped the edge against the Alliance reinforcements and kept Sovereign alive after he was knocked out for a second or whatever deus ex machina happened when saren was finally defeated

The collectors aside from the keepers are the only known agents of the reapers.
It's pretty pointless to make such an effective agent this far down the line.
Sovereign was lost during the prothean extinction.
The reapers didn't know what happened to sovereign.
They create the collectors to carry out sovereigns job.
Sovereign new nothing of the collectors.


http://social.biowar...5/index/6254204

Modifié par Imbackagain, 28 février 2011 - 02:23 .

[Imbackagain]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Either Vigil was lying, or ME1 was just one big plot hole that has been retconned away as of ME2.

BTW, the Citadel is not a "mass relay to dark space" itself:

http://www.youtube.c...5_qZkM#t=11m25s

Or vigil didn't know the facts.
I think its a fact vigil didn't know the facts.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
Maybe the relays near the citadel can go to darkspace, In which case is it irrevelant anyway.
It change's nothing.

[merrick97]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Its still not completely clear to me, but it resulted in a lot of good discussion. I gather more will be revealed in ME3.

[In Exile]

It's a less then well thought out ending as of right now, which is a shame because BattleStar Galactica Mass Effect is reduced to a series of good short stories while lacking any serious overarching force.