257 réponses à ce sujet

[Chzrm]

I think it's because they're really trying to balance DA2 such that it doesn't require healers/sucking down potions to play through. I know it's possible to do crazy things like arcane warrior tanks that can solo anything in the game, but the average player didn't think of this in DA:O, and as such everybody was kind of required to either have a dedicated healer, or drink a TON of poultices. And those are just empty calories, man! 

In all seriousness, I think it's better for the game in the long run. When you don't have to worry about players spamming potions or heals, you can balance fights around how well players can control/knock down/kite their enemies. There's no need to have 'guaranteed' damage like enormous aoes simply because they know players can and will quickly heal it up.

[HooblaDGN]

Yes.

No. Not really. Now I'm no pro, but for my DA playthroughs, even when I was pretty careful and micromanaged on normal difficulty settings, there were simply times when I needed to heal spam to get through an encounter. So if they want to make healing feel more like an important decision, I hope that they also reduce the need for spam at points.

I'm sorry if I'm just not as good as all yall who thought that Nightmare was too easy, but I definitely needed healing spam at some points on normal. Was that due to mess ups on my part? Sure. Absolutely. But I like games that let me mess up some.

I have faith that Bioware will put healing in a good place.

[Grunk]

Yes, OP.

[Kamifel]

I was hoping for this. In Da:o, in nightmare, i've done 2 playtrought without healer. Juste buy like 500 elfroot from the elf,, make some poultices, and you're good.

Good they change that, that was too easy/

[AlanC9]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I would not be surprised if there was only one type of health potion to fit the quick healing slot.

Well, the DAO mechanic of different cooldowns for different types of healing was so silly that I modded it out. Hopefully Bio won't bring that back.

[Balek-Vriege]

Healing Aura seems to be highly effective based off the new healing system. It regenerates/heals more health (50%+ Health Regen) as a sustainable aura, than the default Heal spell does in a single pop on one target (which is only 40%+). That could mean anyone within the Spirit Healer's aura could be really hard to kill.

Regardless of how effective healing spells are, I do like the longer cooldowns. I hardly ever used healing pots in DAO on Nightmare, even when playing my old non-moded characters. So making Healing spells more emergency oriented is a good idea me thinks. Luckily almost every talent in DA2 has some form of crowd control linked to it.

[asaiasai]

Chzrm wrote...

I think it's because they're really trying to balance DA2 such that it doesn't require healers/sucking down potions to play through. I know it's possible to do crazy things like arcane warrior tanks that can solo anything in the game, but the average player didn't think of this in DA:O, and as such everybody was kind of required to either have a dedicated healer, or drink a TON of poultices. And those are just empty calories, man! 

In all seriousness, I think it's better for the game in the long run. When you don't have to worry about players spamming potions or heals, you can balance fights around how well players can control/knock down/kite their enemies. There's no need to have 'guaranteed' damage like enormous aoes simply because they know players can and will quickly heal it up.

I just can not see how running around in circles in a fight is supposed to be more fun than say sticky sticky stabby stabby on a target with a dedicated healer making sure to keep the character topped off. It did not seem that the fight mechanics really changed in any fundamantal way, just an attempt to artificially create difficulty by limiting the players choice of tactics. Now i have to run around in circles to mitigate damage, and that is going to be plain ass boring, sure it might be neat the first few times, but after using that tactic for the 7th fight in a row how is that really fundamentally any different over all than healing through the damage with a dedicated healer for the 7th fight in a row? It is not.
 
Is the limit to heals a way to artificially pump up the difficulty by limiting the player's responses, because of poor encounter design? With what i saw in the demo quite possibly. Alot of the fights involved overwhelming numbers, limited character traits, and seemed repetitive. So instead of spamming heals i spammed fireballs and the frost spell, wooooo i am so glad that spamming spells was removed from the game as some here seem to think.

Again the player is just spamming a different spell, so Bioware and some hardcore players have decided that spamming heals is bad BUT spamming fireball is not, what is the logic to this decision again? How does this make the game anymore challanging? Spam is bad, really? Or is only spamming heals bad? I just do not get why no one here has offered any viable explination for why spamming heals is bad, but spamming fireballs is not, mana is mana how the player chooses to use it should be up to the player. The player is still making tradeoffs, less DPS for the ability to heal or less heals for the ability to bring more DPS, why is one tactic preffered over the other?
 
Asai

[Adhin]

Not sure if this has been pointed out before but in general, all the healing (base, spirit healer, and potions) is in general, potentially more powerful then it was in DAO. It's all percent based this time around.

Think about it this way base Heal in DAO was basically 40HP, + .4 per spellpower. So at 100 spellpower you could heal, 80 dmg. It was static, you basically had to spam that thing. Same thing with healing potions. Group heal was 50HP + .5 per spellpower, or 100 hp at 100 SP.

Now look at DA2, base Heal is 40%, warrior with 200 hp? thats 80 hp. Upgrade it to 80% (demo is 60% but thats old, it was upgraded to 80% in retail) makes that 160 hp, near full heal instantly. Ultimately, mage as healer can do a better job of it in DA2 but you do have to think about it more. Be more specific with when you use heals instead of just spam-fest it. And Spirit Healer? that's pretty damn powerful as far as healing is concerned. +50% regen (not sure what that's over) but that'll be based off each persons max-hp. Plus group heals and whatnot, playing a healer or having a mage as a healer will be worth it. It's not a Nerf, so much as a buff and then some new balance around that increase in power.

Try to look past the cooldowns and actually take an indepth look at what they 'do' along with everything else.

[Adhin]

Yes queen there is, if you hold down the left trigger the game wont unpause. If you go into the menu's you can make it so pulling left-trigger pauses it in a toggle on/off instead of requiring you hold it. In either situation the game stays paused till you unpause it (leg go or toggle it off). Basically this means you can give an order to each companion during the pause and then watch it happen once you let go.

-edit-

Oh and there is only 1 kind of Health, Stamina, Mana potion. And they all regenerate 60% instantly too. So using one when your around 30-40% Health will get you the best benefit if you think you'll need it. You know, give you think that far ahead and don't wait till your near death.

Seriously though the games not balanced around you nearly auto-dying in a few seconds and requiring health spam. If you actually think 60 second cooldown is to long and scary you don't even want to know some of the NM changes. And I recommend you play on normal or casual, cause NM sure as hell aint for you.

Modifié par Adhin, 28 février 2011 - 09:10 .

[BeardedNinja]

Queen-Of-Stuff wrote...

... Okay, so this is probably a stupid question, but nonetheless; is there a way to pause the game and issue commands to several characters at once on the console versions like you can on the PC? Because if there is, I haven't found it.

Yes definetly just keep the radial menu held down issue a command switch character issues a command to them switch character issue a command to them release radial menu then all  of your characters will do what you told them to do at the same time :happy:

[Adhin]

Oh yeah and also keep in mind (not sure if you noticed this either Queen) but top-left of the radial menu is a 'move to' command. Lets you target an area and they'll run there after the unpause. If you Tab Left/right Bumper at same time you do a full party select, you can actually move the whole squad that way in a pinch, like if you need everyone to just move IMMEDIATELY in a fight, through a doorway or into a hallway to pinch enemies, that option is now fully available on consoles.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Asai... You... you... make sense. Hehe. That's not supposed to happen.

[LilyasAvalon]

BeardedNinja wrote...

You mean I cant be an infinite healing GOD anymore? I actually have to think more about tactics? Oh the DRAMA! lol

Oh, you drama lhama, you~!

[Orian Tabris]

They should have given Heal a 15 sec cooldown.

[Adhin]

Nah Asai isn't making sense at all, just complaining based off information they made up in there head. You can't really 'spam' much spells at all. Average cooldown is 20 seconds. Granted you can cast more then one in a chain. But everything, in general, got a bigger cooldown.

And as has been stated before the encounters are based off not health spam due to certain fights destroying your HP quickly, but the players ability to just last in most situations. Look at DAO right? Most fights no biggy, even on NM there was little reason to use healing potions in most situations. Then you'd get into a few fights where for whatever reason the damage output of 1-2 monsters was extremely high. LIke opening a door and instantly getting hit by a high end crushing prison.

Or getting overwhelm ganged by a pack of Wolves, one after another like its some kinda tag-team share day. In situations like that you basically had to be able to spam heals (though in the wolf situation, just freezing the lot also works). Bosses often did absurdly high damage compared to normal minions and, due to how armor worked you would actually be taking a huge chunk of damage.

That's another thing to consider with all this, how Armor works is no longer a static amount. It's % based. Take 40 Armor in DAO vs 40% armor in DA2 (should have more like 60% on avg in DA2 but anyways). Look at DAO and compare 50 dmg mob vs 100 dmg mob. That's basically 10 dmg vs 60 dmg, which is a HUGE difference. One is a walk in the park, the others a poultice spam-fest. Now compare the same damage in DA2 40% and you get 30 vs 60. Both are doing direct damage to you, ones twice as much but if your used to taking 30 damage and not needing to heal, 60 damage just means you'll actually have to heal partway through. It's not as 'oh ****' a change as it was in DAO.

[Adhin]

no, they shouldn't have. And if they kept the same base cooldown as everything else, 20 seconds, they would of had to lower the %heal. I prefer it being a higher % and just having a longer cooldown. I want my heals MEANING something instead of being a massive mana drain and my mage having to do nothing else but spam the damn things.

Least with Spirit Healer if your going that route that's your spec, turning on the aura for a group heal and turning it off (or leaving it on) could be a viable healer thing. It's really a 'Reverse Keeper'. You had to turn on that sustained just to use any of the abilities in the tree, and it was worth doing in certain situations but not something you did all the time. Same thing with Spirit Healer this time around, though I could see someone building a Spirit Healer to do just that, non-stop healing.

[TwistedComplex]

Yes

In fact Bioware hates you specifically

How does that make you feel?

[AngryFrozenWater]

Adhin wrote...

no, they shouldn't have. And if they kept the same base cooldown as everything else, 20 seconds, they would of had to lower the %heal. I prefer it being a higher % and just having a longer cooldown. I want my heals MEANING something instead of being a massive mana drain and my mage having to do nothing else but spam the damn things.

Least with Spirit Healer if your going that route that's your spec, turning on the aura for a group heal and turning it off (or leaving it on) could be a viable healer thing. It's really a 'Reverse Keeper'. You had to turn on that sustained just to use any of the abilities in the tree, and it was worth doing in certain situations but not something you did all the time. Same thing with Spirit Healer this time around, though I could see someone building a Spirit Healer to do just that, non-stop healing.

That's a mana drain too. In addition, while using the aura the mage is completely useless for offensive purposes.

[Esbatty]

BIOWARE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT HEALING PEOPLE!

[AngryFrozenWater]

Come to think of it... Maybe the following Guild Wars construct will work. Have two healers which use the aura to automatically keep the party and each other alive. Sounds like one of my first experiments.

[Adhin]

Which is a mana drain? They don't use the constant 'sucks up mana' crap like they had on half the things in DAO for sustained in DA2. So the healing aura is just that, sectioned off a % of your max mana and just gives everyone good regeneration. Also keep in mind it's just that, a sustained. Its got a 5 second cooldown you can turn it on/off pretty much as you want so if YOUR playing the healer, you can turn it off - throw out some spells.

When you see your companions heal getting to that 50% mark you can turn it back on, throw out a group heal..so on so on. Looks like they also have some tactics in to handle party-heal via % for use for that kinda thing. There was one based off party health, at least 2 or 3 having health around whatever, or stamina/mana around whatever %. That kind of thing will be useful for me at least if I ever use Anders (which I will during some play through).

I just think people are ignoring far to much, just for the sake of whining about a cooldown. Basing most of there assumption off what they know, that being DAO. Which I understand, but I just feel like people need to step back, look at the whole picture, see whats been changed and realize the cooldown was a design choice and things are balanced around that. It's not like they kept it all exactly like DAO and then just imposed a giant cooldown to be dicks. And absolute ton of minor stats have changed to be a bit more balanced this time around and as such Heal spells are inline with that.