500 réponses à ce sujet

[JrayM16]

TheCreeper wrote...

I think the biggest issue with blood mages is that the people who turn to it are often times not exactly the best folk to begin with.

This, usually.

[Medhia Nox]

From what Origins tells of blood magic - the really powerful stuff always requires 'human' sacrifice. So, if that's cool with you - then you're good to go.

For me - at the best I will have any Blood Mage I find turned into a Tranquil. It's what I assumed happened to Jowan after I handed over to the Circle. At the worst - I'll roast you down to your bones where you stand.

[TEWR]

SnakeHelah wrote...

Is weed inherently bad?

Nope. Jesus smoked weed (the Bible makes reference to a "plant that cures all troubles" so it could be weed haha), Native Americans smoked weed, hippies smoked weed. The only reason it's illegal is because big business companies couldn't find a good way to tax it. Even now, weed is medicinalized. Weed is no more damaging to a person than alcohol, less even. There's been no REAL evidence to suggest smoking weed causes cancer or kills brain cells. It's just fabricated.

Although you do not want to get me started on a rant on weed. I'll go on for pages and pages. I've won countless arguments with people about weed

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 04 mars 2011 - 09:23 .

[Aluvious]

Most Blood Mages were more than likely to be evil mages before they became Blood Mages. Jowan and potentially the mage Warden are exceptions, though.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
That's assuming of course that a Blood Mage is in fact mind controlling you to trust him, but being so paranoid about every possible mage who may or may not have knowledge of Blood Magic so much that you can never trust them is not only unhealthy, but unfair.

As for a liar, people can be very crafty and intelligent with their lies, creating a lie that is next to impossible to expose, which makes you trust them. Can be. Doesn't necessarily mean that all people will be.

I can mistrust people, and if I am smart, expose the lies of someone. And no matter how much I trust someone, there is a very clear limit to just how much one can influence me and "make" me do.

What defense does one have against a blood mage? One doesn't even get a choice in the matter.

No, there is a whole world of difference between mind control and simple lies. To equate them is sheer folly.
A normal person can't make me forget things, can't make me kill myself against my will or make me kill others.

An no, I haven't said mistrust every mage...I said mistrust every blood mage.
Normal mages can't mind control either.

Mind control is a power I could intrust no one with. NO ONE.
Heck, in real-life I'm a pathetic goody-good-shoes who literaly avoids stepping on ants (I kid you not). And I'd never trust myself with that power. Nor my mother, or my sisters or my father or any living human.

Mind control is too tempting a power, to abusable.
And while having faith in your fellow men is understandalbe, there are limits to everything...including a mans ability to resist temptation. No one is truly completly incorruptable.

[Ealos]

I'd say yes. It's the Faustian sort of magic, taking a step too far, bargaining with more than is wholesome. It can control minds, supports itself on pain and draining life. Even its healing seems more "unnatural" than "magical". Kinda surprised the necromantic abilities of the regular schools aren't regarded similarly.

[Sandy2009]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Sandy2009 wrote...

Has this thread reached any conclusion yet? As always the net result of all the discussion seems to be zero .

I am confused by this thread, and I don't like to be confused
because confusion makes my head disoriented, and I don't like to be disoriented
because disorentation makes me walk tipsy, and I don't like to walk tipsy
because walking tipsy makes other people confused, and I don't like to make other people confused
because confusion makes their head disoriented...   

Uh... you understand the problem.

so my nefarious plans are working! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...   the writers!

BTW, I am anxious to know what you think about the writing of "Lost" serial. It has been called one of the most original writing style of tv history. Did you like it, hated it, indifferent??? I like and hate it at the same time.

[SnakeHelah]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

SnakeHelah wrote...

Is weed inherently bad?

Nope. Jesus smoked weed (the Bible makes reference to a "plant that cures all troubles" so it could be weed haha), Native Americans smoked weed, hippies smoked weed. The only reason it's illegal is because big business companies couldn't find a good way to tax it. Even now, weed is medicinalized. Weed is no more damaging to a person than alcohol, less even. There's been no REAL evidence to suggest smoking weed causes cancer or kills brain cells. It's just fabricated.

Although you do not want to get me started on a rant on weed. I'll go on for pages and pages. I've won countless arguments with people about weed

Seeeeee. That's the point, andraste used blood magic too etc. I was just comparing these 2. Heh

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Blood mages don't exist and these people don't live in Thedas. They have never been subject to the powers of a blood mage or mind control.
If they did, they'd sing a different tune.

It was never up for debate whether blood mages were real or not, but we know there are fictional and real people who clearly don't automatically distrust blood mages simply because of the power they command.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

It's not the issue of different abilties - it's the issue that the abiltiy in question undermines the very basics of what trust is.

I really dont' know how else to explain it. If you really can't see the interplay between mind control and trust, which is the product of your mind, which can be directly manipulated.

Puting such total trust of your life, and hte lives of others, into an individual that can play you like puppet wihout you even knowing...it's naive.

The problem I have with your argument isn't with the idea that some would distrust blood mages, but that all people should. You're pretty much saying anyone who would place trust in a blood mage is naive regardless of the circumstances, and I disagree with that assessment. We already know Grey Warden mages have turned to blood mage to defeat the darkspawn, and the purpose of their order is to defeat the darkspawn. Duncan counters the notion of blood magic being evil with the fact that Wardens have used it. The mage protagonist of the Magi Origin can argue that the illegal mage the templars were hunting likely used blood magic as a means of survival. I can see why some would mistrust blood mages, but I don't see why trust should be precluded from everyone simply because the person in question has abilities that we don't possess.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

X-men and hte whole situation in there are rather stupid IMHO, but that's beside the point.
It's not bigotry..it's basic common sense and survival instinct.

Why is it stupid? The writer intentionally used mutants as a stand-in for outsiders, homosexuals, and minorities, which is what fantasy and science fiction have done when addressing real world issues. This was the premise developed by Chris Claremont through his story arcs. It's a concept that's changed over time with other writers.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No, it's logic. You can't just dismiss it as oppinion because you don't like it.

Mind control is the most tempting power there is. It allow one do pretty much anything wihout getting caught.
Someone with mind control can fabricate your very thoughts. The very trust you feel can be implanted there.

How can there be trust in such a situation?
How can any sensible person put his life, and the life of those around him at stake?

It's like believing in the known laws of physics, when you know they can change on a whim.

It's not logic, though, it's a matter of opinion because your argument is subjective. People can be manipulated without the use of blood magic, and we already know there are mages who have used blood magic as a means to defeat the greatest threat Thedas has ever faced - the darkspawn. So I don't see why blood mages or blood magic should always be mistrusted when there are Grey Warden mages who are using such means against an enemy that wishes to destroy all life on the continent.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

It's not stupid to have an opinion that differs from yours, Lotion.

As a general rule, no.
In this case.....yes.

Regardless of what you claim, your opinion doesn't constitute a fact. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but that's precisely what it is, and people aren't stupid simply because they have a different opinion than you do.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Did you even read what you quoted?
HOW DO YOU KNOW HE'S NOT USING THOSE ABILITIES ON YOU RIGHT NOW?
How do you know he's using those abilitites on the Darkspawn? In the presence of a blood mage, you cannot trust your own thoughts.

Yes, I quoted you using all bold to say trusting a blood mage is "foolish" and that this is "undeniable," but I disagreed. I addressed that since we know there are Grey Wardens who use blood magic as a means to defeat the darkspawn, then I don't see why trust in a blood mage should be viewed as foolish if we account for the mages who are using it as a means to defeating the greatest threat of their lifetime.

[baddogkelevra]

How is controlling somebody with Blood Magic any worse than lighting them on fire? The art of using Blood Magic can be more subtle and manipulative than regular magic surely, but it is really no more evil in its intentions. It's really just better magic if you ask me, so it either makes you a better good guy or a better villain depending on how you use it.

[Sandy2009]

TheCreeper wrote...

I think the biggest issue with blood mages is that the people who turn to it are often times not exactly the best folk to begin with.

Great conclusion. Simple, straight forward, easy to understand without opening an oxford dictionary. The first enchanter likes it and thinks it should be forwarded to king Alistair. Everybody in this thread gets minor boost to mana/stamina regeneration as promised.  Knight-commander Greagoir also sends his regards.

[TEWR]

Sandy2009 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Sandy2009 wrote...

Has this thread reached any conclusion yet? As always the net result of all the discussion seems to be zero .

I am confused by this thread, and I don't like to be confused
because confusion makes my head disoriented, and I don't like to be disoriented
because disorentation makes me walk tipsy, and I don't like to walk tipsy
because walking tipsy makes other people confused, and I don't like to make other people confused
because confusion makes their head disoriented...   

Uh... you understand the problem.

so my nefarious plans are working! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...   the writers!

BTW, I am anxious to know what you think about the writing of "Lost" serial. It has been called one of the most original writing style of tv history. Did you like it, hated it, indifferent??? I like and hate it at the same time.

I could never get into Lost. When I tried to get into Lost, all that happened was that I was always lost. Also, I just lost the game. Plus I missed a lot of episodes due to me working at night sometimes, so that didn't help me out.

[TEWR]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...


I can mistrust people, and if I am smart, expose the lies of someone. And no matter how much I trust someone, there is a very clear limit to just how much one can influence me and "make" me do.

What defense does one have against a blood mage? One doesn't even get a choice in the matter.

No, there is a whole world of difference between mind control and simple lies. To equate them is sheer folly.
A normal person can't make me forget things, can't make me kill myself against my will or make me kill others.

An no, I haven't said mistrust every mage...I said mistrust every blood mage.
Normal mages can't mind control either.

Mind control is a power I could intrust no one with. NO ONE.
Heck, in real-life I'm a pathetic goody-good-shoes who literaly avoids stepping on ants (I kid you not). And I'd never trust myself with that power. Nor my mother, or my sisters or my father or any living human.

Mind control is too tempting a power, to abusable.
And while having faith in your fellow men is understandalbe, there are limits to everything...including a mans ability to resist temptation. No one is truly completly incorruptable.

how do you know that these "regular" mages aren't in fact Blood Mages who have made you think they are just plain mages?

EDIT: there are also certain instances where mind control is ok. I refer you to the show No Ordinary Family, where the main family has superpowers. The daughter is able to read minds and implant a thought into a person's head and they follow it. Her boyfriend was beginning to suspect that her family had superpowers. However she had to keep implanting thoughts so that they could forget about it. but the boyfriend still had that thought and kept asking it, and she kept avoiding it through use of her powers so to keep her family safe.

Eventually, she confided in him because she couldn't deal with the constant use of her powers to keep things going and she knew it was about trust. Even after he was told, he said that all the trust she now put in him with that info was huge and he was glad she told him it, staying with her instead of leaving her.

Point made.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 04 mars 2011 - 10:48 .

[Sandy2009]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Sandy2009 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Sandy2009 wrote...

Has this thread reached any conclusion yet? As always the net result of all the discussion seems to be zero .

I am confused by this thread, and I don't like to be confused
because confusion makes my head disoriented, and I don't like to be disoriented
because disorentation makes me walk tipsy, and I don't like to walk tipsy
because walking tipsy makes other people confused, and I don't like to make other people confused
because confusion makes their head disoriented...   

Uh... you understand the problem.

so my nefarious plans are working! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...   the writers!

BTW, I am anxious to know what you think about the writing of "Lost" serial. It has been called one of the most original writing style of tv history. Did you like it, hated it, indifferent??? I like and hate it at the same time.

I could never get into Lost. When I tried to get into Lost, all that happened was that I was always lost. Also, I just lost the game. Plus I missed a lot of episodes due to me working at night sometimes, so that didn't help me out.

Well, that is writer's intent. They want you to feel lost, just like the characters are lost. The whole thing is built like an onion, You get to new layer, you think everything makes sense now but they throw in new information that again makes you doubt your mental model.  The audience loved it... it is a unique approach to telling the story (as I see from forums).

It is a gigantic serial, the begining seasons are intersting, middle parts are boring but ending is epic. The only way to I could get into it was to maintain continuity by either renting the dvds or download episodes from torrent (abc site had free episodes for US audience). Just forward the parts that are not interesting. Overall I would say it is a rewarding experience due to to the philosophical/religious under pinning of the story/characters. It gets deep into gods, evil, and epic struggle way beyond what you can resolve. Nobody understands everythings, because writers want it that way.

[TEWR]

I might check it out sometime. All the people at my school were obsessed with Lost. Even our senior year spanish teacher was. But right now I've got a lot of tv shows to watch, so it won't be anytime soon

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Blood mages don't exist and these people don't live in Thedas. They have never been subject to the powers of a blood mage or mind control.
If they did, they'd sing a different tune.

It was never up for debate whether blood mages were real or not, but we know there are fictional and real people who clearly don't automatically distrust blood mages simply because of the power they command.

Real people..who don't have real experience of living in Thedas or who don't know any blood mages.
Fiction is fiction.
In fiction one can write downright impossible things and personalities...from people with imposible levels of cluelesness, people uncorruptable by anything, and mary sues who's universe revolves around them.

Liking or disliking fictional characters is therefore not an argument. They are fictional. They can be perfect.
Professor Xavier can be written as a perfect, incorruptable individual wihout a flaw.

Reality is not perfect. Real humans are not.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...
It's not the issue of different abilties - it's the issue that the abiltiy in question undermines the very basics of what trust is.

I really dont' know how else to explain it. If you really can't see the interplay between mind control and trust, which is the product of your mind, which can be directly manipulated.

Puting such total trust of your life, and hte lives of others, into an individual that can play you like puppet wihout you even knowing...it's naive.

The problem I have with your argument isn't with the idea that some would distrust blood mages, but that all people should. You're pretty much saying anyone who would place trust in a blood mage is naive regardless of the circumstances, and I disagree with that assessment. We already know Grey Warden mages have turned to blood mage to defeat the darkspawn, and the purpose of their order is to defeat the darkspawn. Duncan counters the notion of blood magic being evil with the fact that Wardens have used it. The mage protagonist of the Magi Origin can argue that the illegal mage the templars were hunting likely used blood magic as a means of survival. I can see why some would mistrust blood mages, but I don't see why trust should be precluded from everyone simply because the person in question has abilities that we don't possess.

Yes, placing trust in a blood mage is naive. That might pay off...or you might think it pays off (mind control..lol)..but it remans naive.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

X-men and hte whole situation in there are rather stupid IMHO, but that's beside the point.
It's not bigotry..it's basic common sense and survival instinct.

Why is it stupid? The writer intentionally used mutants as a stand-in for outsiders, homosexuals, and minorities, which is what fantasy and science fiction have done when addressing real world issues. This was the premise developed by Chris Claremont through his story arcs. It's a concept that's changed over time with other writers.

Except that mutans and homosexuals are nothing alike. Apples and oranges.
Unlike homosexuals, mutants really are dangerous. Which is why teh allegory falls flat.
But enough of this...this isn't a thread about X-Men.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No, it's logic. You can't just dismiss it as oppinion because you don't like it.

Mind control is the most tempting power there is. It allow one do pretty much anything wihout getting caught.
Someone with mind control can fabricate your very thoughts. The very trust you feel can be implanted there.

How can there be trust in such a situation?
How can any sensible person put his life, and the life of those around him at stake?

It's like believing in the known laws of physics, when you know they can change on a whim.

It's not logic, though, it's a matter of opinion because your argument is subjective. People can be manipulated without the use of blood magic, and we already know there are mages who have used blood magic as a means to defeat the greatest threat Thedas has ever faced - the darkspawn. So I don't see why blood mages or blood magic should always be mistrusted when there are Grey Warden mages who are using such means against an enemy that wishes to destroy all life on the continent.

No, it's logic. Period.

Again with the Wadrens. I don't give a damn about the Wardens or Duncan.
Or if some Wardens where Blood Mages.

People can be manipulated without mind control, but it's not nearly the same. Not even close, and not nearly to the same extent, and not nearly as easy.
And while drinking darkspawn blood and lyrium may have proved usefull against the blight, mind control was harldy critical to the sucess of the Wardens..

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Did you even read what you quoted?
HOW DO YOU KNOW HE'S NOT USING THOSE ABILITIES ON YOU RIGHT NOW?
How do you know he's using those abilitites on the Darkspawn? In the presence of a blood mage, you cannot trust your own thoughts.

Yes, I quoted you using all bold to say trusting a blood mage is "foolish" and that this is "undeniable," but I disagreed. I addressed that since we know there are Grey Wardens who use blood magic as a means to defeat the darkspawn, then I don't see why trust in a blood mage should be viewed as foolish if we account for the mages who are using it as a means to defeating the greatest threat of their lifetime.

You disagreed? So what? There are people who disagree humans landed on the moon. There are peopel who claim Earth is 6000 years old. There are peopel disagreeing with reality and logic.
What's that supposed to prove?
"I disagree, therefore it is not logic"?
If that was the case, the nothing any man ever said was logic.

As for foolish? People also tend to do foolish things. While they often end up in disaster, sometimes, trough sheer luck or chance, they end up in sucess. Even a broken clock shows a proper time twice a day....

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
how do you know that these "regular" mages aren't in fact Blood Mages who have made you think they are just plain mages?

A regular person probably can't tell the difference.
I'd guess that's partialy the reason people distrust mages in general.

Again, I'm taking about proven blood mages.

EDIT: there are also certain instances where mind control is ok. I refer you to the show No Ordinary Family, where the main family has superpowers. The daughter is able to read minds and implant a thought into a person's head and they follow it. Her boyfriend was beginning to suspect that her family had superpowers. However she had to keep implanting thoughts so that they could forget about it. but the boyfriend still had that thought and kept asking it, and she kept avoiding it through use of her powers so to keep her family safe.

Eventually, she confided in him because she couldn't deal with the constant use of her powers to keep things going and she knew it was about trust. Even after he was told, he said that all the trust she now put in him with that info was huge and he was glad she told him it, staying with her instead of leaving her.

Point made.

Point of what?

You realise that with mind control, all that the things tehy boy thought, the decision of staying with her - could have also be implanted?
Also, the probme with mind control is it's tempting nature. I'd call it a corrupting power, because quite simply, I don't belive there is a human being alive that is able to resist that temptation for their whole life.

[TEWR]

uh no in the show he voluntarily chose those things. she said she would've understood if he wanted to leave. Voluntarily being the key word. It's always shown when she uses those powers.

and you may choose to believe that. that's all well and good. but that's like saying people are not able to refrain from sex their whole life because they see hot women all the time. People are not predictable. As Sten put it, people are not simple. they cannot be summed up. One blood mage may be different from another. However we have very few Blood Mage examples to turn to so far.

[LobselVith8]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Real people..who don't have real experience of living in Thedas or who don't know any blood mages.
Fiction is fiction.

In fiction one can write downright impossible things and personalities...from people with imposible levels of cluelesness, people uncorruptable by anything, and mary sues who's universe revolves around them.

Liking or disliking fictional characters is therefore not an argument. They are fictional. They can be perfect.
Professor Xavier can be written as a perfect, incorruptable individual wihout a flaw.

Reality is not perfect. Real humans are not.

The argument isn't that reality or humans are perfect. You're entitled to the opinion that people shouldn't trust blood mages, but it's not an absolute when we consider that blood mages are part of a canon universe where Wardens have used such magic not to harm others, but against a threat that can destroy everything. Why should all blood mages not be trusted when we know there are such individuals using their powers to save humanity from the darkspawn?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Yes, placing trust in a blood mage is naive. That might pay off...or you might think it pays off (mind control..lol)..but it remans naive.

If it might pay off, then doesn't it negate the idea that blood mages can never be trusted?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Except that mutans and homosexuals are nothing alike. Apples and oranges.
Unlike homosexuals, mutants really are dangerous. Which is why teh allegory falls flat.
But enough of this...this isn't a thread about X-Men.

Everyone is dangerous; everyone has the capacity to harm others.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

No, it's logic. Period.

Again with the Wadrens. I don't give a damn about the Wardens or Duncan.
Or if some Wardens where Blood Mages.

People can be manipulated without mind control, but it's not nearly the same. Not even close, and not nearly to the same extent, and not nearly as easy.
And while drinking darkspawn blood and lyrium may have proved usefull against the blight, mind control was harldy critical to the sucess of the Wardens..

You can't divorce the fact that there are Grey Warden mages who are also blood mages when discussing whether blood mages can be trusted or not. You might say blood magic isn't necessary, but if it can be used to stop the darkspawn (which is precisely what Duncan tells us), stop an enemy combatant from trying to kill you, or prevent someone like Vaughan from raping women, then I don't see the problem.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You disagreed? So what? There are people who disagree humans landed on the moon. There are peopel who claim Earth is 6000 years old. There are peopel disagreeing with reality and logic.
What's that supposed to prove?
"I disagree, therefore it is not logic"?
If that was the case, the nothing any man ever said was logic.

As for foolish? People also tend to do foolish things. While they often end up in disaster, sometimes, trough sheer luck or chance, they end up in sucess. Even a broken clock shows a proper time twice a day....

No, your statement is speculative, not factual. People aren't fools if they don't accept your premise that all blood mages can't be trusted.

Modifié par LobselVith8, 05 mars 2011 - 12:56 .

[1Nosphorus1]

You can't divorce the fact that there are Grey Warden mages who are also blood mages when discussing whether blood mages can be trusted or not. You might say mind control isn't necessary, but if it can be used to stop the darkspawn (which is precisely what Duncan tells us), stop an enemy combatant from trying to kill you, or prevent someone like Vaughan from raping women, then I don't see the problem.

Blood magic is far more than mind control, I'd probably say anything to do with messing with the blood is classed as so, hell even the joining (imo) should be classed as blood magic (Lyrium/Darkspawn Blood + Archdemon or a dose of strong darkspawn blood).

Avernus was able to extend his life almost indefinetely (Arland was king 200 years before Maric, and Avernus was probably middle aged around then), and not succombing to the darkspawn taint, research which leads towards the Power of Blood abilities (Diabolist) just goes to show that not all blood magic can be bad.
Although he did commit inhumane acts, but these laws are dictated by the chantry, as Avernus puts it, Chantry lies meant to subjecate the mages.

The power of blood has been used in many forms of media before, Diablorie is a hot topic in the Vampire the Masquerade universe, feeding on kine to inherit their strengths etc.

Modifié par 1Nosphorus1, 05 mars 2011 - 01:17 .

[MrDrycht]

Fairly sure it states in the lore that demons have nothing to do with blood magic , in fact it was lookedas a way to prevent the demonic influence but was looked down upon because it rrequired so much as fuel either from the caster or from others. Nothing to cite so I maybe wrong here

[1Nosphorus1]

MrDrycht wrote...

Fairly sure it states in the lore that demons have nothing to do with blood magic , in fact it was lookedas a way to prevent the demonic influence but was looked down upon because it rrequired so much as fuel either from the caster or from others. Nothing to cite so I maybe wrong here

Tevinter Imperium say that it was the Dragon's (Old Gods) who had taught their lead magister blood magic, although I'm unsure if this was before/after their imprisonment, or even if it's 100% true but that's as far as I can remember without reading into it.

[Lotion Soronarr]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

uh no in the show he voluntarily chose those things. she said she would've understood if he wanted to leave. Voluntarily being the key word. It's always shown when she uses those powers.

It's a show.
As  Isaid..perfect epople who never succumb to temptation exist only in fiction land.

and you may choose to believe that. that's all well and good. but that's like saying people are not able to refrain from sex their whole life because they see hot women all the time. People are not predictable. As Sten put it, people are not simple. they cannot be summed up. One blood mage may be different from another. However we have very few Blood Mage examples to turn to so far.

Yes. People are difference. Yet mind control is still too tempting for any man. No matter how "good" he may seem.

And people refraining from sex their whole life? That ispossible...however, the tension can still be released without sleeping with a woman. There is an outlet, if you so will.
And it's not as tempting as mind control...Nothing is.

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Real people..who don't have real experience of living in Thedas or who don't know any blood mages.
Fiction is fiction.

In fiction one can write downright impossible things and personalities...from people with imposible levels of cluelesness, people uncorruptable by anything, and mary sues who's universe revolves around them.

Liking or disliking fictional characters is therefore not an argument. They are fictional. They can be perfect.
Professor Xavier can be written as a perfect, incorruptable individual wihout a flaw.

Reality is not perfect. Real humans are not.

The argument isn't that reality or humans are perfect. You're entitled to the opinion that people shouldn't trust blood mages, but it's not an absolute when we consider that blood mages are part of a canon universe where Wardens have used such magic not to harm others, but against a threat that can destroy everything. Why should all blood mages not be trusted when we know there are such individuals using their powers to save humanity from the darkspawn?

Name me one known Warden that knew Mind Control.
And then tell me why I should trust him..because he's a Grey Warden? Pffft.

No one with powers over mind can be trusted. It's as simple as that.
And how do you know such power was not abused? You don't.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Yes, placing trust in a blood mage is naive. That might pay off...or you might think it pays off (mind control..lol)..but it remans naive.

If it might pay off, then doesn't it negate the idea that blood mages can never be trusted?

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Except that mutans and homosexuals are nothing alike. Apples and oranges.
Unlike homosexuals, mutants really are dangerous. Which is why teh allegory falls flat.
But enough of this...this isn't a thread about X-Men.

Everyone is dangerous; everyone has the capacity to harm others.

Apples nad oranges. A household cat and a liojn are both felines. Do you treat them both exactly the same?
There are a few sutpid/naive peopel that do. They most often ended up mauled by their "pet".

You can't divorce the fact that there are Grey Warden mages who are also blood mages when discussing whether blood mages can be trusted or not. You might say blood magic isn't necessary, but if it can be used to stop the darkspawn (which is precisely what Duncan tells us), stop an enemy combatant from trying to kill you, or prevent someone like Vaughan from raping women, then I don't see the problem.

You never do see the problems..that's your problem.

Again, I'm talking specificly about mind control here.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

You disagreed? So what? There are people who disagree humans landed on the moon. There are peopel who claim Earth is 6000 years old. There are peopel disagreeing with reality and logic.
What's that supposed to prove?
"I disagree, therefore it is not logic"?
If that was the case, the nothing any man ever said was logic.

As for foolish? People also tend to do foolish things. While they often end up in disaster, sometimes, trough sheer luck or chance, they end up in sucess. Even a broken clock shows a proper time twice a day....

No, your statement is speculative, not factual. People aren't fools if they don't accept your premise that all blood mages can't be trusted.

Factual..
To trust ones eyes with showing you truth when plugged in a VR setting, where everything is mellable by somoene else...is that not folly?
It is. You can try to deny it as much as you want, but trusting anyone with mind control is the height of stupidity.

[Emzamination]

Blood magic is an ancient evil magic  spawned from demons and taught to man.


Blood magic is Evil and anyone that says otherwise has fallen to the darkside and trying to take you with them .

Real mages don't need to dabble in the forbidden arts to reach arch mage level