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[The Elder King]

RinjiRenee wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Guys, it seems that for becoming Viscount you have to side with the templars, not the mages.

I did see that, but I can't really blame them for doing that, too.  The Chantry would be furious at the Mage uprising, and it probably would not do well to stay in Kirkwall.  It's just an achievement after all.  Seems like your Hawke disappears out of the picture one way or the other.

I know that it's only an achievment. I was only pointing out what happens.

[Cobra The Mad]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Trophonius wrote...
Agreed. Mage uprising is imminent because of the iron fisted rule of the Chantry and the oppressive nature of the templars. The leash they have coiled around mages couldn't be any tighter. Think about yourself as a child with no knowledge of what just happened to you. Your powers manifested, but you don't understand why. Suddenly, these  authoritative figures come knocking to your door to collect you as your family watches you being whisked away from them. You're daunted by the whole situation and soon realize that you're shackled in a cold prison; forced to answer to your oppressors.

To put it simply, the Chantry was asking for it. If no one, not even a high enchanter, can stand up for himself against a Knight Commander who's basically demanding a genocide to occur, then there will be no progress for mages.

Pfft. Oveblowing things as usual.

Puhlease...the leash could be a LOT tighter.
Every rule that is in place is there for a reason. And mages don't have it that bad really.
Some mages are jsut selfish, self-obsessed pricks and need to be put in their place.

And thats what slavers said about slavery.

Doesn't mean its right. x3

[LadySatsuki]

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. T_T

I don't think I can ever knife Anders (unless maybe Basti demands it in my romance playthrough). Right now I think he's the lesser of two evils, but still did something horribly wrong. Even if I don't agree with him, I don't think I can knife him. I'm too attached to his character. I'll tell him to run every non-romance time.

[brain_damage]

Alright, we already know that Fenris stays with Hawke. Does the active romance stay with Hawke or is it just Fenris?

[Cobra The Mad]

Meta Ray Mek wrote...

Chignon wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

This makes Hawke at least 23-24 at the beginning of the game.

...Damn my Lady Hawke is old. T_T

Are you serious?

How old do you want her to be when she saves Kirkwall? 16?

fwiw, Commander Shepard is about 30.

So no, Hawke is not "old".

And a kickass 30 year old shepard he/she is yo!!

[slumlord722]

Honestly, I don't like the idea of "knifing" Anders in the back any better.

Better that there be a trial, and he undergo hanging or whatever punishment was deemed the norm.




But, to restate this burning question - is anyone aware of a way to oppose BOTH Anders and Meredith?

[Nerevar-as]

I had hoped for staying out of the conflict ala The Witcher (although that meant both sides wanted to kill you), but I´ll probably go with the mages. If I can´t prevent the Chantry blowing up then I´ll prevent the RoA. With some luck I´ll still be able to take out Orsino.

What I don´t get from these spoilers is that Hawke is that important Thedaswide. His actions seem limited to one city, and besides the Qunari with no international repercusions. A Chantry blowing shouldn´t have the impact as destroying Val Royeaux, which is the Vatican equivalent.

[LilyasAvalon]

brain_damage wrote...

Alright, we already know that Fenris stays with Hawke. Does the active romance stay with Hawke or is it just Fenris?

I think it is the active romance. It doesn't make sense for Fenris to stay by non romanced Hawke's side. It'd make more sense for Aveline to do so, being how loyal she seems to Hawke.

[LadySatsuki]

? The video seemed to show so. Oppose Meredith, then condemn Anders.

I do wonder if there's any way to save the Grand Cleric and/or the others in the Chantry. Probably not, if I know Bioware.

[slumlord722]

LadySatsuki wrote...

? The video seemed to show so. Oppose Meredith, then condemn Anders.

I do wonder if there's any way to save the Grand Cleric and/or the others in the Chantry. Probably not, if I know Bioware.

The problem is that by oppoising Meredith, it seems like you're automatically siding with the mages.

I guess what I really meant was that is it possible to both condemn Ander's terrorism and then tell Meredith "no you can't just kill everyone"  without the game going "herp de derp now must free all mages"?

And no, I'm willing to bet everything you can't. She seems like a reasonable character, which is exactly why Bioware will kill her 50 times over.

[salemslot]

Secret Achievements/Trophys for DA II

Stone Cold- Defeated the rock wraith on your expedition into the Deep Roads.
King of the Hill- Defeated the Arishok.
Conqueror- Defeated Meredith, knight-commander of Kirkwall's templars.
Arcane Defender- Sided with the mages five times.
Mage Hunter- Sided with the templars five times.

[SurelyForth]

Except Meredith's not reasonable. It's not reasonable to go and kill all the mages, who have been locked up, because one apostate blew up the Chantry and IS STANDING RIGHT THERE ADMITTING IT. It totally proves Anders' point- instead of dealing with him specifically, she automatically goes into Kill All Mages mode.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 07 mars 2011 - 03:05 .

[slumlord722]

We are talking about the Grand Cleric, the woman in the Chantry Ander's warps into the fade in cold blood, not Meredith.

[SurelyForth]

slumlord722 wrote...

We are talking about the Grand Cleric, the woman in the Chantry Ander's warps into the fade in cold blood, not Meredith.

OK, I see that now. I don't know enough about the Grand Cleric to say either way, although Meredith being in power and allowed so much freedom makes me wonder how innocent the Grand Cleric really was.

[slumlord722]

Well, the reason she was suddenly allowed the freedom to declare the Right of Annulment was because *someone* vaporized her level-headed superior.

[LadySatsuki]

What really kills me is that both side's points are proven. Anders provides more evidence that Mages need to be controlled (at least in the Chantry's eyes), and Meredith proves that the Chantry's rule over mages is ruthless and unconciable.

Oh lesser of two evils indeed . . . . .

[arsonic]

slumlord722 wrote...

LadySatsuki wrote...

? The video seemed to show so. Oppose Meredith, then condemn Anders.

I do wonder if there's any way to save the Grand Cleric and/or the others in the Chantry. Probably not, if I know Bioware.

The problem is that by oppoising Meredith, it seems like you're automatically siding with the mages.

I guess what I really meant was that is it possible to both condemn Ander's terrorism and then tell Meredith "no you can't just kill everyone"  without the game going "herp de derp now must free all mages"?

And no, I'm willing to bet everything you can't. She seems like a reasonable character, which is exactly why Bioware will kill her 50 times over.

Well, from what I saw in the video Orsino doesn't like what Anders did either. He acted alone, without anyone's knowledge, so the Circle is blameless (at least for that). I think he probably isn't for total freedom of mages either, as Anders commented that Orsino lets himself be a pawn of the Chantry. I think Orsino had issue with Meredith escalating harassment against mages. Of course, he apparently turns out to be an blood mage/jerk too, but then so does Meredith. So damned if you do, damned if you don't I suppose. (Not that Hawke would know that at the time) So at the end the choice seems to be "Should all the mages be killed now?" Pick yes for Meredith, no for Orsino.

Modifié par arsonic, 07 mars 2011 - 03:17 .

[Erani]

I'm sorry guys, I'm a bit slow...so Anders will blow up the Chantry no matter what? That is, independent of rivalry/friendship? Or is there a way the Chantry can be blown up by someone else and not Anders? 0_0

[slumlord722]

Nah.

It seems like Anders always blows up the Chantry. The main difference is whether or not you accidentally help him do it.


Wait. Orsino turns out to be a blood mage?

[Erani]

^ I see, thank you....another question, anyone knows if romanced Fenris leaves you if you let Anders live after he blows up the Chantry?

[Gennojo Ryuga]

I was curious, after reading some spoilers for Merrill, if she is your LI does she survive to the end? Is she by your side when it is all over?

[Dinaminjo]

LadySatsuki wrote...

What really kills me is that both side's points are proven. Anders provides more evidence that Mages need to be controlled (at least in the Chantry's eyes), and Meredith proves that the Chantry's rule over mages is ruthless and unconciable.

Oh lesser of two evils indeed . . . . .

QFT!!

[arsonic]

slumlord722 wrote...

Nah.

It seems like Anders always blows up the Chantry. The main difference is whether or not you accidentally help him do it.


Wait. Orsino turns out to be a blood mage?

Yeah, according to Klace you fight both Orsino and Meredith at the end. I believe he said Orsino turned into a Harvester and also that he was somehow involved with the blood mage serial killer that possibly kills Mom Hawke. There were pics of Orsino earlier in the thread as a Harvester. I think the guy with a copy of the guide also said Meredith and Orsino were both boss fights, no matter what. Obviously Hawke would have no clue (other than what Meredith says, but I get the feeling she thinks that about every mage). And of course Meredith turns out to be possessed, or something, I'm not quite sure.

It doesn't seem like there's a "good" choice at the end, unfortunately. You just have to go by what your Hawke knows, but it looks like the same scenario unfolds.

EDIT: @Erani- The guy with the guide said that the only unavoidable choice is between Anders and Sebastian. I can't be sure if Fenris leaves or not (none of the playthroughs have involved Anders living, haha), but I guess if you had full Friendship or Rivalry and the romance, he wouldn't.

Modifié par arsonic, 07 mars 2011 - 03:38 .

[slumlord722]

Holy ****, Orsino is a harvester?!


That's why people, that's why. That's why the Templars jump the gun every time something bad happens.

Because even one of the most trusted mages might be a giant corpse demon.

[InHarmsWay]

Gennojo Ryuga wrote...

I was curious, after reading some spoilers for Merrill, if she is your LI does she survive to the end? Is she by your side when it is all over?

From what I've heard, she survives as a companion or LI.