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[Chignon]

Valeria Cousland wrote...

I can see your point, but Bishop was an ass. Anders is a healer who runs an underground free clinic for refugees. I gotta believe there's better ways to go about the event other than "kill Anders" or "be an ass/evil and side with Anders."

It was only an example and I explicitely stated that it doesn't necessarily have to be Anders.

We'll have to see how the whole rivalry/friendship path thing turns out.

[Some Geth]

Aesieru wrote...

But you know he wanted to... and he probably would have.

---

This reminds me in awakening...

There were two templar dead near him, now the Darkspawn wouldn't ignore a prisoner, so did he really kill those two Templar if he said he didn't?

Man he lies a lot:blink:.

[FASherman]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

FASherman wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Also, regarding the Warden's disappearance. I do think it was involuntary and something to do with Flemeth. Even more so now that we know Hawke goes missing by the end of DA2 as well.

My guess is that in DA3, you become the Something of Orlais, who also goes missing and then in DA4, the fina in the series, you find the three main characters from the first three. The final Boss Battle is an epic battle where all 4 of your DA characters join together to defeat the Flemeth/Abomination and end the blights for ever.

Or not.

If the devs keep to their original promise of the Dragon Age games not being about a singular person, but rather, the entire lore and world, that is probably what is going to happen.

But so far, a few of them are already talking about Hawke in DA3 and Cassandra and... ngh...

So what do we know that could help figure this out?

Two religions clashed to create the first blight. The Tevinter Imperium worshipped the Old Gods. It was at the beckoning of the Old Gods that the magisters attempted to usurp the Maker's throne by entering the Golden City of the Maker, which corrupted it and led to the first Blight. The Tevinter Imperium suffered the brunt of the First Blight and was subsequently toppled in an invasion by southern barbarians led by the prophetess Andraste.

The archdemons are tainted Old Gods, infected and warped, not what they once were. Morrigan's ritual was an attempt to free an Old God from the taint, but to what end?

So the blight is the result of Old Gods vs. Andraste.

Now, lets consider the result...

What Andraste leaves behind is the Chantry, founded in Orlais (hence my belief for that as the next setting). Hand in hand with the Chantry is the Templars, who subjugate the mages, whereas in the Imperium, mages were the ruling class.

So, now we have Old Gods/Mages vs, Andraste/Chantry/Templars

Where does Flemmeth fit in? She seems to have a special relationship with the elves. Elven slaves supported Andraste's uprising against the Tevinter Imperium. The elves joined Andraste to depose the Tevinter magisters, and they were rewarded for their loyalty by being granted land in the Dales upon Andraste's victory.

And think about Flemmeth's initial meeting with Hawke. Doesn't she sound a bit like a prophetess, trying to decide if its destiny or not? What if those nuts in the cave were partly right? What if Andraste is a dragon after all? What if she is Andraste?

Would this not explain why Morrigan was seeking the soul of an Old God, free from the taint?

What if the final chapter of Dragon Age is:

Morrigan/God-baby(if you chose)/Old Gods/Mages vs, Flmmeth/Andraste/Chantry/Templars/Elves

And YOU have to chose how it all ends.

[Bigdoser]

Wait why would my mage warden hire templars to watch over anders? why did bioware do that?

[werewoof]

gecos wrote...

The whole Loghain vs Anders point is completely wrong.
Loghain was a hero of Ferelden who delivered the realm from the hands of Orlesian occupiers by inspiring everyone with the sheer force of his personality. Remember the fierce loyalty veteran knights had for him (Ser Cauthrien comes to mind). He was the hero who became the villain and he was quick to admit his mistakes and commit to the good cause.
Let's see now Anders. He was saved from the gallows by the Warden Commander (and in some cases by the Warden King too) and made a brother by those who did so much for Ferelden before him. He was allowed to redeem himself even in the eyes of the templars by taking part in the defense of the land.  And the first thing that he has to say about the Wardens when asked in Kirkwall is "those bastards". Why? Because of a cat. Unbelievable. And then he decides to kill the same innocents who had him in great esteem for being their healer. So total love for the cat, total discontempt for the lives of the innocents. And no remorse. And betrayal of his companions. If there's nothing different on the rivalry path he deserves to be shriek food.

Bear in mind that he was ripped from his family, imprisoned, and then mistreated by the Templars for quite some time. And now he's possessed. Chances are, that's why he goes batty and blows up the Chantry, not because of his cat.

[The Elder King]

Guys, it was only ONE templar Warden, that decide to join the Warden after the destruction of something. The other templars have been called by this Warden. Only to clear the fact.

[Some Geth]

tiktac wrote...

gecos wrote...

The whole Loghain vs Anders point is completely wrong.
Loghain was a hero of Ferelden who delivered the realm from the hands of Orlesian occupiers by inspiring everyone with the sheer force of his personality. Remember the fierce loyalty veteran knights had for him (Ser Cauthrien comes to mind). He was the hero who became the villain and he was quick to admit his mistakes and commit to the good cause.
Let's see now Anders. He was saved from the gallows by the Warden Commander (and in some cases by the Warden King too) and made a brother by those who did so much for Ferelden before him. He was allowed to redeem himself even in the eyes of the templars by taking part in the defense of the land.  And the first thing that he has to say about the Wardens when asked in Kirkwall is "those bastards". Why? Because of a cat. Unbelievable. And then he decides to kill the same innocents who had him in great esteem for being their healer. So total love for the cat, total discontempt for the lives of the innocents. And no remorse. And betrayal of his companions. If there's nothing different on the rivalry path he deserves to be shriek food.

Bear in mind that he was ripped from his family, imprisoned, and then mistreated by the Templars for quite some time. And now he's possessed. Chances are, that's why he goes batty and blows up the Chantry, not because of his cat.

No it is cuz of the cat.

[Bigdoser]

hhh89 wrote...

Guys, it was only ONE templar Warden, that decide to join the Warden after the destruction of something. The other templars have been called by this Warden. Only to clear the fact.

If my mage warden ever finds that templar warden he will unleash his fury upon him.

[werewoof]

Some Geth wrote...

tiktac wrote...

gecos wrote...

The whole Loghain vs Anders point is completely wrong.
Loghain was a hero of Ferelden who delivered the realm from the hands of Orlesian occupiers by inspiring everyone with the sheer force of his personality. Remember the fierce loyalty veteran knights had for him (Ser Cauthrien comes to mind). He was the hero who became the villain and he was quick to admit his mistakes and commit to the good cause.
Let's see now Anders. He was saved from the gallows by the Warden Commander (and in some cases by the Warden King too) and made a brother by those who did so much for Ferelden before him. He was allowed to redeem himself even in the eyes of the templars by taking part in the defense of the land.  And the first thing that he has to say about the Wardens when asked in Kirkwall is "those bastards". Why? Because of a cat. Unbelievable. And then he decides to kill the same innocents who had him in great esteem for being their healer. So total love for the cat, total discontempt for the lives of the innocents. And no remorse. And betrayal of his companions. If there's nothing different on the rivalry path he deserves to be shriek food.

Bear in mind that he was ripped from his family, imprisoned, and then mistreated by the Templars for quite some time. And now he's possessed. Chances are, that's why he goes batty and blows up the Chantry, not because of his cat.

No it is cuz of the cat.

They didn't let me take my cat to school with me as a child. BRB DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

[The Elder King]

Bigdoser wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Guys, it was only ONE templar Warden, that decide to join the Warden after the destruction of something. The other templars have been called by this Warden. Only to clear the fact.

If my mage warden ever finds that templar warden he will unleash his fury upon him.

He's already dead (the templar warden)

[Trophonius]

It's not just be because of a cat. From the way Anders describes his bitterness towards the Wardens, it seems to imply that some form of emotional abuse was going on. Like belittling him for being too soft or that he should man up. I'm not saying it really happened, just that it was possible.

[Bigdoser]

hhh89 wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Guys, it was only ONE templar Warden, that decide to join the Warden after the destruction of something. The other templars have been called by this Warden. Only to clear the fact.

If my mage warden ever finds that templar warden he will unleash his fury upon him.

He's already dead (the templar warden)

Did anders think the PC warden will be mad at him? or they will summon the templars?

[Some Geth]

tiktac wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

tiktac wrote...

gecos wrote...

The whole Loghain vs Anders point is completely wrong.
Loghain was a hero of Ferelden who delivered the realm from the hands of Orlesian occupiers by inspiring everyone with the sheer force of his personality. Remember the fierce loyalty veteran knights had for him (Ser Cauthrien comes to mind). He was the hero who became the villain and he was quick to admit his mistakes and commit to the good cause.
Let's see now Anders. He was saved from the gallows by the Warden Commander (and in some cases by the Warden King too) and made a brother by those who did so much for Ferelden before him. He was allowed to redeem himself even in the eyes of the templars by taking part in the defense of the land.  And the first thing that he has to say about the Wardens when asked in Kirkwall is "those bastards". Why? Because of a cat. Unbelievable. And then he decides to kill the same innocents who had him in great esteem for being their healer. So total love for the cat, total discontempt for the lives of the innocents. And no remorse. And betrayal of his companions. If there's nothing different on the rivalry path he deserves to be shriek food.

Bear in mind that he was ripped from his family, imprisoned, and then mistreated by the Templars for quite some time. And now he's possessed. Chances are, that's why he goes batty and blows up the Chantry, not because of his cat.

No it is cuz of the cat.

They didn't let me take my cat to school with me as a child. BRB DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

As a man who loves my cat I would do the same thing:innocent:.

[The Elder King]

Bigdoser wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Guys, it was only ONE templar Warden, that decide to join the Warden after the destruction of something. The other templars have been called by this Warden. Only to clear the fact.

If my mage warden ever finds that templar warden he will unleash his fury upon him.

He's already dead (the templar warden)

Did anders think the PC warden will be mad at him? or they will summon the templars?

I don't know. The Warden howewer leaves the Keep before Anders. It seems he has other plan in his mind.

[Aesieru]

Who is this Templar Warden?

[Rinji the Bearded]

I find it hard to believe that Anders completely hates the wardens... apparently, in order to save your sibling from the taint, you have to have Anders in your party and he suggests them becoming a grey warden. If he really, REALLY hated them, it seems like he'd withhold that information.  But, perhaps he has enough feeling for the ailing sibling, too.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 06 mars 2011 - 07:08 .

[The Elder King]

RinjiRenee wrote...

I find it hard to believe that Anders completely hates the wardens... apparently, in order to save your sibling from the taint, you have to have Anders in your party and he suggests them becoming a grey warden. If he really, REALLY hated them, it seems like he'd withhold that information.  But, perhaps he has enough feeling for the ailing sibling, too.

I think that this phrase about the Wardens and the cat is a joke. But we'll know for sure when Nate will meet him.

[cosmicTAXI24]

One question comes to mind after reading all these helpful spoilers: can you still agree on some things with them (ex: if the companion wanted to do something nice, like save innocents or something generic like that) and disagree with other things (ex: Anders, for instance blew up the chantry. I dont like that)? Like, if you were a good character and your companions wanted some things good but other things in a not so good fashion, could you agree with the right things and oppose the wrong things and still have them stand by you?
This has been plauging my mind ever since I learned that all your companions secretly hate you and I would really appreciate it if someone could clear this up.

[Cat Fancy]

RinjiRenee wrote...

I find it hard to believe that Anders completely hates the wardens... apparently, in order to save your sibling from the taint, you have to have Anders in your party and he suggests them becoming a grey warden. If he really, REALLY hated them, it seems like he'd withhold that information.  But, perhaps he has enough feeling for the ailing sibling, too.

OH. This is good news. So we don't need an import, then? This plot point just became a little egregious. I still think the Grey Wardens are awful monster people, though, so off to Templarhood/the Circle with you, siblings. Still, it's good that there are options. The Deep Roads death was seriously weak when I saw it.

[gecos]

hhh89 wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

I find it hard to believe that Anders completely hates the wardens... apparently, in order to save your sibling from the taint, you have to have Anders in your party and he suggests them becoming a grey warden. If he really, REALLY hated them, it seems like he'd withhold that information.  But, perhaps he has enough feeling for the ailing sibling, too.

I think that this phrase about the Wardens and the cat is a joke. But we'll know for sure when Nate will meet him.

  didn't sound like a joke to me and he wasn't under the influence of the Fade spirit either when he said it.

[The Elder King]

cosmicTAXI24 wrote...

One question comes to mind after reading all these helpful spoilers: can you still agree on some things with them (ex: if the companion wanted to do something nice, like save innocents or something generic like that) and disagree with other things (ex: Anders, for instance blew up the chantry. I dont like that)? Like, if you were a good character and your companions wanted some things good but other things in a not so good fashion, could you agree with the right things and oppose the wrong things and still have them stand by you?
This has been plauging my mind ever since I learned that all your companions secretly hate you and I would really appreciate it if someone could clear this up.

They don't hate Hawke. They have their objectives. Like Hawke has his/her own objectives. I like that (though Anders seems too extreme).

[Jaldaen]

Anyone else ever wonder if Flemeth is Fen'Harel? Yes, I know Fen'Harel is referred to as "him," but he was the Lord of Tricksters, who trapped both the good and evil gods, and Flemeth can shape-shift. Seems like a good disguise to me. Of course, it's only a wild guess at this point. Not much to go on.

[Aesieru]

To be fair...

Ser Pounce A-lot was a pretty good cat..

[werewoof]

cosmicTAXI24 wrote...

One question comes to mind after reading all these helpful spoilers: can you still agree on some things with them (ex: if the companion wanted to do something nice, like save innocents or something generic like that) and disagree with other things (ex: Anders, for instance blew up the chantry. I dont like that)? Like, if you were a good character and your companions wanted some things good but other things in a not so good fashion, could you agree with the right things and oppose the wrong things and still have them stand by you?
This has been plauging my mind ever since I learned that all your companions secretly hate you and I would really appreciate it if someone could clear this up.

Huh, it would be really interesting if DA2 included some outcomes that'd take neutrality. For instance, if remaining neutral with Anders rather than all the way into friendship or rivalry meant he doesn't betray you, I'd be all for that. Of course more likely I'll just have to be an ass to him just so he doesn't go apes**t on me.

[The Elder King]

gecos wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

RinjiRenee wrote...

I find it hard to believe that Anders completely hates the wardens... apparently, in order to save your sibling from the taint, you have to have Anders in your party and he suggests them becoming a grey warden. If he really, REALLY hated them, it seems like he'd withhold that information.  But, perhaps he has enough feeling for the ailing sibling, too.

I think that this phrase about the Wardens and the cat is a joke. But we'll know for sure when Nate will meet him.

  didn't sound like a joke to me and he wasn't under the influence of the Fade spirit either when he said it.

To me it doesn't sound too serious. Even if he hates the Wardens, it's not because they force him to hand over the cat. I think it's because they tried to kill him.