257 réponses à ce sujet

[ObserverStatus]

No, Bioware doesn't hate healing mages, but the maker does.

[Buffy-Summers]

BeardedNinja wrote...

Buffy-Summers wrote...

Removing all the healing isnt tactical its neutering half of the value of mages

Maybe we should critical attacks that would make rogues way more tactical

Maybe we should remove armor for warriors, now the tactics is just flying all over the place

6m aura is tiny

What do they want me, in the pocket of the armored ogre fiend while my friends hit it with sticks a few hundred times

Seems like the only response was "more tactical"

I guess its more tactical by limiting options, is less really more?

Well you asked and people answered w/ what they thought, sorry if it wasnt what you were looking for.

Well i had hoped for more varied rationale not a constant  parroting of the same bioware reason

Phoenixblight wrote...

 

 First the shared poultice cooldown

Source? Because in the demo they do not share a CD each character has its own CD for potions. 

Not between character but potions, supposedly you drink a health potion any potion and your cool down is for any health potion, any stamina potion or lyrium potion

[upsettingshorts]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

I guess its more tactical by limiting options, is less really more?

In this case, yes. 

I'll use the Total War games as an example.  If I have horse archers they aren't really in danger of being charged by cavalry or foot soldiers because they can simply retreat and reform quickly.  But if I have regular archers I might have to compensate for their weakness in mobility by placing spikes infront of them, or using spearmen to shield them, etc.  

Healing being more limited demands we use more tools.  In the demo I compensated by ensuring my characters had raised Cunning (so their defense was around 40-50% with just a point or two invested) and other abilities like Heroic Aura.  As a result I simply didn't need to spam healing because my characters took less damage.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 28 février 2011 - 06:08 .

[Duros]

No they want healers and support abilities to be important, no just spammed willy-nilly like in origins.

[Saphara]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

BeardedNinja wrote...

Buffy-Summers wrote...

Removing all the healing isnt tactical its neutering half of the value of mages

Maybe we should critical attacks that would make rogues way more tactical

Maybe we should remove armor for warriors, now the tactics is just flying all over the place

6m aura is tiny

What do they want me, in the pocket of the armored ogre fiend while my friends hit it with sticks a few hundred times

Seems like the only response was "more tactical"

I guess its more tactical by limiting options, is less really more?

Well you asked and people answered w/ what they thought, sorry if it wasnt what you were looking for.

Well i had hoped for more varied rationale not a constant  parroting of the same bioware reason

wait, so when we say what we truely feel and it doesnt happen to go along with you, its "parroting", and only YOUR rationale is the right one?

[Phoenixblight]

Buffy-Summers wrote...



Not between character but potions, supposedly you drink a health potion any potion and your cool down is for any health potion, any stamina potion or lyrium potion

Oh then /shrug it doesn't bother me pick up mana drain or Death Syphon if you feel its too restrictive. 

[Sharn01]

rwilli80 wrote...

I can see the long cool down time for the healing spell, but the long wait between the poultice is ridiculous. I mean they are little jugs, if the player wants his character to down three or four in a row I don't see why Bioware has to dictate other wise.

This is exactly what I hate about most games potion use, they should not always be there for you to use at any time.  I personally think there should be a little bit of magic involved in making healing potions, its not like you can eat an orange and watch your wounds close.  A potion should be a heal in a bottle with the right combination of herbs and liquids to keep the magic contained that is more difficult to make then a mage simply casting a spell, but would be handy when the mage isnt there or cant get a heal off.

[Chuvvy]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think they've said they want healing to be more tactical than just spamming heals.

Oh, they're confusing tactical with ridiculous and restrictive.

[Buffy-Summers]

Saphara wrote...

wait, so when we say what we truely feel and it doesnt happen to go along with you, its "parroting", and only YOUR rationale is the right one?

My rationale is dont neuter mages just so your game is hard

Everyone elses rationale is healing was too strong in dao,  mages have to be chopped in 1/2 for the game to be hard!

Couldnt something else have been done for the game to be "more tactical"

[Duros]

Slidell505 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think they've said they want healing to be more tactical than just spamming heals.

Oh, they're confusing tactical with ridiculous and restrictive.

DA2 is about avoiding damage through other abilities, with short cds and durations.

Unlike origins with its stacks of sustainables and AoE heals.

[Saphara]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

Saphara wrote...

wait, so when we say what we truely feel and it doesnt happen to go along with you, its "parroting", and only YOUR rationale is the right one?

My rationale is dont neuter mages just so your game is hard

Everyone elses rationale is healing was too strong in dao,  mages have to be chopped in 1/2 for the game to be hard!

Couldnt something else have been done for the game to be "more tactical"

Like what? You already make enemies stronger by increasing difficulty. They have now included melee AoE as friendly fire. Other enemies later in the game might have different abilites you have to watch out for.  You can also move out of the way using evasive abilities. I just see this as a logical step.

Modifié par Saphara, 28 février 2011 - 06:18 .

[Buffy-Summers]

Duros wrote...

DA2 is about avoiding damage through other abilities, with short cds and durations.

Unlike origins with its stacks of sustainables and AoE heals.

And what was wrong with origins that made them flip the entire game on its ear?

[BeardedNinja]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

Duros wrote...

DA2 is about avoiding damage through other abilities, with short cds and durations.

Unlike origins with its stacks of sustainables and AoE heals.

And what was wrong with origins that made them flip the entire game on its ear?

Pretty safe to say all the things the Devs changed for this game was wrong w/ the last. Just my humle opinion, otherwise they would'nt have changed it.

[Vaeliorin]

I don't have a problem with healing being restricted, but I'd rather have a 10% heal (15% with upgrade) on a 10 second cooldown than a 40% heal (60% with upgrade) on a 40 second cooldown. The former allows me to handle multiple characters taking damage, while the latter only allows me to handle one party member taking damage.

I just prefer smaller, consistent heals over one big nuke heal.

[djwyattwood]

Duros wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think they've said they want healing to be more tactical than just spamming heals.

Oh, they're confusing tactical with ridiculous and restrictive.

DA2 is about avoiding damage through other abilities, with short cds and durations.

Unlike origins with its stacks of sustainables and AoE heals.

Is there a tactic for me to tell my companions "If going to get hit with big attack, GTFO"?

[Saphara]

djwyattwood wrote...

Duros wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think they've said they want healing to be more tactical than just spamming heals.

Oh, they're confusing tactical with ridiculous and restrictive.

DA2 is about avoiding damage through other abilities, with short cds and durations.

Unlike origins with its stacks of sustainables and AoE heals.

Is there a tactic for me to tell my companions "If going to get hit with big attack, GTFO"?

Pause, take control of character, move said character out of the way/ use evasive / defensive abilities?

Modifié par Saphara, 28 février 2011 - 06:23 .

[djwyattwood]

Saphara wrote...

djwyattwood wrote...

Duros wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think they've said they want healing to be more tactical than just spamming heals.

Oh, they're confusing tactical with ridiculous and restrictive.

DA2 is about avoiding damage through other abilities, with short cds and durations.

Unlike origins with its stacks of sustainables and AoE heals.

Is there a tactic for me to tell my companions "If going to get hit with big attack, GTFO"?

Pause, take control of character, move said character out of the way?

Why can't my companions be as smart as I am or smarter? Hell, if they get to choose their own weapons and armor, they should be able to tell when they're getting hit.

Modifié par djwyattwood, 28 février 2011 - 06:24 .

[upsettingshorts]

djwyattwood wrote...

Is there a tactic for me to tell my companions "If going to get hit with big attack, GTFO"?

Yes.

If Self Health <25%, Switch to Tactic, and then switch to a Tactic that uses a different mentality like Ranged or Cautious.  Then they'll kite on their own, I saw Bethany and Varric both do that.

Then in the kiting tactic, add something about how if Self Health gets high enough they revert to normal Tactics.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 28 février 2011 - 06:26 .

[AustinKain]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

Duros wrote...

DA2 is about avoiding damage through other abilities, with short cds and durations.

Unlike origins with its stacks of sustainables and AoE heals.

And what was wrong with origins that made them flip the entire game on its ear?

 

The fact you could: cast heal.,drink heal pot.cast heal,draink lyrium pot, cast heal, drink heal pot, cast heal,drink lyrium pot ....wash rinse repeat.    There is nothing tactical or fun about that unless you are horrible at building charcters and teams.

[Eurypterid]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

Duros wrote...

DA2 is about avoiding damage through other abilities, with short cds and durations.

Unlike origins with its stacks of sustainables and AoE heals.

And what was wrong with origins that made them flip the entire game on its ear?

The problem, from what I understand, was that in DA:O damage and mana were almost trivial because you could instantly heal/top up mana by chain-chugging potions. It wasn't what the devs had in mind. They decided to adjust things in DA2 to be more in line with what they intended for the gameplay.

Personally, I like it, although I think the cool down between castings of Heal is slightly too long. As for potions, I think a better method (not sure if something like this could be implemented) would have beena  timer on the first potion. If you drink another of the same type before the timer runs out, the next potion is much less effective.

For example, you drink a heal pot and then immediately chug another. The second one only heals about 30% of the health the first one did. If you chug another, you get only about 10% and so on until the timer runs out. Another thing might have been toxicity. Chug too many in a row and you run a greater and greater chance of poisoning your character and losing a ton of health. But I digres...

[djwyattwood]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

djwyattwood wrote...

Is there a tactic for me to tell my companions "If going to get hit with big attack, GTFO"?

Yes.

If Self Health <25%, Switch to Tactic, and then switch to a Tactic that uses a different mentality like Ranged or Cautious.

This isn't what we are talking about. This is about avoiding big damage not running away after being damaged.

[Saphara]

djwyattwood wrote...

Saphara wrote...

djwyattwood wrote...

Duros wrote...

Slidell505 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think they've said they want healing to be more tactical than just spamming heals.

Oh, they're confusing tactical with ridiculous and restrictive.

DA2 is about avoiding damage through other abilities, with short cds and durations.

Unlike origins with its stacks of sustainables and AoE heals.

Is there a tactic for me to tell my companions "If going to get hit with big attack, GTFO"?

Pause, take control of character, move said character out of the way?

Why can't my companions be as smart as I am or smarter? Hell, if they get to choose their own weapons and armor, they should be able to tell when they're getting hit.

That isnt tactical so much as being lazy if you're going to rely on your companions to do EVERYTHING. Plus, they wouldnt really be party members then so much as NPCs that you have no control over.

[maselphie]

A healer should heal. Otherwise, don't have a branch dedicated to it. It shouldn't matter if the spell heals HP or takes it away, it's the mage's purpose in life. You take away their spells, they're a goddamned sitting duck. That is NOT FUN.

So arguments for the huge cooldown don't make sense. They seem to be coming from a standpoint of only an NPC being a healer, when the player himself may choose to be one. This heavily discourages it, because they've turned the healer into the clunky, slow WTF-fest of the archer from DA:O. I know it's weird, guys, but not everyone wants to play the same class as you.

[Saphara]

maselphie wrote...

A healer should heal. Otherwise, don't have a branch dedicated to it. It shouldn't matter if the spell heals HP or takes it away, it's the mage's purpose in life. You take away their spells, they're a goddamned sitting duck. That is NOT FUN.

So arguments for the huge cooldown don't make sense. They seem to be coming from a standpoint of only an NPC being a healer, when the player himself may choose to be one. This heavily discourages it, because they've turned the healer into the clunky, slow WTF-fest of the archer from DA:O. I know it's weird, guys, but not everyone wants to play the same class as you.

sitting duck? I recall that cone of cold still freezes, mind blast still knocks enemies silly, and probably other spells that let a mage delay until something else pops

[asaiasai]

That is bull**** you could never NEVER spam heals in DAO anyway you COULD chug potions but only if they were different sizes though. I have no idea what the deal is with the assault on healing, IMHO it is probably a cheap mechanic to compensate for poor encounter design like in ME2. What difference does it make in how a mage uses thier mana bar? A mage can use the mana for offensive spells or heals, used apropriately either has tactical implication. What is really the difference in spamming fire balls out of your ass, or spamming heals out of your ass, i say there is none. Fireballs are DPS, heals are anti DPS and unless you lack vision this should have been apparent to you as in either case the tactics are just from different ends of the spectrum, that is ALL.

Asai