257 réponses à ce sujet

[maselphie]

Aldandil wrote...

maselphie wrote...

The problem is, why include healers and a Creation skill tree if healing is to be obsolete?

You have no reason whatsover to believe that healing is obsolete

Correct. Responding to people saying that Bioware was trying to make a game that didn't need the heal spell.

[sassperella]

Wulfram wrote...

Adhin wrote...

It's practically a full heal! Spirit Healers same way but group wide. How is that not worth taking? I

It's cooldown makes it effectively only one use per battle, that's the problem.  I can't really comment on spirit healers, but the ogre battle seemed a fair bit tougher when I took Heal compared to when I took Heroic Aura or Winter's Grasp.

yes I found the fight much easier the second time with damage spells rather than the heal spell. I played a healer/controller in  my last DA:O playthrough and loved it, there was always something to do in the fight and it kept me on my toes. A heal every minute is a bit harsh imo especially for those that like playing healers and are left twiddling their thumbs (or staff in this case), but I'll wait and see how it plays out in the full game on harder fights.

[Adhin]

Hah you should try pure creation tree for that fight, its awful. It's actually not that bad really depends how how you play it, the AI tactics isn't really setup very well in the demo (half of it doesn't work at all). Ultimately you have to do a lot more party management to ensure Carver isn't being an idiot and hitting as much as possible and so forth.

But I'd often take heal 1st, or 2nd, and it makes the Ogre fight just fine. Aveline, for instance tanks pretty well - her HP doesn't actually drop that fast. So when it does get low, to 40-50%, popping the heal brings her right back up. I found that I didn't need to actually heal all that often with her tanking, least in the demo. And thats with a 40%. upgrading it to 80% that much more useful as you can wait till shes 20-25% then insta-heal her to 100%, which will take awhile before she gets that low again.

[sassperella]

I think Carver managed to die every time on the Ogre lol, even with points in cunning. I gave up in the end, it was easier with just me and Avaline anyway. I found the demo a lot easier playing other classes with Bethany as a companion, Carver just seemed way too squishy and died fast if you didn't pop potions or take control of him.

[Aldandil]

maselphie wrote...

Aldandil wrote...

maselphie wrote...

The problem is, why include healers and a Creation skill tree if healing is to be obsolete?

You have no reason whatsover to believe that healing is obsolete

Correct. Responding to people saying that Bioware was trying to make a game that didn't need the heal spell.

Oooops, my bad.

[Imarikurumi]

A bit disappointed with the healing nerf.

I loved playing the Healing ****** CC role in the prequel. From the looks of it, im prolly gonna play offensive mage spec with minimal heal skills and have another mage Merill/Anders/Bethany spec a bit into the heal skills to suppliment mine... =(

[AkiKishi]

The ability to spam heal was not really a good thing. But it seems the overall difficulty has been lowered to compensate for slower healing, which is also not a good thing.

[RedWulfi]

Didnt need the heal spell at all in the demo. Just focus on killing the mobs as fast as possible.

[Koiruoho]

Playing as a tank in DA:O was also extremely boring and the melee classes had pretty few active abilities with long cooldowns and your stamina was already taxed with keeping useful sustained abilities up. In contrast mages had tons of CC, heals and direct damage spells. It's pretty funny to claim that they HATE you because you can't just control only your mage character in battles when those who would have liked to have more utility out of melee classes were stuck with having to use the mages for all the heavy lifting.

I'm very pleased that now I can, for example, have my rogue leap out of harm's way and then slap the enemies with a fireball instead of having to mass paralyze them first, have my rogue ungainly make his way out of the blast zone and *then* fry the bad guys.

If your argument isn't that "I want to only control MY character in the battles" or "I only want to take these exact spells for my mage" then I can't really figure out what this 'thumb-twiddling' is about.

[Siven80]

Less spam healing means more tactical use of heals in theory. Also moving character out of harmful area damage (things like the ogres aoe ground smash) means more combat awareness makes battles more tactical.

Also due to the damage resistance stat and healing being % based now it makes Con a worthy stat to increase.

I was also really annoyed by the many different poultices in origins so am glad its now just 1 potion.

All in all, good healing changes imo.

[shertokch]

in my opinion healers were extremely opverpowered in DAO, if you had 2 healing specced mages the game was a cakewalk and if you had no heal at all it was pretty much impossible.
so by nerfing healers they actually balanced the game around it so we are no longer forced to take this spec?

I will have to play through the game to give a final opinion but I think it doesnt sound bad at all.

[RedWulfi]

yay to moving out of aoe damage rather than healing through it.

[Koiruoho]

Spamming heals also makes for a lovely mental image of "oh god I'm dying gakk-- I'm fine again and boy do I feel goo-- oh jesus that's not supposed to be poking out of ther-- CHAAARGE!"

Or in the case of healing through AOE damage, more like "why don't you meatheads go stand over there and get savagely beaten on by those darkspawn while I conjure up a ball of fire to blast the nuts off you all and then we can stitch your bits back together when all this nasty business is dealt with."

Modifié par Koiruoho, 28 février 2011 - 02:06 .

[Beerfish]

Mages 'spam' spells no matter what do they not? Not heals? Fine they still spam fireball or some of the ice spells.

One problem I see with the dynamic of party make up we have seen so far. We have only one sword and board companion and thus only one really good 'tank' option. (Yes you can make anyone a tank but sword and board is almost always the best.) If you really cut back on the healing you better have at least one character in your party who can take some heavy damage.

[SnowHeart1]

sassperella wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Adhin wrote...

It's practically a full heal! Spirit Healers same way but group wide. How is that not worth taking? I

It's cooldown makes it effectively only one use per battle, that's the problem.  I can't really comment on spirit healers, but the ogre battle seemed a fair bit tougher when I took Heal compared to when I took Heroic Aura or Winter's Grasp.

yes I found the fight much easier the second time with damage spells rather than the heal spell. I played a healer/controller in  my last DA:O playthrough and loved it, there was always something to do in the fight and it kept me on my toes. A heal every minute is a bit harsh imo especially for those that like playing healers and are left twiddling their thumbs (or staff in this case), but I'll wait and see how it plays out in the full game on harder fights.

^ This basically sums it up. Taking heal, at least as one of your few spells at low level, was a huge disadvantage. It's a one or two off spell for a combat. While I think that makes it less useful, some people disagree; you cannot disagree that, as one of your first spells, it leaves a mage with less to do aside from auto-attack. (Boring.) Does that make it more "tactical"? Sure, in the sense that if you only have one bullet you'd better make sure it hits. Does it prevent mages from "heal spamming"? Sure, in the sense that putting a 60s timer on a warrior's Mighty Blow will keep it from "attack spamming". (Seriously sensing some anti-mage bias with comments like that.)

Meh. I guess we'll have a better idea once we actually have the game in hand. Regardless of how flawed I see the new healing spell, I'm still going to spec out Anders as a Spirit Healer. I'll be happy to be proven wrong. (But I don't think I, nor the OP, will be.)

Modifié par SnowHeart1, 28 février 2011 - 03:09 .

[LadyBri]

If you need to spam heal and potions to survive then something is wrong. A good healer also spends time and mana casting a variety of protections and enhancements for party defense and ability boosts. One also wants the proper types of damage dealers so a fight doesn't go on forever, draining party resources over time. With a good balance of defense, offense, and enhancements, a party should not be riding the timer on the "heal" spell or the potion cooldown.

[Thiefy]

i had a hard time in DAO learning how to time heals since i was used to games that have spam healing. Once I got a system down though, it was like clockwork and I ended up having a lot of items that I didn't use. Personally, I don't see what is wrong with it, but the DA universe is different than other gaming continuities and we have to adjust to those rules. Anyway I don't think healing aura is as bad as you make it since when I used Wynn in most boss fights, she was more on the healer/support side than offensive caster. I had her using a ton of glyphes with support spells to keep my party super buffed.

Modifié par Thief-of-Hearts, 28 février 2011 - 03:28 .

[Beerfish]

LadyBri wrote...

If you need to spam heal and potions to survive then something is wrong. A good healer also spends time and mana casting a variety of protections and enhancements for party defense and ability boosts. One also wants the proper types of damage dealers so a fight doesn't go on forever, draining party resources over time. With a good balance of defense, offense, and enhancements, a party should not be riding the timer on the "heal" spell or the potion cooldown.

Well the regular game may be different but in the demo there was no balance at all for me.  The damage spells were by far the more effective way to get through a battle.  As I'd look at my spell list the heal spell would be creeping forward so I'd just blast away wtih another 3 or 4 fireballs or winters grasp spells.  When it came time to decide upon what spell schools to take after one play through I came to the decision that taking the healing one was going to be much much less advantageous.

[In Exile]

Beerfish wrote...

I kind of agree with the op in this going by the way the demo played out for me. Why is it more 'tactical' to have a long long cool down on healing and seemingly much shorter ones for offensive spells? It may be my imagination but that is the way it seemed. I'd much rather use spells more for healing and have them restrict healing potions.

To create quasi resource management, I think. It's why nightmare adds mooks that can steal your potions.

[SnowHeart1]

LadyBri wrote...

If you need to spam heal and potions to survive then something is wrong.

In a sense, some of us are actually saying exactly the opposite. We're saying it's EASIER without heal, not with it. What does that say about the utility of the spell?

Edit:  See e.g., Beerfish's last post.

Modifié par SnowHeart1, 28 février 2011 - 03:43 .

[Koiruoho]

Why is it more tactical? Because you can't just have a mage chain healing a warrior while everybody and their mother beats on him/her. No, you'll have to think up a way make at least a portion of the mob take a short breather from kicking your tank's ass. Enter crowd control or at least prioritizing killing off weak enemies so they stop being a nuisance or something to that effect. It's not that I have a problem with the concept of a healing spell, just that if you don't have to be smart about using it and other abilities, fighting becomes a pretty trivial task.

It's good to have a trick like that in your bag but I'll start disliking it if it's the only trick you'll have to use.

Modifié par Koiruoho, 28 février 2011 - 03:50 .

[LadyBri]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

LadyBri wrote...

If you need to spam heal and potions to survive then something is wrong.

In a sense, some of us are actually saying exactly the opposite. We're saying it's EASIER without heal, not with it. What does that say about the utility of the spell?

Edit:  See e.g., Beerfish's last post.

Exactly - my point is that healing and the "heal" spell should not be the only ability/use of a healer class.  A healer mage has so many other abilities/buffs that are even more useful than just heal.  In addition, one should set tactics and abilities to party members so they are not getting shredded during a fight, and a big part of this includes choosing the optimal party for the specific situation and using tactics and sometimes shuffling through characters to make sure everyone is doing what they should be doing.  Again, if one is counting down the seconds to heal/potions then one is definitely missing something.

[SnowHeart1]

LadyBri wrote...
*snip*

But I think you're still missing one of the major points. Let's take as a starting point that the only reference we currently have is the demo. This is a limitation we are all (apparently) laboring under. We haven't seen the full game. But, what we have seen in the demo, where you only have 2 or 5 spells at the low levels, means this spell sees virtually no use. That's not good game design, either, because it's boring. Fewer people are going to invest in it. Heal should have just as much utility as fireball, as mind blast, as heroic aura, etc... and right now, at least judging by the demo, it does not.

Modifié par SnowHeart1, 28 février 2011 - 03:57 .

[Haussier]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

First the shared poultice cooldown

Then the long cool down on poultices

And now you cant even cast a healing spell  and then anything but a healing spell


Whats going on Bioware?

Are you chantry templars in disguise?

Blood magic sustained wasnt bad enough you had to make a healing magic sustained as well

You know people arent going to just be a dedicated healer

You know that people are now just going to have to cast healing aura, cast heal, remove healing aura

You did nothing except excerbate carpel tunnel or force people to keep just one healer in the party at all times

http://dragonage.wik..._(Dragon_Age_II)

Healing Aura
Sustained
Range: 6m
Health regeneration rate: +50% for all party members
Upkeep: 30%
Cooldown: 10s
While this mode is active, the mage can
use spirit healer spells and becomes a locus for restorative energies,
increasing the natural healing of all allies within the aura. The mage
cannot cast any offensive spell for the duration of the effect.
 

is this true? If it is I have to say i was fine with it until I reached the, "The mage cannot cast any offensive spell [b]for the duration of the effect, thing. My eyes bulged a little bit haha.

Those healing spells better be nigh unstoppable in power.

[FieryDove]

SnowHeart1 wrote...

In a sense, some of us are actually saying exactly the opposite. We're saying it's EASIER without heal, not with it. What does that say about the utility of the spell?

Edit:  See e.g., Beerfish's last post.

I did much better in the demo without any healing spell at all. The extra offensive spell was a much better choice. (For me).

I wonder how dao would have turned out if they had stuck to no healing potions, summons or revive spell like early in development?

At any rate I wonder if in the first few patches things will change like in dao. We should take bets.