204 réponses à ce sujet

[Nonoru]

How original.

[Saibh]

slimgrin wrote...

The criricism is this: Bioware is bending over backwards to cater to popular taste. It's painfully obvious by now they want to be 'relevant' in the entertainment industry, rather than forging their own, unique visoin. They lift so much from film and other game it's no longer possible to ignore how derivitave they have become.

Says who? I think combat is actually fun now. I liked DAO combat, but it wasn't really fun to me. Interesting, maybe, but I never really enjoyed it enough to anticipate battles. Often I dreaded them. Best of all, I think DAII combat resembles what I liked about DAO combat, but improved on a lot of what I didn't.

The voiced protagonist is just a different style of doing things. DAO was very popular. They probably could have made another unvoiced protagonist, but they wanted to go a different route. And, honestly, it makes sense to me: this story is about a particular person and how s/he effects the world. DAO was more about the world being affected. Seven different people could complete DAO's story. You, as an individual, weren't very important. Hawke is.

You could say DAO lifted a lot from BG. Does that make it bad? Emulating success, learning from success, isn't an inherently bad thing to do, nor does it make a bad game. Many people love ME. Even more people loved ME2. I thought it was an amazing game, and if they choose to learn from the successes of it, great! What's best is that it still seems like DA to me.

[pumpkinman13]

Zalocx wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

The fact is, Bioware dropped their original vision for DA like a bad habit. It's staring everyone square in the face, yet most here are denying it.

No they haven't

Darkspawn are still evil
The Qunari are still an expansionist "Foerign and Exotic" power
Ferelden still stinks of Dog
Elves are still living in Gettos
The Dalish are still outcasts
Templars still hunt. . .
. . . Apostates who are still mages outside Chantry control
Flemeth is still an enigma with multiple byzantine plots in motion

The original vision is still there, visual and gameplay tweeks do noting to the lore. And I care more about lore and plot than any flashy combat animation

Slim obviously meant their artistic vision/aesthetic vision.

Darkspawn look totally different.
Qunari look very different.
Ferelden... well, it's not really there.
Elves look slightly different (thinner, more lithe, more elfine).
Templars armour has been redesigned.
Flemeth has a new appearance.

[Darji]

Saibh wrote...

The thing is, "Dragon Effect" as a term doesn't make a whole lot of sense. To borrow someone else's comparison, saying that the game is "Mass Effect with swords" is like saying a flight sim is a driving game with planes.

It's so broad as to not make sense. The dialogue wheel has been enacted--so? If it were in list form, I don't think people would blink an eye. Or at least many people wouldn't blink many eyes. A voiced protagonist is one of the silliest comparisons you can make--Geralt is voiced, has a name, and hundreds and hundreds of pages of backstory, but that doesn't change the praise it gets.

Saying it's like Mass Effect is a shorthand for saying the dialogue wheel and voiced protagonist, as well as the more visceral combat. But, in itself, "Dragon Effect" doesn't really mean much.

It does makes sense.

- The story is more focused on on hero character just like shepard.
- The combat is more action oriented to please the console and Mass effect crowd.
- Die dialoguesystem was dumbed down to the same Mass effectsystem. You dont need to think anymore about your answers. If you wnat to be bad choose the read answer if you want to be good choose the blue one. Also in the demo these answers were not really different from each other.  Again you dont need to think anymore.
- Also its a shorter game and the same length as Mass effect. German reviews are talking about 12-15 hours  for the main campaign. And this is reeally short  for a RPGon your first playthrough.

It is cleary dragon effect and that is exactly what Bioware wanted.  People may not like it (myself included) but they dont care anymore about the old fanbase. Instead they focus on he console crowd. If you really dont like this. Stop supporting Bioware especially on the PC. Show them that people wont buy it anymore only because it comes from Bioware.

And if you like it. Be happy and play it in a few weeks. But also accept the fact, that it is no Dragon anymore it is Dragon Effect. You still can like it^^

[mesmerizedish]

JohnEpler wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

The fact is, Bioware dropped their original vision for DA like a bad habit. It's staring everyone square in the face, yet most here are denying it.

I guess I didn't get that memo. What was their original vision?

Insectile cowboys.

Dude, that would have so much cooler than the Dragon Age we get. Shame, BioWare, shame.

[AkiKishi]

Saibh wrote...

The voiced protagonist is just a different style of doing things. DAO was very popular. They probably could have made another unvoiced protagonist, but they wanted to go a different route. And, honestly, it makes sense to me: this story is about a particular person and how s/he effects the world. DAO was more about the world being affected. Seven different people could complete DAO's story. You, as an individual, weren't very important. Hawke is.

Chicken and egg. Did they decide voiced protagonist and then write the story, or some up with the story and decide voiced protagonist ? 

That so reminded me of 2andhalf men then...

Hawkes important as the price for losing those characters and yet the story is not considered Epic....

[Gavinthelocust]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

The fact is, Bioware dropped their original vision for DA like a bad habit. It's staring everyone square in the face, yet most here are denying it.

I guess I didn't get that memo. What was their original vision?

Insectile cowboys.

Dude, that would have so much cooler than the Dragon Age we get. Shame, BioWare, shame.

And it all comes back to prawns.
Wonder if I can make this thread also about tentacles violating Merrill...

[mesmerizedish]

Darji wrote...

Saibh wrote...

The thing is, "Dragon Effect" as a term doesn't make a whole lot of sense. To borrow someone else's comparison, saying that the game is "Mass Effect with swords" is like saying a flight sim is a driving game with planes.

It's so broad as to not make sense. The dialogue wheel has been enacted--so? If it were in list form, I don't think people would blink an eye. Or at least many people wouldn't blink many eyes. A voiced protagonist is one of the silliest comparisons you can make--Geralt is voiced, has a name, and hundreds and hundreds of pages of backstory, but that doesn't change the praise it gets.

Saying it's like Mass Effect is a shorthand for saying the dialogue wheel and voiced protagonist, as well as the more visceral combat. But, in itself, "Dragon Effect" doesn't really mean much.

- The story is more focused on on hero character just like shepard.
- The combat is more action oriented to please the console and Mass effect crowd.
- Die dialoguesystem was dumbed down to the same Mass effectsystem. You dont need to think anymore about your answers. If you wnat to be bad choose the read answer if you want to be good choose the blue one. Also in the demo these answers were not really different from each other.  Again you dont need to think anymore.
- Also its a shorter game and the same length as Mass effect. German reviews are talking about 12-15 hours  for the main campaign. And this is reeally short  for a RPGon your first playthrough.

- So was Baldur's Gate
- The combat is exactly the same, except more fun
- The dialogue system is identical to Origins' in all but the presentation; it looks different, but it's the same under the hood
- If I had ignored side-quests, I could have completed Origins in 12-15 hours easily. Oblivion's main quest took me about three hours the first time I did it.

Sorry, but your post reeks of uninformed BS

[scottelite]

I am intriuged about this "Dragon Age to" game. How does it differ from Dragon Age II.

[grimgim]

Darji wrote...

]It does makes sense.

- The story is more focused on on hero character just like shepard.
- The combat is more action oriented to please the console and Mass effect crowd.
- Die dialoguesystem was dumbed down to the same Mass effectsystem. You dont need to think anymore about your answers. If you wnat to be bad choose the read answer if you want to be good choose the blue one. Also in the demo these answers were not really different from each other.  Again you dont need to think anymore.
- Also its a shorter game and the same length as Mass effect. German reviews are talking about 12-15 hours  for the main campaign. And this is reeally short  for a RPGon your first playthrough.

It is cleary dragon effect and that is exactly what Bioware wanted.  People may not like it (myself included) but they dont care anymore about the old fanbase. Instead they focus on he console crowd. If you really dont like this. Stop supporting Bioware especially on the PC. Show them that people wont buy it anymore only because it comes from Bioware.

And if you like it. Be happy and play it in a few weeks. But also accept the fact, that it is no Dragon anymore it is Dragon Effect. You still can like it^^

- The combat is the same, just with faster animations. It still remains tactical.
- The dialogue system has a new interface, how is that "dumbed down"? How did you have to think in the "old dialogue system", when you know exactly what you are going to say? <_<

[elirian_19]

Another one of these? How fun.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

DanteGunZ wrote...

JediMB wrote...

And anyone who actually bothered to read the article the OP linked to would have reached the end and read...

"At least what I can tell you, is that on March 8th, you will not be playing Dragon Effect 2 on PC, PS3, and Xbox 360, but Dragon Age 2."

Just as no one reads the instructions, they don't read articles either. The article he linked defeated the point of his topic completely. /facepalm

this^ people read more than a link before most of you look like fools

its like seeing scores in reviews without seeing the actual pro and cons

[dreamextractor]

grimgim wrote...

Darji wrote...

]It does makes sense.

- The story is more focused on on hero character just like shepard.
- The combat is more action oriented to please the console and Mass effect crowd.
- Die dialoguesystem was dumbed down to the same Mass effectsystem. You dont need to think anymore about your answers. If you wnat to be bad choose the read answer if you want to be good choose the blue one. Also in the demo these answers were not really different from each other.  Again you dont need to think anymore.
- Also its a shorter game and the same length as Mass effect. German reviews are talking about 12-15 hours  for the main campaign. And this is reeally short  for a RPGon your first playthrough.

It is cleary dragon effect and that is exactly what Bioware wanted.  People may not like it (myself included) but they dont care anymore about the old fanbase. Instead they focus on he console crowd. If you really dont like this. Stop supporting Bioware especially on the PC. Show them that people wont buy it anymore only because it comes from Bioware.

And if you like it. Be happy and play it in a few weeks. But also accept the fact, that it is no Dragon anymore it is Dragon Effect. You still can like it^^

- The combat is the same, just with faster animations. It still remains tactical.
- The dialogue system has a new interface, how is that "dumbed down"? How did you have to think in the "old dialogue system", when you know exactly what you are going to say? <_<

You mean you didn't spend at least half an hour trying to figure out what each dialogue choice meant? Dialogue in DA:O was so deep!

Also...

Darji wrote...

-
Die dialoguesystem was dumbed down to the same Mass effectsystem. You dont need to think anymore about your answers. If you wnat to be bad choose the read answer if you want to be good choose the blue one. Also
in the demo these answers were not really different from each other. Again you dont need to think anymore.

This is exactly the same in DA:O. You're deluding yourself if you think the dialogue system in DA:O was anything deep.

Modifié par dreamextractor, 27 février 2011 - 10:11 .

[Saibh]

BobSmith101 wrote...


Chicken and egg. Did they decide voiced protagonist and then write the story, or some up with the story and decide voiced protagonist ? 

That so reminded me of 2andhalf men then...

Hawkes important as the price for losing those characters and yet the story is not considered Epic....

1. Irrelevant. The final outcome is a protagonist that works with the story being told, in my opinion.
2. And some people found DAO's story bad. The characters annoying. The combat dull. I, for one, would never have called DAO epic.
3. And even if I don't find DAII epic, so what? I said the story is more personal, not more Greek tragedy.

Modifié par Saibh, 27 février 2011 - 10:07 .

[MorrigansLove]

I do think that Dragon Age 2 will be a good game, but strategy will not be intact, which will alienate a lot of fans of the original.

[Zulmoka531]

Darji wrote...

Saibh wrote...

The thing is, "Dragon Effect" as a term doesn't make a whole lot of sense. To borrow someone else's comparison, saying that the game is "Mass Effect with swords" is like saying a flight sim is a driving game with planes.

It's so broad as to not make sense. The dialogue wheel has been enacted--so? If it were in list form, I don't think people would blink an eye. Or at least many people wouldn't blink many eyes. A voiced protagonist is one of the silliest comparisons you can make--Geralt is voiced, has a name, and hundreds and hundreds of pages of backstory, but that doesn't change the praise it gets.

Saying it's like Mass Effect is a shorthand for saying the dialogue wheel and voiced protagonist, as well as the more visceral combat. But, in itself, "Dragon Effect" doesn't really mean much.

It does makes sense.

- The story is more focused on on hero character just like shepard.
- The combat is more action oriented to please the console and Mass effect crowd.
- Die dialoguesystem was dumbed down to the same Mass effectsystem. You dont need to think anymore about your answers. If you wnat to be bad choose the read answer if you want to be good choose the blue one. Also in the demo these answers were not really different from each other.  Again you dont need to think anymore.
- Also its a shorter game and the same length as Mass effect. German reviews are talking about 12-15 hours  for the main campaign. And this is reeally short  for a RPGon your first playthrough.

It is cleary dragon effect and that is exactly what Bioware wanted.  People may not like it (myself included) but they dont care anymore about the old fanbase. Instead they focus on he console crowd. If you really dont like this. Stop supporting Bioware especially on the PC. Show them that people wont buy it anymore only because it comes from Bioware.

And if you like it. Be happy and play it in a few weeks. But also accept the fact, that it is no Dragon anymore it is Dragon Effect. You still can like it^^

Consoles really need to stop being blamed for things. Games haven't changed that much since the release of them. I recall when the original counter strike (PC) was first released....and how much many of the "console" games of today resemble it.

Anyway not to get too off topic, but the OP wasn't bashing on DA2, and the article he linked wasn't really either. People fear change and aren't going to be receptive to the ones made in DA2. If you ask my opinion had races (origins) been kept and the hero remained silent, many of these threads wold not exist.

[Rockpopple]

[Morroian]

slimgrin wrote...

The criricism is this: Bioware is bending over backwards to cater to popular taste. It's painfully obvious by now they want to be 'relevant' in the entertainment industry, rather than forging their own, unique visoin. They lift so much from film and other games it's no longer possible to ignore how derivative they have become.

I think they're trying to walk the line between entertainment and their vision for a Bioware game. And when you get into this argument you still have to explain Kotor which was just as mainstream in its outlook as Mass Effect and moreso than DA2 which still has it heavy tactical component to distinguish itself, plus the innovations in character interaction. There's also the fact that despite the trappings role playing will be better in DA2 than in the ME series.

[AngryFrozenWater]

DanteGunZ wrote...

JediMB wrote...

And anyone who actually bothered to read the article the OP linked to would have reached the end and read...

"At least what I can tell you, is that on March 8th, you will not be playing Dragon Effect 2 on PC, PS3, and Xbox 360, but Dragon Age 2."

Just as no one reads the instructions, they don't read articles either. The article he linked defeated the point of his topic completely. /facepalm

Exactly. If people wonder who the trolls are in this thread.... We now know.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 27 février 2011 - 10:11 .

[Zalocx]

pumpkinman13 wrote...

Slim obviously meant their artistic vision/aesthetic vision.

Darkspawn look totally different.

This is the only poice I will aquiesce, and even then I LIKE the new Darkspawn, they look more like perversions of Humanity (hurlocks) than rentals from Orcs-R-Us' Generic Fantasy Bargin Bin. The only thing I don't like is the teeth (could be sharper and more pointy) and the "uniform" armor. DA:O's Darkspawn may have all had the same model but their armor looked like missmash scavenged bits and bobs welded together.

pumpkinman13 wrote...
Qunari look very different.

Judging from one guy who is said to be  naturally hornless, and the a few dozen mercs most of whom wore helms and the rest of whom were literal Sten clones because Origins aparently had only one Qunari facemorph. And even those guys are said to be outcasts that remove their horns. That isn't waht the word "ret-con" means. A retcon would be if we went to par-Vollen and no one had horns, then we went back and everyone did. Or if the Sten showed up with horns. There is no existing continuity that states "As a species Qunari don't have horns"

pumpkinman13 wrote...
Ferelden... well, it's not really there.

It still smells like dog

pumpkinman13 wrote...
Elves look slightly different (thinner, more lithe, more elfine).

Good, I was sick of "humans with pointy ears" also from that same Generic Fantasy Bargin bin

pumpkinman13 wrote...
Templars armour has been redesigned.

Perhaps because Kirkwall's Templar's have a different uniform than Fereldans? The Sword of Mercy is still there on the breastplate so minor cosmetics aside its rather easy to ID them as Tempars/

pumpkinman13 wrote...
Flemeth has a new appearance.

Shapeshifter, Trickster Archatype, in Morrigan's words "not truely human"

Modifié par Zalocx, 27 février 2011 - 10:12 .

[mesmerizedish]

Saibh wrote...

3. And even if I don't find DAII epic, so what? I said the story is more personal, not more Greek tragedy.

Greek tragedies were very personal*! I, for one, welcome our new Sophoclean overlords.




*in before oedipuslol

[MorrigansLove]

Saibh wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

The criricism is this: Bioware is bending over backwards to cater to popular taste. It's painfully obvious by now they want to be 'relevant' in the entertainment industry, rather than forging their own, unique visoin. They lift so much from film and other game it's no longer possible to ignore how derivitave they have become.

Says who? I think combat is actually fun now. I liked DAO combat, but it wasn't really fun to me. Interesting, maybe, but I never really enjoyed it enough to anticipate battles. Often I dreaded them. Best of all, I think DAII combat resembles what I liked about DAO combat, but improved on a lot of what I didn't.

The voiced protagonist is just a different style of doing things. DAO was very popular. They probably could have made another unvoiced protagonist, but they wanted to go a different route. And, honestly, it makes sense to me: this story is about a particular person and how s/he effects the world. DAO was more about the world being affected. Seven different people could complete DAO's story. You, as an individual, weren't very important. Hawke is.

You could say DAO lifted a lot from BG. Does that make it bad? Emulating success, learning from success, isn't an inherently bad thing to do, nor does it make a bad game. Many people love ME. Even more people loved ME2. I thought it was an amazing game, and if they choose to learn from the successes of it, great! What's best is that it still seems like DA to me.

Your opinion, mate. The combat may be better but, seriously, that will turn out to be nothing if the dialogue isn't at least endurable. The demo showed that dialogue was... sub-par to say the least, especially from Bethany. Also the ending of the game is said to be fairly disappointing which could affect the views of this game to a lot of gamers, including myself. If the game makes me care, i'll care. But improved gameplay won't be enough, i'm afraid.

[Smertnik]

I should go.

[Saibh]

[quote]Darji wrote...

It does makes sense.

- The story is more focused on on hero character just like shepard. [/quote]

Right, more personal story. I already said that.

[quote]- The combat is more action oriented to please the console and Mass effect crowd.[/quote]

Just because it looks flashier doesn't mean it's stupid. Why must exciting and cerebral be mutually exclusive? Why can't it be both? 

Well, I think it can, because I think DAII is.

[quote]- Die dialoguesystem was dumbed down to the same Mass effectsystem. You dont need to think anymore about your answers. If you wnat to be bad choose the read answer if you want to be good choose the blue one. Also in the demo these answers were not really different from each other.  Again you dont need to think anymore.[/quote]

I could have chosen the second option each time without looking at it in DAO, if I didn't care. If you don't want to read what's said, and instead choose to play a character that is always aggressive or pragmatic, well, that's your choice. But it's not dumber than DAO's system. You don't have to be an Oxford scholar to read lines and then pick the one that sounds the most angry.

[quote]- Also its a shorter game and the same length as Mass effect. German reviews are talking about 12-15 hours  for the main campaign. And this is reeally short  for a RPGon your first playthrough. [/quote]
I love how dissenters focus on that one review, and not the other one that said fifty hours. 

Also, shorter is irrelevant to me if there's a higher playability.[/quote]

[quote]It is cleary dragon effect and that is exactly what Bioware wanted.  People may not like it (myself included) but they dont care anymore about the old fanbase. Instead they focus on he console crowd. If you really dont like this. Stop supporting Bioware especially on the PC. Show them that people wont buy it anymore only because it comes from Bioware.

And if you like it. Be happy and play it in a few weeks. But also accept the fact, that it is no Dragon anymore it is Dragon Effect. You still can like it^^[/quote]

Ah, my favorite. Claiming fans who like the game are either

a) Not their old fans.
 Are in denial about the game anyway.
c) Console kiddies

If you want to stop supporting BioWare, I suggest not posting here anymore. An empty forum would be more telling than a bunch of loud complainers, like they get every time they try to make a new game.

Modifié par Saibh, 27 février 2011 - 10:14 .

[Saibh]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Your opinion, mate. The combat may be better but, seriously, that will turn out to be nothing if the dialogue isn't at least endurable. The demo showed that dialogue was... sub-par to say the least, especially from Bethany. Also the ending of the game is said to be fairly disappointing which could affect the views of this game to a lot of gamers, including myself. If the game makes me care, i'll care. But improved gameplay won't be enough, i'm afraid.

Your opinion, mate.