1208 réponses à ce sujet

[Enshaid]

jamnkick wrote...

As much as it pains me, I doubt all are bi. ):

AUFGESTOCKT

[Ryzaki]

Uh...no no it wouldn't unless you think Alistair and Morrigan were similar because they were straight.

[mesmerizedish]

Ryzaki wrote...

wikipedia love: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

While the term is generally limited to fan-created characters, and its most common usage today occurs within the fan fiction community or in reference to fan fiction, original characters in role-playing games or literary canon are also sometimes criticized as being "Mary Sues" or "canon Sues," if they dominate the spotlight or are too unrealistic or unlikely in other ways. One example of this criticism is Wesley Crusher from Star Trek: The Next Generation.[1][2][3]

 Two words: Commander Shepard. 

Sure, but that refers to player-characters in homebrew RPGs set in an established universe. When my Star Wars RPG characters starts showing Yoda, then she's a Mary Sue. But if in a video game, I get to PLAY as Yoda, it's not. Commander Shepard isn't a Mary Sue because the author of the universe is giving him the traits and powers he has.

[EDIT] And Wesley Crusher is different, because he wasn't the star. Cmdr. Shepard IS.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 01 mars 2011 - 04:44 .

[Auroreia]

Ryzaki wrote...

Uh...no no it wouldn't unless you think Alistair and Morrigan were similar because they were straight.

I'm gonna have to agree here. A person's sexuality is not a sole determinator in their personality.

[Gentle Leviathan]

Okay, 1. waht does aufgestockt mean?
2. how do I get that "they're all bi" banner that Ish has
and 3. Come to the bi side...we have cookies.

[Ryzaki]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Sure, but that refers to player-characters in homebrew RPGs set in an established universe. When my Star Wars RPG characters starts showing Yoda, then she's a Mary Sue. But if in a video game, I get to PLAY as Yoda, it's not. Commander Shepard isn't a Mary Sue because the author of the universe is giving him the traits and powers he has.

Canon Sue.

That is the kind of sue Commander Shepard is. 

And I'm looking at TV Tropes right now and strangely enough *gasps* THERE'S A VIDEO GAME SECTION FOR SUES?!? 

Wow. Look at that. What a twist. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 mars 2011 - 04:47 .

[halokitty]

Arhea wrote...

The Water God wrote...
It has nothing to do with the romances being fan service. It's the individual personalitys thats the problem. The characters are suppoused to be unique and different. It would be boring if Morrigan was all girly girl and nice like Leliana. They're two completely different characters with their own unique tastes, likes, and dislikes.

Huh??? WTF does Leliana being bi have to do with her being girly girly and nice??  Leliana's character was to be girly girly and nice. She also happened to be bi. No correlation whatsoever. A person's sexual preference does not define their personality. And vice versa.

I think that what The Water God is stating is that sexualy identity is, in their opinion, part of the personality, one of the defining characteristics that makes each character unique.  Water God is (I think) saying that that making all characters bisexual is the same as copy-and-pasting Leliana's girly-ness onto Morrigan.  It would diminish the individuality of the characters.

I don't think they are implying that the sexuality has anything to do with whether Leliana is girly or not nor any kind of broad stereotype based on orientation.  

Modifié par halokitty, 01 mars 2011 - 04:48 .

[Arhea]

Auroreia wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Uh...no no it wouldn't unless you think Alistair and Morrigan were similar because they were straight.

I'm gonna have to agree here. A person's sexuality is not a sole determinator in their personality.
'

Yes thank you!! According to some posters all bi girls are goody goody good girls - like Leliana!! LMFAO!!

[mesmerizedish]

Ryzaki wrote...

Canon Sue.

That is the kind of sue Commander Shepard is. 

And I'm looking at TV Tropes right now and strangely enough *gasps* THERE'S A VIDEO GAME SECTION FOR SUES?!? 

Wow. Look at that. What a twist. 

It's different. I edited the post to address that. Cmdr. Shepard isn't a canon Sue. He's the STAR of the entire series.

[megaz635]

Split the bed in the picture, I'll take the girls

and the fan girls can go torture fenris and anders.

[halokitty]

Arhea wrote...

Yes thank you!! According to some posters all bi girls are goody goody good girls - like Leliana!! LMFAO!!

But I  like the goody good girls like Leliana!  :innocent:

[Ryzaki]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Canon Sue.

That is the kind of sue Commander Shepard is. 

And I'm looking at TV Tropes right now and strangely enough *gasps* THERE'S A VIDEO GAME SECTION FOR SUES?!? 

Wow. Look at that. What a twist. 

It's different. I edited the post to address that. Cmdr. Shepard isn't a canon Sue. He's the STAR of the entire series.

Once again it doesn't matter. He's a CANON sue. 

[CheeseEnchilada]

/delurks

I'm so tentative on what to vote here. I tend to think of sexual orientation as not necessarily a character trait, but something that is inherently part of you. It can be flexible, but if you're straight, bi, gay, ect. it does reflect on your whole person, and helps to shape who you are. In that sense, I'm afraid of having four bi LIs--how would all of them being bi reflect on their personalities? Is Bioware going to throw in a bunch of justifications, or are we never going to hear about it? How different are the paths going to be for s/s vs. straight? I think I'm just worried about how it will be done, and if it even can be done.

Of course, the other side of me says to forget 'realism', forget all this over-thinking nonsense and go along with it--there is a chance of them all being bi, so why not say yes? There's a first time for everything, and it would be so interesting to see how it would work out. Plus there seem to be signs pointing to it anyway...

....Okay. I'm voting not all bi, but I still have no idea what I want to actually happen. Or what will actually happen. Man, forget the LIs, seems I'm going to be stuck straddling the fence.

[Arhea]

halokitty wrote...

Arhea wrote...

The Water God wrote...
It has nothing to do with the romances being fan service. It's the individual personalitys thats the problem. The characters are suppoused to be unique and different. It would be boring if Morrigan was all girly girl and nice like Leliana. They're two completely different characters with their own unique tastes, likes, and dislikes.

Huh??? WTF does Leliana being bi have to do with her being girly girly and nice??  Leliana's character was to be girly girly and nice. She also happened to be bi. No correlation whatsoever. A person's sexual preference does not define their personality. And vice versa.

I think that what The Water God is stating is that sexualy identity is, in their opinion, part of the personality, one of the defining characteristics that makes each character unique.  Water God is (I think) saying that that making all characters bisexual is the same as copy-and-pasting Leliana's girly-ness onto Morrigan.  It would diminish the individuality of the characters.

I don't think they are implying that the sexuality has anything to do with whether Leliana is girly or not nor any kind of broad stereotype based on orientation.  

Yes and what I am saying is sexuality has nothing to do with personality.

[Auroreia]

megaz635 wrote...

Split the bed in the picture, I'll take the girls

and the fan girls can go torture fenris and anders.

Ah, what, no! I want Isabela, too!

...I'm not sure about Merrill...

[Arhea]

halokitty wrote...

Arhea wrote...

Yes thank you!! According to some posters all bi girls are goody goody good girls - like Leliana!! LMFAO!!

But I  like the goody good girls like Leliana!  :innocent:

Oh I like them too!! - but all the bi girls aren't like that

Modifié par Arhea, 01 mars 2011 - 04:53 .

[Ryzaki]

The Water God wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Uh...no no it wouldn't unless you think Alistair and Morrigan were similar because they were straight.

If all the LI's were completely good merciful characters would that be any fun? Same thing with having individual sexual orientations.

Except for the fact you know orientation doesn't make you good/polite/badass and the like. It just means your attracted to certain people. 

I won't mind the individual orientations thing when we can have exclusively gay characters. Until then I'm pro them all being bisexual. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 mars 2011 - 04:53 .

[Taleroth]

Ryzaki wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Canon Sue.

That is the kind of sue Commander Shepard is. 

And I'm looking at TV Tropes right now and strangely enough *gasps* THERE'S A VIDEO GAME SECTION FOR SUES?!? 

Wow. Look at that. What a twist. 

It's different. I edited the post to address that. Cmdr. Shepard isn't a canon Sue. He's the STAR of the entire series.

Once again it doesn't matter. He's a CANON sue. 

 You're a canon sue.  Ms. Forsaken is a villain sue.

Fight

[mesmerizedish]

Ryzaki wrote...

Once again it doesn't matter. He's a CANON sue. 

Once again, it doesn't matter. He's a first-person character, and he's the star. Wes was a canon Sue (arguably) because he was a secondary character who had so much attention cast his way.

No one would ever accuse Picard of being a canon Sue when he's able to make Romulans and Vulcans make hot sex with the power of diplomacy, defeat every Borg in the galaxy single-handedly with his unique insights from his time as Locutus, and shout defiantly to the very end that "There are FOUR LIGHTS!" This is because he's the star of the show.

[lilliful]

Maclimes wrote...

Auroreia wrote...

I will use that banner.

Seconded.

Thirded.

[Addai]

Auroreia wrote...

Oh, geez no. To the second part. What I meant was, if you wanted to pursue a character of the same gender, then the fact they're bi/gay would come up. But if you didn't pursue them, it never would, because that's their business, anyway.

And I'm not saying they go around sexing their whole group. In ME2 if you had sex with Jack and didn't wait for the romance scene, it closed the romance sub plot to you. Like if in one gsme you decided to ply Male Hawke who was interested in men, and went after Anders or Fenris, maybe the female LIs close or...something.

"That's their business?"  As in, I have a 10 year relationship with someone but never know they like the dudes?  What kind of relationship is that?

And I'm talking about the characters' identity independent of the PC.  I'd prefer them to have one.

[Taleroth]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

 Wes was a canon Sue (arguably) because he was a secondary character who had so much attention cast his way. 

Gene Roddenberry's middle name is Wesley.  Who are these people arguing against a character he named after himself?

Modifié par Taleroth, 01 mars 2011 - 04:55 .

[Ryzaki]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Once again it doesn't matter. He's a CANON sue. 

Once again, it doesn't matter. He's a first-person character, and he's the star. Wes was a canon Sue (arguably) because he was a secondary character who had so much attention cast his way.

No one would ever accuse Picard of being a canon Sue when he's able to make Romulans and Vulcans make hot sex with the power of diplomacy, defeat every Borg in the galaxy single-handedly with his unique insights from his time as Locutus, and shout defiantly to the very end that "There are FOUR LIGHTS!" This is because he's the star of the show.

Actually love there are people who think he's a sue. Being the star doesn't excuse having the very fabric of the world itself twist itself to conform to you whims. (That said I've never watched Star Trek so I can't be sure of the validity of those claims)

But yes it is possible for the "star" to be a sue if certain laws of the universe (or world) are bent to his/her favor. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 mars 2011 - 04:56 .