6641 réponses à ce sujet

[Oneiropolos]

I think there's a lot of valid points here. If Anders had been able to blow up the chantry... but in the dust and the rubble, also had a spell in place to PROTECT THE LIVES in it... that would have been a MUCH bigger statement of Justice and breaking the stalemate. The "I Can destroy you. I just proved I could destroy you. But I took steps to spare lives despite the fact that you wouldn't have spared MINE."

Then, I think, would I have truly admired Anders and seen his decision as something to be remembered.

[Sticky Controller]

I really hope we can still have a happy ending with Anders despite him blowing up the chantry. Though I'd go with anything he said or did as long as I get a happy ending.

[namedforthemoon]

So David Gaider achieved making us feel...



...Like crap! No happy endings for us, just lots and lots of salty tears. The coffee maker must be fed.

[tankgirly]

Oneiropolos wrote...

I think there's a lot of valid points here. If Anders had been able to blow up the chantry... but in the dust and the rubble, also had a spell in place to PROTECT THE LIVES in it... that would have been a MUCH bigger statement of Justice and breaking the stalemate. The "I Can destroy you. I just proved I could destroy you. But I took steps to spare lives despite the fact that you wouldn't have spared MINE."

Then, I think, would I have truly admired Anders and seen his decision as something to be remembered.

I think this is something worth poundering for, he did asked us to distract the Grand Cleric...for what? Just to instal some field? 

Perhaps....only perhaps (from a almost heartbroken Anders fan), that he really did those.

[Acerbus Wings]

I think, if you sided with the mages, Anders ultimately gets what he wanted. Based on what I saw, if you sided with the mages, Varric mentions that it showed that the Templars could be defied and that Circles all around the globe started rising up after that. I can't see myself agreeing with what Anders did when I do my playthrough but he technically wins, I guess, even if you don't agree with the means.

In that ending, though, you don't become the Viscount of Kirkwell though and instead turn fugitive.

[The_random_evil_one]

I side with Anders. There someone has now finally said they back his play. Why? Because the only way to make something better is to first tear it down and then rebuild it. That and I despise the Chantry.

[Trophonius]

The Big Nothing wrote...

Anders was the vanguard; he was showing that mages will no longer abide Chantry law.
The Chantry should fear the mages that they have created.

Agreed. Mage uprising is imminent because of the iron fisted rule of the Chantry and the oppressive nature of the templars. The leash they have coiled around mages couldn't be any tighter. Think about yourself as a child with no knowledge of what just happened to you. Your powers manifested, but you don't understand why. Suddenly, these  authoritative figures come knocking to your door to collect you as your family watches you being whisked away from them. You're daunted by the whole situation and soon realize that you're shackled in a cold prison; forced to answer to your oppressors.

To put it simply, the Chantry was asking for it. If no one, not even a high enchanter, can stand up for himself against a Knight Commander who's basically demanding a genocide to occur, then there will be no progress for mages.

[parara]

I'm sure this has been asked before but I missed it: there is absolutely no way to make Hawke's mother live? Leaving your sibling with her when you go into the Deep Roads will have no effect on the outcome at all? I read some stuff about the serial killer sidequest, but doing that asap won't affect anything either?

Sorry, I'm really confused and want this to go right in my first playthrough.

[tankgirly]

parara wrote...

I'm sure this has been asked before but I missed it: there is absolutely no way to make Hawke's mother live? Leaving your sibling with her when you go into the Deep Roads will have no effect on the outcome at all? I read some stuff about the serial killer sidequest, but doing that asap won't affect anything either?

Sorry, I'm really confused and want this to go right in my first playthrough.

No. Some of us tried. 

[Marco_Alberts]

parara wrote...

I'm sure this has been asked before but I missed it: there is absolutely no way to make Hawke's mother live? Leaving your sibling with her when you go into the Deep Roads will have no effect on the outcome at all? I read some stuff about the serial killer sidequest, but doing that asap won't affect anything either?

Sorry, I'm really confused and want this to go right in my first playthrough.

I believe Klace confirmed that she will die even if you try to save her ASAP. Don't know if leaving a sibling has any effect as they were taken into the Deep Roads in both of the playthroughs I've read about.

[Wissenschaft]

tankgirly wrote...

Oneiropolos wrote...

I think there's a lot of valid points here. If Anders had been able to blow up the chantry... but in the dust and the rubble, also had a spell in place to PROTECT THE LIVES in it... that would have been a MUCH bigger statement of Justice and breaking the stalemate. The "I Can destroy you. I just proved I could destroy you. But I took steps to spare lives despite the fact that you wouldn't have spared MINE."

Then, I think, would I have truly admired Anders and seen his decision as something to be remembered.

I think this is something worth poundering for, he did asked us to distract the Grand Cleric...for what? Just to instal some field? 

Perhaps....only perhaps (from a almost heartbroken Anders fan), that he really did those.

Hes not Justice anymore. HES VENGENCE. Big difference.

[Bigdoser]

If you think about it anders life has been well pretty crap his farther thought he was a monster when he lit the farm on fire. He lost a lover he also it was because of templars that he lost his place in the grey wardens pretty much so if y ou add everything that happend in his life this is kinda expected.

[griffondor]

Wow, Anders…

Killing all those people… and what about the library? All the books, Grimoire's, ancient and otherwise, now lost forever. *cough*good thing my Warden kept Flemeth's real Grimoire instead of handing it over to Morrigan*cough* Just like in reality when the library at Alexandria was burned, or when the Conquistadors burned all the Mayan books--all that knowledge and history are gone forever. A culture dies or is enslaved and a new one springs up and the same thing happens all over again… the wheel goes round and round. There had to be a better way.

I noticed in the end, Anders said "at least Justice will be free now". But Justice would would not have had too long to wait anyway since Anders was a Gray Warden. What bothers me most is him saying his name would go down in history… ouch. Well that makes it okay then. No.

This seemed to be as much Anders as Justice/Vengeance, but I'm still going to have to play the game through to find out what I'm going to do about him. When I played a mage in Origins, I told the Arl to do with Jowan what he would because the fool kept making one bad mistake after another (and I wanted to help Jowan, was attracted to him, but he was an idiot) and so he is executed. But I don't know that I could have killed Jowan myself, so it will be interesting to see if I will be able to "murder knife" Anders.

I can't wait to play this game. All the spoilers make me want to play the game even more, and now I'm definitely buying the guidebook too.

[vengerturtle]

Trophonius wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

Anders was the vanguard; he was showing that mages will no longer abide Chantry law.
The Chantry should fear the mages that they have created.

Agreed. Mage uprising is imminent because of the iron fisted rule of the Chantry and the oppressive nature of the templars. The leash they have coiled around mages couldn't be any tighter. Think about yourself as a child with no knowledge of what just happened to you. Your powers manifested, but you don't understand why. Suddenly, these  authoritative figures come knocking to your door to collect you as your family watches you being whisked away from them. You're daunted by the whole situation and soon realize that you're shackled in a cold prison; forced to answer to your oppressors.

To put it simply, the Chantry was asking for it. If no one, not even a high enchanter, can stand up for himself against a Knight Commander who's basically demanding a genocide to occur, then there will be no progress for mages.

I think I agree with this. I mean, the Knight Commander wants all mages killed, right? That's how many people? How many men, women, and children? Not to mention that I bet they're going to want to kill any and all mages born after this, too. Anders killed innocent people, there's no way around it. But, if you look at in broader terms, what's a chantry full of people compared to every single mage in the Free Marches? A war was always going to break out, there was no way it wasn't going to. You're basically stuck between a rock and a hard place and have to decide which is morally worse to you. Man that's depressing. I mean engrossing but depressing.

Modifié par missnicolec, 07 mars 2011 - 07:44 .

[Calla S]

Bigdoser wrote...
If you think about it anders life has been well pretty crap his farther thought he was a monster when he lit the farm on fire. He lost a lover he also it was because of templars that he lost his place in the grey wardens pretty much so if y ou add everything that happend in his life this is kinda expected.

Ah, yes, destroying a Chantry full of innocents is totally excused in this case because Anders had a ****ty life. That makes perfect sense.

Modifié par Calla S, 07 mars 2011 - 07:44 .

[slumlord722]

Trophonius wrote...

 The leash they have coiled around mages couldn't be any tighter.

This is not true in the least bit.

Unfortunately, the limitations of being a game always force one into a conflict in a way that you may not have chosen given an alternative.

For example, I can't ever agree with what Anders did. Not if it frees all the mages everywhere (even ignorning the fact that I think that would be a bad thing in the first place).

On the oppositie token, I wouldn't agree with Meredith's purge either. I would most likely defy Meredith and killAnders.

The point is, however, that my defying Meredith would by no means be a "siding with the mages."

Now, if it is possible to both defy her purge but not be forced to take up the misguided cause of the mages, I would be greatly impressed.

Unfortunately one choice in these types of games sends you down an unavoidable spiral, though.

[leggywillow]

namedforthemoon wrote...

So David Gaider achieved making us feel...



...Like crap! No happy endings for us, just lots and lots of salty tears. The coffee maker must be fed.

You can say that again.  I think they can retire from the video game business entirely now that they have enough tears to feed off of for the rest of their lives.

[Bigdoser]

Calla S wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...
If you think about it anders life has been well pretty crap his farther thought he was a monster when he lit the farm on fire. He lost a lover he also it was because of templars that he lost his place in the grey wardens pretty much so if y ou add everything that happend in his life this is kinda expected.

Ah, yes, destroying a Chantry full of innocents is totally excused in this case because Anders had a ****ty life. That makes perfect sense.

I was not condoning his actions I was simply saying that these events led to that point. Oh yeah don't forget templars try and kill innocent mages all time wynne apprentice for example. I am rather going to enjoy dragon age 2 there is no black and white only grey. Honestly do you still think the chantry will lossen restrictions on mages by just talking? I don't think what anders did was a good start for mage freedom but when ever a war for freedom starts for a select group of people it always sparks off by one persons action.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 07 mars 2011 - 07:53 .

[Wissenschaft]

Well like I said, I'm force to side with the mages, I can't support a genicode. So Anders gets what he wants, people fighting for the mages to be free. But just like Loghain had to die for his crimes, sadly it seems I must kill Anders.

If you let Anders go, you just know hes going to go bomb other major chantries to spread the revolution........that I can not let happen.

Modifié par Wissenschaft, 07 mars 2011 - 07:49 .

[Tamyn]

leggywillow wrote...

namedforthemoon wrote...

So David Gaider achieved making us feel...



...Like crap! No happy endings for us, just lots and lots of salty tears. The coffee maker must be fed.

You can say that again.  I think they can retire from the video game business entirely now that they have enough tears to feed off of for the rest of their lives.

They're tear mages? Tears fuel their evil magic to control us to buy their games.

Modifié par Tamyn, 07 mars 2011 - 07:47 .

[Calla S]

Bigdoser wrote...

Calla S wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...
If you think about it anders life has been well pretty crap his farther thought he was a monster when he lit the farm on fire. He lost a lover he also it was because of templars that he lost his place in the grey wardens pretty much so if y ou add everything that happend in his life this is kinda expected.

Ah, yes, destroying a Chantry full of innocents is totally excused in this case because Anders had a ****ty life. That makes perfect sense.

I was not condoning his actions I was simply saying that these events led to that point. Oh yeah don't forget templars try and kill innocent mages all time wynne apprentice for example.

They kill those who pose a threat. All Anders proved by destroying the Chantry was that every mage is a threat in his or her own way, no matter how pure their intentions.

[Marco_Alberts]

Trophonius wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

Anders was the vanguard; he was showing that mages will no longer abide Chantry law.
The Chantry should fear the mages that they have created.

Agreed. Mage uprising is imminent because of the iron fisted rule of the Chantry and the oppressive nature of the templars. The leash they have coiled around mages couldn't be any tighter. Think about yourself as a child with no knowledge of what just happened to you. Your powers manifested, but you don't understand why. Suddenly, these  authoritative figures come knocking to your door to collect you as your family watches you being whisked away from them. You're daunted by the whole situation and soon realize that you're shackled in a cold prison; forced to answer to your oppressors.

To put it simply, the Chantry was asking for it. If no one, not even a high enchanter, can stand up for himself against a Knight Commander who's basically demanding a genocide to occur, then there will be no progress for mages.

Don't think this is the thread to discuss the whole Chantry v. Mages issue (although with the mentioning of spoilers, why not?), but you do have to realize that mages are essentially WMDs in this world. While it can be argued that the Chantry does go a bit too far sometimes, to have no control over these people is both irresponsible and dangerous. Anders really does nothing to help the situation, except just how dangerous a mage can be.

I don't disagree that the Chantry and Templars go too far at times, but a revolution should not be the answer. Reform would be the best solution, as there must be control over mages. Without this control and supervision there could be incidents like what happened with Connor in Origins all over Thedas.

[Bigdoser]

Any lets not make this thread turn into a mage vs templar/chantry debate. This is a spoiler thread.

[slumlord722]

For a slightly more sillier version of how I see what went down:


Chantry: "Each and every mage is a threat because they all have the potential to be corrupted by demons and unleash untold horrors upon the world!"


Anders: "MAGES SHOULD BE FREEEE!" 

*Uses magic gained by collaboration with a demon to unleash untold horrors upon the world*



I mean, people see what's wrong with this, right?

[Calla S]

Hahahahaha. Slumlord, that was quality.