6641 réponses à ce sujet

[Alanosborn1991]

Irkalla wrote...

Fenris getting angry and pinning Lady Hawke against the wall, OMG YES! Thank you Bioware.

Rivalry sex? Lol

[Sonork]

hhh89 wrote...

Sonork wrote...

I wanted to like Anders, I really did. The mages vs chantry conflict was a very grey one, and i didn't know which side to pick. But blowing up a chantry full of innocent people? I'm sorry but that is terrorism and i can't support it. No cause, no matter how righteous, justifies terrorism and killing of innocent people, not even oppressed mages.

Thankfull the game gives the player the option to choose what to do with him.

Yeah and that is the issue for me, it's not a grey choice anymore. When you add terrorism into the plot, there is only a "white" choice and a "black"
choice. It's supposed to be a hard choice, but once you find out what he just did, killing Anders or not will
become a very easy choice, for me anyhow.

I really hope there is some way to
convince him to not blow the chantry up, I would hate to kill a
companion who have helped me for the whole game, but if he ends up doing
it anyway, the choice is made for me.

[syllogi]

dreamextractor wrote...

In a live stream I saw last night, there was a mage that was begging to not be made a tranquil. She said that she'd do anything. She was told that she'd do anything he wanted once she was one, anyway.

Uh. Take that how you will.

Well that's freaking terrible.     I think I'm going to have to side with the mages, even if I don't agree with Anders' method of starting a revolution.  The Chantry cannot continue to enslave mages this way.

And for anyone saying that Anders killed innocents; Templars and Chantry members steal children, lock them in a tower, tell them they are cursed, lobotomize them if they don't pass their tests, steal their babies if they have any, and threaten to murder ALL of them if any of them show any sign of resistance.

Anders understood what he was doing, and was willing to die without a fight, for his actions.  I don't think he made this decision lightly, even if he was heavily influenced by Vengeance.

I just wish the rivalry path made some difference in the outcome.  Poor AwakeningAnders.  He just wanted a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools.  

[Lotion Soronarr]

Trophonius wrote...
Agreed. Mage uprising is imminent because of the iron fisted rule of the Chantry and the oppressive nature of the templars. The leash they have coiled around mages couldn't be any tighter. Think about yourself as a child with no knowledge of what just happened to you. Your powers manifested, but you don't understand why. Suddenly, these  authoritative figures come knocking to your door to collect you as your family watches you being whisked away from them. You're daunted by the whole situation and soon realize that you're shackled in a cold prison; forced to answer to your oppressors.

To put it simply, the Chantry was asking for it. If no one, not even a high enchanter, can stand up for himself against a Knight Commander who's basically demanding a genocide to occur, then there will be no progress for mages.

Pfft. Oveblowing things as usual.

Puhlease...the leash could be a LOT tighter.
Every rule that is in place is there for a reason. And mages don't have it that bad really.
Some mages are jsut selfish, self-obsessed pricks and need to be put in their place.

[The Elder King]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Trophonius wrote...
Agreed. Mage uprising is imminent because of the iron fisted rule of the Chantry and the oppressive nature of the templars. The leash they have coiled around mages couldn't be any tighter. Think about yourself as a child with no knowledge of what just happened to you. Your powers manifested, but you don't understand why. Suddenly, these  authoritative figures come knocking to your door to collect you as your family watches you being whisked away from them. You're daunted by the whole situation and soon realize that you're shackled in a cold prison; forced to answer to your oppressors.

To put it simply, the Chantry was asking for it. If no one, not even a high enchanter, can stand up for himself against a Knight Commander who's basically demanding a genocide to occur, then there will be no progress for mages.

Pfft. Oveblowing things as usual.

Puhlease...the leash could be a LOT tighter.
Every rule that is in place is there for a reason. And mages don't have it that bad really.
Some mages are jsut selfish, self-obsessed pricks and need to be put in their place.

You have the option to do this. But to be clear, in DA2 the fault is only of Anders, not of the Circle.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Alanosborn1991 wrote...

Just saw the vid and lol yea someone needs to make a GODDAMMIT ANDERS sig lol

In the end I think the ends justify the means, and so evil Lady Mage Hawke will love Anders for it! =D

I think Anders is even better then Guy Fawkes in this case

Why evil?  I could see an apostate, who had to struggle to lead a normal life despite all of his/her good intentions, agreeing wth him as well.  No, they don't have to condone the loss of innocent lives.  But like it or not... he has finally brought the issue to a head.

Where is the justice for those mages who are ripped from their parents... forced to be locked up, told that they are cursed and that the only chance for redemption is complete obedience, kept from knowledge, kept from having families of their own?  And why is it okay to force obedience in so-called holy warriors with lyrium, thereby making them slaves as well?  Why is it okay to use blood magic to track rogue mages down?  Why can the wicked politicians have liberties, but even those with the best intentions may not because they were born with magic abilities they did not ask for?

And why has no one said anything?  Fear.  You call Anders a terrorist.  The Chantry has been practicing terrorism for god knows how long.

The Chantry was asking for it by their feigned ignorance and their patronizing ideals.  The blood on their hands is much thicker than Anders'.  Or so I think.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 07 mars 2011 - 01:02 .

[OrbitalWings]

I think what makes this issue so difficult is that both sides have committed some pretty awful things. You can see-saw between the two forever - templars did this, but mages did this, but templars did this, etc.

Both sides have the blood of innocents on their hands, especially after that Anders does.

[Alanosborn1991]

Speaking of Ander's "All I want is a PRETTY GIRL (Lady Hawke), a decent meal and the right to shoot lightning at fools" line, why was he made bi?

Because seriously he says he wants a pretty girl and yet he was made bi

If David Gaider did his character instead of the other dev would he be straight?

Modifié par Alanosborn1991, 07 mars 2011 - 12:52 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Bigdoser wrote...
Honestly do you still think the chantry will lossen restrictions on mages by just talking?

Honestly? Yes.

With time, the culture and society inevitabely change..
Except, no one wants to wait for reforms to come naturally...

[ZaroktheImmortal]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Trophonius wrote...
Agreed. Mage uprising is imminent because of the iron fisted rule of the Chantry and the oppressive nature of the templars. The leash they have coiled around mages couldn't be any tighter. Think about yourself as a child with no knowledge of what just happened to you. Your powers manifested, but you don't understand why. Suddenly, these  authoritative figures come knocking to your door to collect you as your family watches you being whisked away from them. You're daunted by the whole situation and soon realize that you're shackled in a cold prison; forced to answer to your oppressors.

To put it simply, the Chantry was asking for it. If no one, not even a high enchanter, can stand up for himself against a Knight Commander who's basically demanding a genocide to occur, then there will be no progress for mages.

Pfft. Oveblowing things as usual.

Puhlease...the leash could be a LOT tighter.
Every rule that is in place is there for a reason. And mages don't have it that bad really.
Some mages are jsut selfish, self-obsessed pricks and need to be put in their place.

I think if anyone should be put in there place it's the chantry. They're over controlling manipulative and will do anything they can to make sure they're in power. It's the whole thing of what happens when religion gains too much power.

[sole-destiny]

I'm still confused on who to romance first as well, as others have mentioned... I keep going back and forth between Fenris, Anders, and Sebastian. I sort of want to romance Anders first, just to see if it changes anything. I doubt it will change anything besides a few dialogue lines. It would just be even more annoying when he betrays you if you were with him. On the other hand, I'd like to do Sebastian's since no one has played him yet and I know less about him. *shrug*

Anders destroying the Chantry is annoying, but I can't kill him. Just because I can never kill characters in games (edit for clarification: companions that stay with you throughout a game... not just random characters), even if they are only characters in a game (hopefully Sebastian will let Anders just leave and won't demand his death in order to make him stay). It's annoying that he kills all those people, but at the same time, it's just a game. I do tons of "evil" things in games sometimes, like randomly massacring innocent people in Fable games, etc. So what if another character is the one who does it this time? If your character had the choice to do it his/her self, I probably would've done it at some point just to see what happened.

Again, not saying I condone killing innocent people, etc. Just saying that I'm sure a lot of you have played games where you were evil and did tons of crazy things as well. Though I guess that's still slightly different as you choose to do that while Anders always does it regardless. Or something. *just woke up and this probably makes no sense*

Modifié par sole-destiny, 07 mars 2011 - 01:21 .

[Eorion_Moonwing]

Alanosborn1991 wrote...


If David Gaider did his character instead of the other dev would he be straight?

Every other LI (exsept Sebastian) are bi why Anders should not?

[Fisthir]

Alanosborn1991 wrote...

Speaking of Ander's "All I want is a PRETTY GIRL (Lady Hawke), a decent meal and the right to shoot lightning at fools" line, why was he made bi?

Because seriously he says he wants a pretty girl and yet he was made bi

If David Gaider did his character instead of the other dev would he be straight?

Justice also told Velanna he wanted to possess a female body next to see how it goes. I don't know, maybe Justice got curious to see how a beardie is compared to a female.

[TobiTobsen]

So there are just the two options to side with the mages or the templars at the end? No "Screw you guys, i'm going home. You're all crazy" third option?

[werewoof]

Alanosborn1991 wrote...

Speaking of Ander's "All I want is a PRETTY GIRL (Lady Hawke), a decent meal and the right to shoot lightning at fools" line, why was he made bi?

Because seriously he says he wants a pretty girl and yet he was made bi

If David Gaider did his character instead of the other dev would he be straight?

Bisexual guys like women, too, you know. Maybe he's just more into women than he is men.

[Gammalfarmor]

The arishok is a bro.

[Tleining]

TobiTobsen wrote...

So there are just the two options to side with the mages or the templars at the end? No "Screw you guys, i'm going home. You're all crazy" third option?

well, the third option would be to be caught between a rock (mages) and a hard place (Templars). You would have to fight both. Seeing how your home is Kirkwall, a war just started, and you are pretty well known, there is no way for you to avoid the fight.

[Camranauchi]

Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't I read earlier in this thread that when Anders asks you to distract the Grand Cleric so that he can plant his bomb or whatever, You can actually warn her so that she and the other people are not in the Chantry when it blows up? I'm sure I read that in this thread and I hope it is true because it seems like it gives a way out of a pretty hopeless situation.

[LilyasAvalon]

Oh, I think I figured out how old Hawke is now...

[Knight of Dane]

Can i ask about Merrill? I don't want to risk a spoiler lockdown of the forum dedicated to her, but i can't seem to find answer anywhere.

Apparently you go into the fade with her and there's a demon that affects her.

What i want ot know is if anyone knows how this is settled in a good way.
Apparently many say she'll become an abomination and you have to slay her, but how are you supposed to romance her and have a good ending if this is the scenario? Even for players who tried to romance her?

[TobiTobsen]

Tleining wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

So there are just the two options to side with the mages or the templars at the end? No "Screw you guys, i'm going home. You're all crazy" third option?

well, the third option would be to be caught between a rock (mages) and a hard place (Templars). You would have to fight both. Seeing how your home is Kirkwall, a war just started, and you are pretty well known, there is no way for you to avoid the fight.

Ex-Paladin wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

Well from reading all the spoilers you can't be neutral you have to pick a side.

The vid that Klace posted (and which had gotten him banned) showed, while picking who to side with, that there was a middle option saying that you won't pick a side. I am so doing that...then I'll murder knife Anders

After that post I thought there would be a third?

Meh, I don't want to be forced to pick an extreme. I don't like the treatment the mages get, but I also don't like the thought of uncontrolled "weapons" running around.

That will be a tough decision for me.

[The Elder King]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Oh, I think I figured out how old Hawke is now...

What is?

[Alanosborn1991]

Anders is right.

This "safety" installed by the Templars is a cruel lie. People will always be killed, abeit by crazy Templars or crazy Mages. the only way for peace is for everyone to admit their faults and own up to it and make the world better.

Instead they blame the other sides, Call for Anullment, Make deals with demons.

Its better that the Chantry blows up instead of the whole entire Kirkwall or Thedas.

This is just like how 9/11 showed everyone how fragile the world is, and woke everyone up from there blind peace that there was.

The Middle East or Holy Land has had war and will continue to have war for the next thousands of years. Because there can be no peace.

Better to have wars then to have peace be erupted by a nuclear bomb killing everyone but thats the thing with the real world now. Real world wars will use Nuclear bombs and millions will still die.

There is no such thing as peace, its only an illussion

Modifié par Alanosborn1991, 07 mars 2011 - 01:34 .

[Chignon]

Calla S wrote...

slumlord722 wrote...
Using violence like that to force a change is no real change at all, just a switch between the oppressed and the oppressor.

The thing that really gets me most of all is that by doing such a horrible destructive thing, Anders is single-handedly proving the Chantry mantra of "all it takes is one" that they use to oppress mages in the first place.

One mage. One. One blew up an entire cathedral using magic in conjunction with demons.

It's funny - I was ambivalent before - I saw both sides of the argument. The mages don't want to be oppressed, and the Chantry doesn't want rogue mages.

I don't think anything could of convinced me more that all mages need to be kept on a tight leash - cut off from the world and locked away - better than what he did.

And that's the opposite of what he wanted.

This, exactly. Though it's far more eloquent that I could've managed. It's late, and I have a bad case of the dumb when it hits this hour. Anders wanted freedom for the mages and to be recognized as the man who set the workings in motion, but all he did was show the Maker-fearing people of Thedas what mages are capable of, destroying a Chantry full of innocents to prove a point.

Sonork wrote...

No cause, no matter how righteous, justifies terrorism and killing of innocent people, not even oppressed mages.

Sadly, I agree completely with all of you.

[LilyasAvalon]

hhh89 wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Oh, I think I figured out how old Hawke is now...

What is?

After the first timeskip when Hawke is done with mercenaries or whatever, the first time they go home, Gamlen and Leandra are arguing about their state of living and their father's will, when asked about what the will said, Gamlen states that their father died when Hawke was still in short pants. In the same argument, when asked why he didn't take the will with him when he got rid of the estate, he angrily asks Hawke if he really expected him to be sitting around for twenty-five years waiting for Leandra to come back.

This makes Hawke at least 23-24 at the beginning of the game.

...Damn my Lady Hawke is old. T_T