257 réponses à ce sujet

[darklordpocky-san]

so instead of wanting to heal as a precaution, it's now it's a cheapskate decision?

Carver: "sis, I'm dying here, I need healing!"

Alma Hawke: "well we're low on MP, Poulstices and I want to cast a fire spell. . . sooooooooo. . . you guys are just going to have to wait til you're ALMOST dead"

*Carver Dies*

Alma Hawke: "hmmm. . . atleast I saved on those poulstices"

[Felfenix]

Slidell505 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I think they've said they want healing to be more tactical than just spamming heals.

Oh, they're confusing tactical with ridiculous and restrictive.

Yes, that's the exact reason. All other explanations can't possibly be valid. Thanks, Genius.

[djwyattwood]

Saphara wrote...

That isnt tactical so much as being lazy if you're going to rely on your companions to do EVERYTHING. Plus, they wouldnt really be party members then so much as NPCs that you have no control over.

So you are saying that if a child knows not to touch a stove these people shouldn't know how to not stand in fire? or move when an ogre prepares for a masive attack? It's not laziness, its being realistic. I would rather have 100 tactic for each companion then have to pause and move them like they are unable spell their name.

[Crocodiles]

I don't mind the long cooldowns at all, just having to activate healing aura to use group heal. I did notice that the spirit healer tree has two passives, and healing aura has two upgrades, maybe one of those negates the no offensive casting problem

[maselphie]

Saphara wrote...

sitting duck? I recall that cone of cold still freezes, mind blast still knocks enemies silly, and probably other spells that let a mage delay until something else pops 

They have recharge times, too. Can't spam those either. Assuming you HAVE those spells. There is no ONE build. The point with the Healer, if they go pure creation, is that they don't have all those fun little freezes and stuns. They have a bar full of grayed out icons. You're missing my point though, it's not about living or dying, it's about what's fun. Mages with no spells are not fun.

Modifié par maselphie, 28 février 2011 - 06:34 .

[Buffy-Summers]

AustinKain wrote...

Buffy-Summers wrote...

Duros wrote...

DA2 is about avoiding damage through other abilities, with short cds and durations.

Unlike origins with its stacks of sustainables and AoE heals.

And what was wrong with origins that made them flip the entire game on its ear?

 

The fact you could: cast heal.,drink heal pot.cast heal,draink lyrium pot, cast heal, drink heal pot, cast heal,drink lyrium pot ....wash rinse repeat.    There is nothing tactical or fun about that unless you are horrible at building charcters and teams.

There is nothing tactical and fun about a mage being a one dimensional glass cannon either

[BeardedNinja]

djwyattwood wrote...

Saphara wrote...

That isnt tactical so much as being lazy if you're going to rely on your companions to do EVERYTHING. Plus, they wouldnt really be party members then so much as NPCs that you have no control over.

So you are saying that if a child knows not to touch a stove these people shouldn't know how to not stand in fire? or move when an ogre prepares for a masive attack? It's not laziness, its being realistic. I would rather have 100 tactic for each companion then have to pause and move them like they are unable spell their name.

Did you play the demo? Did you see the party members dodge the ogre as it charged at them? ( they do) so I'm fairly certain that they will take certain percausions in other such battles later in the game.

[AustinKain]

After reading through this thread its easy to see who the people are that have played mages/clerics/healers for year in rpgs, and who are the kind that want to just hack away and never have to look at thier health bar.

To those that have spent years as a caster of any kind I salute you and your ability to think tacticaly even if the game doesnt call for it.

To those that want to hack away and never have to think i will gladly pour a healing pot over your grave when you are gone.

[AustinKain]

Hope this isnt a double post, but we havent been given access to the spirit healer tree yet so all of this is ****ing and moaning about the heal spell is pointless.

[Blessed Silence]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

First the shared poultice cooldown

Then the long cool down on poultices

And now you cant even cast a healing spell  and then anything but a healing spell


Whats going on Bioware?

Are you chantry templars in disguise?

Blood magic sustained wasnt bad enough you had to make a healing magic sustained as well

You know people arent going to just be a dedicated healer

You know that people are now just going to have to cast healing aura, cast heal, remove healing aura

You did nothing except excerbate carpel tunnel or force people to keep just one healer in the party at all times

http://dragonage.wik..._(Dragon_Age_II)

Healing Aura
Sustained
Range: 6m
Health regeneration rate: +50% for all party members
Upkeep: 30%
Cooldown: 10s
While this mode is active, the mage can
use spirit healer spells and becomes a locus for restorative energies,
increasing the natural healing of all allies within the aura. The mage
cannot cast any offensive spell for the duration of the effect.
 

Nonsense ... I did a playthrough in DA:O where all I did was heal.  I may have taken other abilities but didn't use them much.

And how can you or anyone else get all in arms when you say like .. 15 minutes or less of the gameplay?  Heck I'll save my thoughts for when it is out.

[Leonia]

If you're good at the game, you won't need much healing. Use some crowd control, manage your party a bit better, think ahead a bit instead of relying on the "oh crap I wasn't paying attention for the whole fight and now I am almost dead, reaching for my instant-heal" button now.

But seriously, be glad there are potions at all. They could have made things a lot harder than they did, I think this is a happy compromise.

If that's too much, play on casual mode.

Honestly, I am playing Origins right now on Nightmare mode as a Spirt-Healer/Blood-mage and I rarely feel the need to pop potions or rely on direct heals (I do use the regeneration healing spells and similar buffs regularly). It's not that hard, really. There's more to the game than auto-attack and instant-heals. The tactic system in Origins was fantastic and there are even mods that improve it. I suspect DA2 will be just as awesome in that department.

@Esbatty: Your Oprah comment had me rolling! So true.

[Saphara]

maselphie wrote...

Saphara wrote...

sitting duck? I recall that cone of cold still freezes, mind blast still knocks enemies silly, and probably other spells that let a mage delay until something else pops 

They have recharge times, too. Can't spam those either. Assuming you HAVE those spells. There is no ONE build. The point with the Healer, if they go pure creation, is that they don't have all those fun little freezes and stuns. They have a bar full of grayed out icons. You're missing my point though, it's not about living or dying, it's about what's fun. Mages with no spells are not fun.

You can still go full creation AND pick up other things ya knnow. There will be enough points. Plus, if you start out as a mage, you do have mind blast no matter what. I think Beth starts out with Cone of Cold, if not i still had enough time to get that AND heal by the time ogre arrived\\ in the demo.

[djwyattwood]

BeardedNinja wrote...

Did you play the demo? Did you see the party members dodge the ogre as it charged at them? ( they do) so I'm fairly certain that they will take certain percausions in other such battles later in the game.

I did and I did not notice if it happened. Consdering the demo was faceroll easy, I wasn't micro'ing anybody to see what they were doing.

[maselphie]

Saphara wrote...

You can still go full creation AND pick up other things ya knnow. There will be enough points. Plus, if you start out as a mage, you do have mind blast no matter what. I think Beth starts out with Cone of Cold, if not i still had enough time to get that AND heal by the time ogre arrived in the demo.

I fully understand that, but that's what I'm saying: the game discourages being a healer. You NEED to buy certain spells. You don't have the CHOICE. If you're going to wrist-slap someone for making a certain build that will make gameplay easier, then don't allow any goddamned customization, because I'm going to invest points into my character that will help the game be easier. That's the point of leveling up. If the game is too easy, it's likely not a spell's fault. And if it is, there are other ways to go about limiting it (mana) than simply giving us NO CHOICE.

[upsettingshorts]

AustinKain wrote...

i will gladly pour a healing pot over your grave when you are gone.

I lol'd.

[Saphara]

maselphie wrote...

Saphara wrote...

You can still go full creation AND pick up other things ya knnow. There will be enough points. Plus, if you start out as a mage, you do have mind blast no matter what. I think Beth starts out with Cone of Cold, if not i still had enough time to get that AND heal by the time ogre arrived in the demo.

I fully understand that, but that's what I'm saying: the game discourages being a healer. You NEED to buy certain spells. You don't have the CHOICE. If you're going to wrist-slap someone for making a certain build that will make gameplay easier, then don't allow any goddamned customization, because I'm going to invest points into my character that will help the game be easier. That's the point of leveling up. If the game is too easy, it's likely not a spell's fault. And if it is, there are other ways to go about limiting it (mana) than simply giving us NO CHOICE.

I see your point, especially being a healer at heart in any game i do. The Heal CD did annoy me, especially when Carver went down like a wet paper bag and Beth had sacrificed herself. The CD is a bit harsh, but I'll adjust.

Besides, you know if the toolset is ever tweaked, that'll be one of the first mods out

[Xeyska]

maselphie wrote...
I fully understand that, but that's what I'm saying: the game discourages being a healer. You NEED to buy certain spells. You don't have the CHOICE. If you're going to wrist-slap someone for making a certain build that will make gameplay easier, then don't allow any goddamned customization, because I'm going to invest points into my character that will help the game be easier. That's the point of leveling up. If the game is too easy, it's likely not a spell's fault. And if it is, there are other ways to go about limiting it (mana) than simply giving us NO CHOICE.

This is why I'm hoping they'll release a toolset, so I can edit some of the spells.

[Leonia]

maselphie wrote...

Saphara wrote...

You can still go full creation AND pick up other things ya knnow. There will be enough points. Plus, if you start out as a mage, you do have mind blast no matter what. I think Beth starts out with Cone of Cold, if not i still had enough time to get that AND heal by the time ogre arrived in the demo.

I fully understand that, but that's what I'm saying: the game discourages being a healer. You NEED to buy certain spells. You don't have the CHOICE. If you're going to wrist-slap someone for making a certain build that will make gameplay easier, then don't allow any goddamned customization, because I'm going to invest points into my character that will help the game be easier. That's the point of leveling up. If the game is too easy, it's likely not a spell's fault. And if it is, there are other ways to go about limiting it (mana) than simply giving us NO CHOICE.

A wrist-slap? Don't play the victim card here. You have the choice to have creation spells, if you don't pick them up that's your fault. Not the game's. The game doesn't tell you how to customise. What things do you think you NEED to have? Every player is going to answer that question differently, every playstyle is different.

There's more than one way to play a healer you guys, really.

To claim there is no choice here is to turn a blind eye on what choices you've actually been given.

I'd argue that levelling-up isn't a system of "making the game easier". It might make the game more enjoyable and tactically interesting as you advance by providing the illusion of "ease" due to having more skills/abilities at your disposal, sure. But if you really want a walk-through-the-park easy experience.. the difficulty metre is right over there.

[Blablabla79]

Saphara wrote...
...
Heal hasnt been "removed". You just have to be smarter about when to use it, when to activate the aura, when to use the heal pot for maximum effectiveness, ect...

Maximum effectiveness? How about before you die? Uninterruptable healing or potion jugging can not be tactical. If it has a cooldown, use it shortly before you would die, particularly if it is instant healing. If it is healing over time use it earlier. 

Guild Wars is tactical, even the healing, but has fast recharging healing and damaging abilities and spells, because GW also has many interrupts, ways to remove enchantments etc...

[Leonia]

Here's an idea: don't get in a situation where you need to be pulled out of the fire and you won't get burned.

[Saphara]

Blablabla79 wrote...

Saphara wrote...
...
Heal hasnt been "removed". You just have to be smarter about when to use it, when to activate the aura, when to use the heal pot for maximum effectiveness, ect...

Maximum effectiveness? How about before you die? Uninterruptable healing or potion jugging can not be tactical. If it has a cooldown, use it shortly before you would die, particularly if it is instant healing. If it is healing over time use it earlier. 

Guild Wars is tactical, even the healing, but has fast recharging healing and damaging abilities and spells, because GW also has many interrupts, ways to remove enchantments etc...

Problem, I told carver to chug a pot because my Heal was on CD. He either did not due to auto attack bug, or couldnt in time. So "right before you die" may not actually be the best time. I;d argue half health, when getting pounded on, would be better and is what i should have done instead of wating  Besides, there may be fights in the future that arnt so cut and dry as the ogre and Hayder.

This may just be my 4-5 years of MMO raiding talking though... god im glad i quit.

Modifié par Saphara, 28 février 2011 - 06:57 .

[The Night Haunter]

Obviously you arent a fan of 3.5 DnD OP.

[AustinKain]

Blablabla79 wrote...

Saphara wrote...
...
Heal hasnt been "removed". You just have to be smarter about when to use it, when to activate the aura, when to use the heal pot for maximum effectiveness, ect...

Maximum effectiveness? How about before you die? Uninterruptable healing or potion jugging can not be tactical. If it has a cooldown, use it shortly before you would die, particularly if it is instant healing. If it is healing over time use it earlier. 

Guild Wars is tactical, even the healing, but has fast recharging healing and damaging abilities and spells, because GW also has many interrupts, ways to remove enchantments etc...

LOL Guild Wars is in no way tactical.  Its a mmo its built on what is the best build we can come up with this month.  Only some of the Bosses in some of the areas make people even get certain teams together. Well that and Luxon/Kurzick point farming.  Even then its not really a tactical game at all.

You can get the right skills in GW and spam healing spells all day long, and dont tell me you cant cause i used to play GW.

[Sabariel]

You're wasting your breath, OP. You're just going to get overrun with: "Healing, BAD! Fighting, GOOD! You suck. You're doing it wrong! You don't play the way that I play so you're playing the game wrong, wrong, WRONG!"

[Leonia]

AustinKain wrote...

Blablabla79 wrote...

Saphara wrote...
...
Heal
hasnt been "removed". You just have to be smarter about when to use it,
when to activate the aura, when to use the heal pot for maximum
effectiveness, ect...

Maximum effectiveness? How
about before you die? Uninterruptable healing or potion jugging can not
be tactical. If it has a cooldown, use it shortly before you would die,
particularly if it is instant healing. If it is healing over time use it
earlier. 

Guild Wars is tactical, even the healing, but has fast
recharging healing and damaging abilities and spells, because GW also
has many interrupts, ways to remove enchantments etc...

LOL
Guild Wars is in no way tactical.  Its a mmo its built on what is the
best build we can come up with this month.  Only some of the Bosses in
some of the areas make people even get certain teams together. Well that
and Luxon/Kurzick point farming.  Even then its not really a tactical
game at all.

You can get the right skills in GW and spam healing
spells all day long, and dont tell me you cant cause i used to play
GW.

If I recall, they removed the monk (healing) class from Guild Wars 2 for similar reasons as Bioware has changed healing between DA:O and DA2. Funny that.

Modifié par leonia42, 28 février 2011 - 07:02 .