500 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

Emzamination wrote...

Replay wardens keep and have a thorough conversation with avernus regarding blood magic.I'll not explain it here seeing as its a spoiler to the main plot but yes it reaffirms blood magic comes from demons.

As I said, speculation isn't fact. Nobody knows the truth, people have different ideas about what the truth is, and there's nothing concrete to show that blood magic has its inception from demons.

Emzamination wrote...

Just because the joining requires you invibing ds taint in their blood doesn't make it blood magic and Wardens keep Affirms that as well now that you mention it.

Warden's Keep doesn't re-affirm that. Witch Hunt illustrates that blood and magic = blood magic based on the conversation with Finn, so I don't see how you're going to claim the Joining, which involves two different types of darkspawn blood and magic, isn't blood magic.

[Emzamination]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I have seen Avernus mention nothing regarding Demons were the primary source of Blood Magic. He says that the Darkspawn taint is alien to them, because they've never encountered anything like it. Magic on the other hand is different. They encounter Mages every time one goes into the Fade, through dreaming or otherwise.

And if my body runs low on blood, I would think using a health poultice would be better than me needlessly using blood magic.

Lol what he said was He couldn't fight the demons with blood magic because they can counter every bit of lore he knew because they were the ones who gave it to man in the first place.

7:03

As for the poultices I can't argue that

[TEWR]

Avernus hasn't been on Thedas long enough to know for certain. If he had been alive since the time of the Tevinter Imperium, sure. But he's only a few centuries old.

maybe it did come from demons. maybe it came from Dumat, the Old God of Silence (why a god of silence would speak to humans I don't know. seems inconsistent).

i'm not saying it's not possible, but I am saying is that no one knows. Not even Avernus.

[Emzamination]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Avernus hasn't been on Thedas long enough to know for certain. If he had been alive since the time of the Tevinter Imperium, sure. But he's only a few centuries old.

maybe it did come from demons. maybe it came from Dumat, the Old God of Silence (why a god of silence would speak to humans I don't know. seems inconsistent).

i'm not saying it's not possible, but I am saying is that no one knows. Not even Avernus.

I said he reaffirms it

Someone else close to the redcliff quest (I forget who) says the exact same thing and there is even a codex entry on it tho thats just too much work to go looking for.

Besides all that blood magic is the ONLY magic that can summon demons

Put 2 and 2 together.

[TEWR]

Emzamination wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Avernus hasn't been on Thedas long enough to know for certain. If he had been alive since the time of the Tevinter Imperium, sure. But he's only a few centuries old.

maybe it did come from demons. maybe it came from Dumat, the Old God of Silence (why a god of silence would speak to humans I don't know. seems inconsistent).

i'm not saying it's not possible, but I am saying is that no one knows. Not even Avernus.

I said he reaffirms it

Someone else close to the redcliff quest (I forget who) says the exact same thing and there is even a codex entry on it tho thats just too much work to go looking for.

Besides all that blood magic is the ONLY magic that can summon demons

Put 2 and 2 together.

the codex on Blood magic says nothing about it originating from demons. And I don't think there was anyone near Redcliffe who talked about that. Yes blood magic is the only magic that can summon demons, but that's not relevant to the origin of it.

for me to put those 2 and 2 together I'd have to be like Branka and make it 50

[TheCreeper]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Blood magic is using any magical means to alter a person's life, benevolent or not. There are grey areas, as Finn states with the Lights of Arlathan, and the Templars using phylacteries to hunt down mages.

Blood Magic is about more than just "let me boil your blood from the inside and make you explode everywhere into a big pool of goopy flesh!"

For one thing that sounds closer to walking bomb than blood wound.

[TEWR]

meh, i remember a blood mage ability that had a description of "boiling your enemies blood". The rest I may have exaggerated

[Emzamination]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Emzamination wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Avernus hasn't been on Thedas long enough to know for certain. If he had been alive since the time of the Tevinter Imperium, sure. But he's only a few centuries old.

maybe it did come from demons. maybe it came from Dumat, the Old God of Silence (why a god of silence would speak to humans I don't know. seems inconsistent).

i'm not saying it's not possible, but I am saying is that no one knows. Not even Avernus.

I said he reaffirms it

Someone else close to the redcliff quest (I forget who) says the exact same thing and there is even a codex entry on it tho thats just too much work to go looking for.

Besides all that blood magic is the ONLY magic that can summon demons

Put 2 and 2 together.

the codex on Blood magic says nothing about it originating from demons. And I don't think there was anyone near Redcliffe who talked about that. Yes blood magic is the only magic that can summon demons, but that's not relevant to the origin of it.

for me to put those 2 and 2 together I'd have to be like Branka and make it 50

I wasn't talking about the blood magic codex but again I'm too lazy to go look it up.

You also said wardens keep never talked about it.

I suggest you and LobselVith8 do a thorough playthrough and brush up on your lore ser. 

[LobselVith8]

Emzamination wrote...

I said he reaffirms it

Someone else close to the redcliff quest (I forget who) says the exact same thing and there is even a codex entry on it tho thats just too much work to go looking for.

Nathaniel and Velanna have a discussion in Awakening over the immortality of the ancient elves. Velanna believes it's true, but Nathaniel addresses that there's nothing to prove that it's historically accurate. Just like the Chantry teachings that Tevinter caused the Blights, or how demons taught humanity about blood magic, there's nothing to prove it's historically accurate. And the codex entries are written by the people of Thedas and prone to bias; this is made clear by the two distinct codex entries on the Dales; one from the Orlesian perspective, and the other Dalish perspective.

[TEWR]

 I'm not one to take the opinions and speculation of a 300 year old man seriously when everyone else doesn't even know where blood magic came from. Give me a dev comment or another 300 year old mage saying the same thing, then I'll reconsider my stance.

if not the blood magic codex, what codex was it? just give me the name of it.

edit: bah, useless wording

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 mars 2011 - 02:51 .

[Ziggeh]

LobselVith8 wrote...

so I don't see how you're going to claim the Joining, which involves two different types of darkspawn blood and magic, isn't blood magic.

It also contains large amounts of taint. Is it taint magic as well?

[LobselVith8]

Ziggeh wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

so I don't see how you're going to claim the Joining, which involves two different types of darkspawn blood and magic, isn't blood magic.

It also contains large amounts of taint. Is it taint magic as well?

If it's established that blood magic involves blood and magic via Witch Hunt, it's not too difficult to conclude that a process involving magic and two different types of blood is therefore blood magic.

[Mezinger]

Yes, it is inherently bad, the Chantry is right to be concerned about it... But they are just a little too untrustworthy of all mages.... not all mages are blood mages after all... they need to lighten up, that's my vote. But yes blood magic is essentially the dark side of the force... it shouldn't be a surprise as a common place to learn it is from demon's from the fade... and I'm not talking about the benevolent ones here.

[Ziggeh]

LobselVith8 wrote...

If it's established that blood magic involves blood and magic via Witch Hunt, it's not too difficult to conclude that a process involving magic and two different types of blood is therefore blood magic.

Right, but it's also been established that the taint is a source of magic, so we can, with that same logic, conclude that if it involves magic and the taint that it is taint magic.

[Sandy2009]

Not to change topics, but I have a simple question, since there are many wise people in this thread.

Why do only some people survive the joining cermony? What was different about othe other guy who drank the blood and did not survive?

[TEWR]

Sandy2009 wrote...

Not to change topics, but I have a simple question, since there are many wise people in this thread.

Why do only some people survive the joining cermony? What was different about othe other guy who drank the blood and did not survive?

most likely it has to do with willpower, luck, fate, and many other things as Darkspawn blood is incredibly poisonous. The lyrium must weaken it's poison somewhat, though not enough to make it non-fatal, so there is still the high risk of people dying.

edit: by willpower I don't mean the game's idea of willpower, where you have a pool of stamina/mana. not that type of willpower

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 mars 2011 - 07:44 .

[Huntress]

Sandy2009 wrote...

Not to change topics, but I have a simple question, since there are many wise people in this thread.

Why do only some people survive the joining cermony? What was different about othe other guy who drank the blood and did not survive?

Has something to do with the willpower of that person. Lets put it this way:

Some people can eat peanut's, others just can't they get really sick and if no rush to a hospital they may die.

[Sandy2009]

Huntress wrote...

Sandy2009 wrote...

Not to change topics, but I have a simple question, since there are many wise people in this thread.

Why do only some people survive the joining cermony? What was different about othe other guy who drank the blood and did not survive?

Has something to do with the willpower of that person. Lets put it this way:

Some people can eat peanut's, others just can't they get really sick and if no rush to a hospital they may die.

most likely it has to do with willpower, luck, fate, and many other things as Darkspawn blood is incredibly poisonous. The lyrium must weaken it's poison somewhat, though not enough to make it non-fatal, so there is still the high risk of people dying.

edit: by willpower I don't mean the game's idea of willpower, where you have a pool of stamina/mana. not that type of willpower

Thanks... makes sense. So this is more like a physical resistance test. Taint has some poison, some people can survive that poison, just like some people can suvive infection. It is purely physical, has nothing to do with magic or fade. There is no blood magic in this (some previous posts).

Modifié par Sandy2009, 01 mars 2011 - 08:11 .

[Ziggeh]

I think it's narrative causality.

[TEWR]

no it's still blood magic, but it's a very hard idea to fully explain. But you're right though, it deals more with the physical resistance than anything else.

@Ziggeh: My dwarf could kick your dwarf's ass

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 01 mars 2011 - 08:16 .

[Nemis-Roidsavelt]

No. Blood magic is good. Dont believe the lies of the jedi. Join the Dark Side!!!!!!

[Augustei]

My warden smashed the vial of blood in wardens keep and killed Avernus.. Those were his bretheren that Avernus killed.. Fellow Grey Wardens.. he wasn't gonna let that stand =P He was in love with a blood mage though (Made Morrigan go blood mage spec) and he had a blood mage friend as well (Anders took spec as well.. I just love the blood mage spec =D)

Idk about blood magic being real. But half of the practice of Maleficarum is definitly not evil, so when the chantry says something is evil dont take their word for it

I mean, How does shapeshifting harm anyone anyway? It doesn't
They would no doubt call the Arcane Warrior Maleficarum as well since they dont know it and it was practiced by "Heathens" but is there evidence that it is evil? None at all.. Blood Magic involves using life force however and was taught by demons.. Demons seem evil, Using Life Force could be considered evil... It depends on the situation its used in..

Using innocents life force to power your magic, slaves, unwilling people pretty much.. Evil.
Using say, a darkspawns life force or a dying person or a demons.. Not evil =D

[Lotion Soronarr]

LobselVith8 wrote...

JamesX wrote...

What you posted was not about the Gray Warden sacrifing himself.  What you quoted is someone mudering someoelse achieving great good making the act of murder a very good thing.

Putting an end to women getting raped and people getting eaten by darkspawn and the total destruction of the enviornment by an irrevocable threat that forever turns land desolate is a good thing, James, but I can see we're not going to agree on this issue.

Dear Lord.

Mind sking the woman you killed how she feels about it?
Evil is evil - even if it's done for a good cause.
Now, SELF-sacrifice is another thing. But one person sacrificing another, against their will?

But I'm surprised you of all people hold this oppinion. You are saying that sacrificing a few to save the many is a good thing.
Wow..the chantry and the templars ae gonna be glad to hear this.
Apparently confining mages is no longer a necessary evil, ti is now a good thing.


EDIT:

D.G. didn't say plachyietries were blood magic. He said they might be viewed as blood magic. That is not a confirmation.

Modifié par Lotion Soronnar, 02 mars 2011 - 02:04 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Regarding blood magic - I fall back to the most basic of logic here.


Anyone who can mind control people is NOT someone that can be trusted. EVER.

How can you trust him, when that trust might only be a illusions, something he put in your head? For all you know, he can be doing your wife every night..and doing you..and you wake up with your butt feeling stiff, but can't remember why...


Trusting anyone with mind control power is illogical and foolish.
Hence why such power should not be allowed.

[Zeroed55]

Eh. I take Kyle Katarn's stance on most powers, blood magic included:

"None of your powers are inherently good or evil. It's how you use them that counts."

That can apply to Blood Magic as well, as long as no pacts with demons are involved, and you are using your own blood, not blood you gained through sacrifice.

The Grey Wardens get the idea. It's not evil in itself, it's another weapon with which to fight the Darkspawn.

The negative connotions with Blood Magic stem from the fact many Blood Mages are also diabloists, making pacts with demons, or utilize sacrifice to gain their power, in favor of using their own blood.

Modifié par Zeroed55, 02 mars 2011 - 02:25 .