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#226
Amioran

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Skyweir wrote...
There is no such thing as an unbiased person.


It exists in the sense that you don't consider the issue only on your "preference" (whatever that is). Everyone filters information personally, so everyone is biased on way or another. However when you are expressing a judgment then you have also to consider this point and force yourself to see the contrary of what you see. You should know your personal "bias" and, knowing the same, also consider it for what it is. If you instead voluntarily consider only that "bias", to the exclusion of all else, then you are what I consider a biased individual. This can be fine for what it concerns an opinion (since an opinion is, inherently, a biased consideration), but it's out of place for a judgement.

Every statement possess a contradiction. When I was young I did this: I considered a subject (whatever) and see what was my impression on it, then I forced myself to find something that would contradict my assertions and what I considered as "true" at first sight, and did so as if I really had that impression instead. In this way in the end you come to the soul of the subject and what could have been overimposed by your bias it's removed.

Skyweir wrote...
And this must hold both ways. Many people claim that the game is great in these threads, yet their opinon is as unfounded as the rest of us.


I don't have nothing wrong with those that for example say "I don't like the look of darkspawns" or things as that. What bothers me are remarks of the type as "FF is needed to have a complex gameplay" that is based on an obvious lack or knowledge and it is stated as a fact masked by a parvence of opinion. Everyone can prefer a thing in respect to the other, but to judge something you should not to base your judgement only on what you like, but see the thing on its objective parameters.

In the case of FF, for example, since it is a context parameter, the complexity of gameplay isn't removed by the lack of it automaticallly, just because the specific parameters are those that control that aspect primarily. If the gameplay is tailored on not having FF then there's no problem, if that gameplay specific parameters are complex. You can have a complex and challenging gameplay without FF as you can have an absolutely "dumbed down" and unchallenging gameplay with FF.

Skyweir wrote...
I agree that knowledge of a subject is crucial to judge it, but I would also argue that a depth of experience in the RPG genre would qualify many people on these forums to critique Dragon Age 2 based on the available information.
As I said, as true "objective" knowledge about what constiute the perfect computer RPG still eludes us, as long as we make clear what kind of measure or standard we use for our judgment, many people here are qualified to make judgments upon this game.


Naturally you can base a judgment on your experience, and you can also be "biased" if you have the common sense of knowing that bias of yourself. If however you only, and voluntarily, focus on that bias to express a judgment and then you don't either consider the other parameters than your judgment cannot be plausible.

It doesn't exist a thing absolutely bad. There are always shades, there are always pros and cons. If you focus only on what you consider the drawbacks and don't minimally care about the positive aspects then your judgment it's clearly, and voluntarily, faulted.

Modifié par Amioran, 01 mars 2011 - 11:48 .


#227
moilami

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Amioran wrote...

Skyweir wrote...

Are you then of the opinon (heh..) that art cannot be judged? That a Van Gogh and the drawings of a three year old are of the same quality, because such comparisson is a matter of opinon?


I'm saying exactly the contrary, in fact, I don't know what you have read (it can naturally be also that I expressed myself badly, given my not "perfect" - to use an euphemism ;-) - control of the english language). I'm saying that to judge things you must have knowledge of what you talk about or you just expel air from the mouth.

You see, it's not me that express judgments to let them pass as opinions. If I say that something "sucks" I know that's not an opinion but a judgment, and a judgment should be based on objective parameters. Since many of those judgments here are done by people that, for what I can see on what they say, know very little on the matter they are insisting on criticizing upon, I consider them as having as much value as someone that neither knows the difference from Caravaggio and Tintoretto and yet insist on talking about what it is supposedly "badly done" in their paintings.

As I said in another thread if you want to be an elitist (as many here consider themselves) then you have to abide to some "rules". A) You must be much more intelligent than the average guy, B) You must be extremely acknowledged about the thing you are nitpicking about, C) You must not be biased one way or another. Failing those "rules" then you just become a fool, or, at worst, pathetic. An example of a good elitist? Wilde or Baudelaire.  An example of a pathetic elitist? You have the luxury of choice.


Who would want to be elitist? Isn't it a curse :)

I myself would be very happy to be fanboy. Would be just great to be enchantment-happy all the time :)

#228
Amioran

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moilami wrote...
Who would want to be elitist? Isn't it a curse :)


Yes it is. However, at the same time, you cannot do without it if it is in your nature. It's a sort of masochism, like it can be depression for an artist. Still, it is what "fuel" who you are.

#229
Squrl

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OK, sorry for the bad grammar, i just have to type this and get it outm, i just reinstalled DA:O a few days ago in order to play it through one more time, because my friend told me DA2 was coming out and I just HAD to refresh myself with the storyline and playstyle. The whole time I am playing DA:O, im thinking, i can't wait to install the expansion(s) as well as DA2.I  rip through them on hard mode, sitting in my office for hours at a time, being immersed in the gameplay, the environments, the everything! At about 40% through DA:O, I just cant take it anymore, I HAVE to see what DA2 holds for me. I exclaim to my girlfriend about how awesome DA2 is going to be and how excited I am and how i want to pre-order it for the cool bonus gear; she smirks and goes back to whatever she was doing.
Then, my friend asks me to play some Starcraft 2 matchups(high plat, on my way to diamond) and i tell him no thanks, im playing DA:O, and I tell him DA2 is coming out and he should play it. So he finds a demo on steam and less than 5 minutes later, he is talking trash about the games terrible voice acting, horrendous combat style, bad animation, etc..

:devil:
I couldn't believe him at all... I thought he had never played dungeons and dragons in his life, or even Baldur's Gate...
I thought he was trolling the donkey out of me...
I had to download steam and download DA2 and install it to see for myself...
The opening scene with the white background and the red dragon had way too much effort put into it.... then the cutscenes... way too animated and where is the castle? Next is some familiar looking characters with bad attitudes...Reusing old names and throwing them around like they still mean anything... King Cailan? Ostagar?
I wanted to like this game, I really did.
As soon as the gameplay started I wanted to punch babies. It felt like those playstation 2 games I hated where your some korean toon fighting endless hordes of monsters on your quest to fight some oversized monster. I played it for a few more minutes until my character leveled up and I almost threw my computer out the window right there... What happened to the beloved character info panel? the spellbook looking thing with the layout and the detail....
I tried again to play it after putting in my talent point, but more monsters came running out of nowhere and Forced me to mash some buttons and click to cast some overpowered aoe spells; needless to say all the mobs died in 3 seconds. I then remembered that i could pause it and think about my strategic opportunity... but there wasnt any monsters left because the battles went by so quickly, and there were so many of them that you would probably want to throw things if you had to pause it to issue individual commands every single turn.
I tried once more as i made it past a few more dialogue scenes that made me hate the game completely, and then i finally alt+tabbed out to find some review sites from DA:O fans to see how they felt. After reading the comments from people, I decided that I need to sign up for an account here on the forums and voice my opinion of this game because It pains me so much to see this garbage heap come out.
I think that EA and Activision make terrible video games, the CEO's aren't gamers, they are businessmen. And from what I have learned in college, business is all one giant scam to get your money. therefore these games are the tactics to get your money. Once you buy it, you can't return it, and EA is trying to make your cd key only valid once so you cannot sell the game to the only place that buys your used garbage, Gamestop.
And just to be fair, I agree that Bioware is trying to attract a new audience and I believe they will do a great job at it. I just think that they should call the game something different and not abuse the DA name.Also I think that charging a monthly fee for video games is the way that these companies are trying to take the industry, and I see the positives as well as the negatives in this, estimating demand and revenues are tough...however, I will not stand by and let everything I have known and loved get bastardized by corporations. These companies have been making horrendous sequels to great games for years, in fact they thrive on it.

I want to see solid games for small markets of players, stop making junk.
Needless to say, I won't be pre-ordering DA2, and I will probably not ever pay money for an EA game until they acknowledge intelligent gamers who don't want garbage force-fed to them in the form of sequels that abuse brand loyalty.

+1 SuckerPunch skill for EA, hope you make your millions bro, you just lost a customer for life.

#230
Anzer

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Squrl wrote...

I want to see solid games for small markets of players, stop making junk.

Ah yes, "profits". We have dismissed these claims.

#231
DocSun

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You know, I can't believe this is still being argued. You don't like the changes, leave and don't support it with your money. That's how you can show your vote, don't buy it. If they loose enough people then maybe they will change things again for what you consider better.

Please stop talking about things that have been talked to death. It's gold, it's not getting changed now. Vote with your dollar.

#232
AkiKishi

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Zalekanzer wrote...

Squrl wrote...

I want to see solid games for small markets of players, stop making junk.

Ah yes, "profits". We have dismissed these claims.


Dragon Age sold very well, Of course we don't know how much it cost to make, or the profit margin. Which is more important than selling millions of copies.

#233
KLUME777

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Squrl wrote...

OK, sorry for the bad grammar, i just have to type this and get it outm, i just reinstalled DA:O a few days ago in order to play it through one more time, because my friend told me DA2 was coming out and I just HAD to refresh myself with the storyline and playstyle. The whole time I am playing DA:O, im thinking, i can't wait to install the expansion(s) as well as DA2.I  rip through them on hard mode, sitting in my office for hours at a time, being immersed in the gameplay, the environments, the everything! At about 40% through DA:O, I just cant take it anymore, I HAVE to see what DA2 holds for me. I exclaim to my girlfriend about how awesome DA2 is going to be and how excited I am and how i want to pre-order it for the cool bonus gear; she smirks and goes back to whatever she was doing.
Then, my friend asks me to play some Starcraft 2 matchups(high plat, on my way to diamond) and i tell him no thanks, im playing DA:O, and I tell him DA2 is coming out and he should play it. So he finds a demo on steam and less than 5 minutes later, he is talking trash about the games terrible voice acting, horrendous combat style, bad animation, etc..

:devil:
I couldn't believe him at all... I thought he had never played dungeons and dragons in his life, or even Baldur's Gate...
I thought he was trolling the donkey out of me...
I had to download steam and download DA2 and install it to see for myself...
The opening scene with the white background and the red dragon had way too much effort put into it.... then the cutscenes... way too animated and where is the castle? Next is some familiar looking characters with bad attitudes...Reusing old names and throwing them around like they still mean anything... King Cailan? Ostagar?
I wanted to like this game, I really did.
As soon as the gameplay started I wanted to punch babies. It felt like those playstation 2 games I hated where your some korean toon fighting endless hordes of monsters on your quest to fight some oversized monster. I played it for a few more minutes until my character leveled up and I almost threw my computer out the window right there... What happened to the beloved character info panel? the spellbook looking thing with the layout and the detail....
I tried again to play it after putting in my talent point, but more monsters came running out of nowhere and Forced me to mash some buttons and click to cast some overpowered aoe spells; needless to say all the mobs died in 3 seconds. I then remembered that i could pause it and think about my strategic opportunity... but there wasnt any monsters left because the battles went by so quickly, and there were so many of them that you would probably want to throw things if you had to pause it to issue individual commands every single turn.
I tried once more as i made it past a few more dialogue scenes that made me hate the game completely, and then i finally alt+tabbed out to find some review sites from DA:O fans to see how they felt. After reading the comments from people, I decided that I need to sign up for an account here on the forums and voice my opinion of this game because It pains me so much to see this garbage heap come out.
I think that EA and Activision make terrible video games, the CEO's aren't gamers, they are businessmen. And from what I have learned in college, business is all one giant scam to get your money. therefore these games are the tactics to get your money. Once you buy it, you can't return it, and EA is trying to make your cd key only valid once so you cannot sell the game to the only place that buys your used garbage, Gamestop.
And just to be fair, I agree that Bioware is trying to attract a new audience and I believe they will do a great job at it. I just think that they should call the game something different and not abuse the DA name.Also I think that charging a monthly fee for video games is the way that these companies are trying to take the industry, and I see the positives as well as the negatives in this, estimating demand and revenues are tough...however, I will not stand by and let everything I have known and loved get bastardized by corporations. These companies have been making horrendous sequels to great games for years, in fact they thrive on it.

I want to see solid games for small markets of players, stop making junk.
Needless to say, I won't be pre-ordering DA2, and I will probably not ever pay money for an EA game until they acknowledge intelligent gamers who don't want garbage force-fed to them in the form of sequels that abuse brand loyalty.

+1 SuckerPunch skill for EA, hope you make your millions bro, you just lost a customer for life.






I agreed with most of your post, except the part about EA been evil. It was Bioware themselves that decided to change things.

#234
Byth

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Squrl wrote...
snip


I don't think anyone's gonna wanna read that post with all the bunched up text.

Anyway, I'm wondering how much of the demo because half of your post is complaints against EA. Also just 'cause you dislike something doesn't make it "junk", I actually liked the demo and most of the changes.

#235
Ramza_1

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Jenova65 wrote...

Wait. What?
One completely fantasy orientated game containing magic/dragons/elves/demons and whatnot is completely believable? But another one containing the exact same thing isn't?
It is a fantasy game it is all pretend, we were supposed to leave our cynicism at the door - disbelief already suspended and all that.....................


No.  This is the most short sighted argument I've seen perpetrated on these boards (and elsewhere).  If you leave your disbelief at the door, then the world has already failed at immersion.  Disbelief is not an all-or-nothing response, just like good and evil are not black and white.  Its a continuum.  The world is more interesting if it can stand up to the scrutiny of your disbelief.

There are varying levels of "fantasy" in a fantasy setting that depend on how many of the rules for that setting are borrowed from the real world.  If you borrow more of those rules, like gravity, it becomes for "realistic".  Similarly, realism can be evoked by creating rules specifically for your fantasy setting that have a similar level of depth and explanation behind them as do real world rules, such as an intricate magic system. 

  What is the difference between not understanding magic or particle physics?  You don't "know" the truth behind either (unless you are a career physics researcher), so what makes one more real than the other?  Whether something is believable or not depends on the world you are in. 

Dragon age could be said to be a believable world, with a ruleset for social interactions, culture, magic, religion, etc, with layers of depth behind each of these that, while not comparable to the real world (was designed in 5 years as opposed to 7 billion), is an excellent mirror world.  Perhaps thedas does exist in an alternate reality, its believable.

As long as the rules are consistant and seem robust, and importantly, characters react to dragon age specific rules, like magic, as they do to real world rules, it leans more toward the believable side of the continuum.  People feel DAO is more realistic because more real world rules appear to apply than in most games, like the speed at which a human male can swing a broad sword.  This helps them suspend their disbelief.  If you take that away by making 2 handed swords appear to weigh nothing in comparison with super fast combat, the continuum swings ever so slightly back towards disbelief.   Without something to make up for that, the game seems slightly less real. 

Hopefully dragon age 2 will feel more real in terms of the character and the story, or perhaps the tension from the new fast combat will make up for some of the realism lost.  Anyway, my point is that you cannot simply say "its fantasy so anything goes".  If I had a talking unicorn steed I could summon by doing a small dance in DA2 that proved to be a major character, there better be a darned good lore explanation as to why or it would definately feel ludicrously unrealistic; too many dragon age specific and real world rules would be broken too quickly.  Is it dragon age fantasy, or some different kind of fantasy?  Players who crave immersion will pick up on inconsistency.

#236
WidowMaker9394

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Squrl wrote...
The opening scene with the white background and the red dragon had way too much effort put into it.... then the cutscenes... way too animated and where is the castle? Next is some familiar looking characters with bad attitudes...Reusing old names and throwing them around like they still mean anything... King Cailan? Ostagar?


wat...?

Too much effort? Too animated? What castle? Completely new characters are familiar and they had bad attitudes? Ostagar has just been lost and Cailans corpse is still fresh but somehow their names are "old" and meaningless?

Are you a wizard?

#237
Siven80

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Squrl wrote...

snip



So you didnt play ot past the exaggerated part...mmkay. :o

#238
GunClubGirl

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If the demo is a good example of the gameplay and other aspects of the new game I definitely won't enjoy it as much as Origins. I will still enjoy it, but not nearly as much.

#239
AkiKishi

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GunClubGirl wrote...

If the demo is a good example of the gameplay and other aspects of the new game I definitely won't enjoy it as much as Origins. I will still enjoy it, but not nearly as much.


You never know, some games have a bad first impression but grow on you. I may enjoy it as much, but it will be in a very different way to how I enjoyed Origins.

#240
Aidunno

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BobSmith101 wrote...

You never know, some games have a bad first impression but grow on you. I may enjoy it as much, but it will be in a very different way to how I enjoyed Origins.


I agree, my first impression of the demo almost made me cancel my preorder. It's only when I looked at it closer, along with other material, ignoring the initial visual impression that I realized that the mechanics are still there. After several runs through the demo I like it. Quicker yes, "artsy fartsy"... yes but a lot is still the same and I'll have simply have to adjust to what isn't.

Modifié par Aidunno, 01 mars 2011 - 01:26 .


#241
Yrkoon

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dmsc123 wrote...

damn right its a joke, written for teenagers, fight, fight fight...boobs, come on folks flying with long swords... joke, look at da:o watch ogrin with a long sword, those things took work to use and you didn't whirlwind and cut ten enemy in half, its an arcade game designed for teens with ADD. sorry folks but the older crowd are looking for something with a little thought. by the way I didn't realize they had plastic surgery in that time period, does Hugh Hefner know his girls are out. bio ware should change the name to flying hack and slash and I'll wait for the real DA2

The Older Crowd, eh? 

Well first  off, don't speak for us, unless you can learn to be a little less obvious in your pretentions.  I'd say  much of the older crowd isn't quite as concerned (as you seem to be)  about the fine details of the graphics in this game.  We're far more more  looking forward to seeing what the game has to offer in terms of   everything else...  like the story, banter, dialogue,  companion depth and role playing aspects.  Personally, I'm totally fine with cartoonish, ninja-like combat,  IF the game also has a good story, deep NPCs, and plot choices I can really sink my dentures into.Posted Image

Second, much of the older crowd  can put things in their proper perspective.  That is to say,   we know  the difference between a demo and the full product, and as such, we're   not quite ready to jump to conclusions  about the game as a whole (as you have apparently) from just playing  the friggin  demo.

And lastly, are you trying to be Ironic by bringing up Hugh Hefner?   He does indeed like his women plastically enhanced..... and he's like 85 years old.  What's that say about your argument?  lol

Modifié par Yrkoon, 01 mars 2011 - 02:02 .


#242
moilami

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Yrkoon wrote...

dmsc123 wrote...

damn right its a joke, written for teenagers, fight, fight fight...boobs, come on folks flying with long swords... joke, look at da:o watch ogrin with a long sword, those things took work to use and you didn't whirlwind and cut ten enemy in half, its an arcade game designed for teens with ADD. sorry folks but the older crowd are looking for something with a little thought. by the way I didn't realize they had plastic surgery in that time period, does Hugh Hefner know his girls are out. bio ware should change the name to flying hack and slash and I'll wait for the real DA2

The Older Crowd, eh? 

Well first  off, don't speak for us, unless you can learn to be a little less obvious in your pretentions.  I'd say  much of the older crowd isn't quite as concerned (as you seem to be)  about the fine details of the graphics in this game.  We're far more more  looking forward to seeing what the game has to offer in terms of   everything else...  like the story, banter, dialogue,  companion depth and role playing aspects.  Personally, I'm totally fine with cartoonish, ninja-like combat,  IF the game also has a good story, deep NPCs, and plot choices I can really sink my dentures into.Posted Image

Second, much of the older crowd  can put things in their proper perspective.  That is to say,   we know  the difference between a demo and the full product, and as such, we're   not quite ready to jump to conclusions  about the game as a whole (as you have apparently) from just playing  the friggin  demo.

And lastly, are you trying to be Ironic by bringing up Hugh Hefner?   He does indeed like his women plastically enhanced..... and he's like 85 years old.  What's that say about your argument?  lol


Would be appreciated if you either would not begin to talk "we" when you talk what "older folk" are looking for.

#243
Skyweir

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Yrkoon wrote...

dmsc123 wrote...

damn right its a joke, written for teenagers, fight, fight fight...boobs, come on folks flying with long swords... joke, look at da:o watch ogrin with a long sword, those things took work to use and you didn't whirlwind and cut ten enemy in half, its an arcade game designed for teens with ADD. sorry folks but the older crowd are looking for something with a little thought. by the way I didn't realize they had plastic surgery in that time period, does Hugh Hefner know his girls are out. bio ware should change the name to flying hack and slash and I'll wait for the real DA2

The Older Crowd, eh? 

Well first  off, don't speak for us, unless you can learn to be a little less obvious in your pretentions.  I'd say  much of the older crowd isn't quite as concerned (as you seem to be)  about the fine details of the graphics in this game.  We're far more more  looking forward to seeing what the game has to offer in terms of   everything else...  like the story, banter, dialogue,  companion depth and role playing aspects.  Personally, I'm totally fine with cartoonish, ninja-like combat,  IF the game also has a good story, deep NPCs, and plot choices I can really sink my dentures into.Posted Image

Second, much of the older crowd  can put things in their proper perspective.  That is to say,   we know  the difference between a demo and the full product, and as such, we're   not quite ready to jump to conclusions  about the game as a whole (as you have apparently) from just playing  the friggin  demo.

And lastly, are you trying to be Ironic by bringing up Hugh Hefner?   He does indeed like his women plastically enhanced..... and he's like 85 years old.  What's that say about your argument?  lol



Yet, you seem to jump easily to the conclusion that there will be  "a good story, deep NPCs, and plot choices I can really sink my dentures into."
This belief is not even based on the demo, just hope and correlation from previous Bioware releases. You are making judgments on the game as a whole without even basing them on the demo.

And I reiterate that any opinon based on the demo is at least based in experience, while most of the other opinons here seems to be conjured from the hopes and dreams of their posters. Nothing wrong with that, but much less weigthy than opinons based on acctual experience.

#244
Yrkoon

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Skyweir wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

dmsc123 wrote...

damn right its a joke, written for teenagers, fight, fight fight...boobs, come on folks flying with long swords... joke, look at da:o watch ogrin with a long sword, those things took work to use and you didn't whirlwind and cut ten enemy in half, its an arcade game designed for teens with ADD. sorry folks but the older crowd are looking for something with a little thought. by the way I didn't realize they had plastic surgery in that time period, does Hugh Hefner know his girls are out. bio ware should change the name to flying hack and slash and I'll wait for the real DA2

The Older Crowd, eh? 

Well first  off, don't speak for us, unless you can learn to be a little less obvious in your pretentions.  I'd say  much of the older crowd isn't quite as concerned (as you seem to be)  about the fine details of the graphics in this game.  We're far more more  looking forward to seeing what the game has to offer in terms of   everything else...  like the story, banter, dialogue,  companion depth and role playing aspects.  Personally, I'm totally fine with cartoonish, ninja-like combat,  IF the game also has a good story, deep NPCs, and plot choices I can really sink my dentures into.Posted Image

Second, much of the older crowd  can put things in their proper perspective.  That is to say,   we know  the difference between a demo and the full product, and as such, we're   not quite ready to jump to conclusions  about the game as a whole (as you have apparently) from just playing  the friggin  demo.

And lastly, are you trying to be Ironic by bringing up Hugh Hefner?   He does indeed like his women plastically enhanced..... and he's like 85 years old.  What's that say about your argument?  lol



Yet, you seem to jump easily to the conclusion that there will be  "a good story, deep NPCs, and plot choices I can really sink my dentures into."

I am?    I recall saying that  I'm looking forward to these things.    That's not conclusion jumping,  is it?  Especially since  I put the word IF in call caps in that post.

Skyweir wrote...


This belief is not even based on the demo,

Obviously not.  It's based on a hell of a lot more.  I've been researching every minute of released data about this game for about 6 months now.    I would be a complete  fool to draw all  my conclusions  (especially about story, and   companions) from just a 20 minute demo specifically designed to showcase combat.  Wouldn't you say?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 01 mars 2011 - 02:58 .


#245
Elsariel

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Yrkoon wrote...

dmsc123 wrote...

damn right its a joke, written for teenagers, fight, fight fight...boobs, come on folks flying with long swords... joke, look at da:o watch ogrin with a long sword, those things took work to use and you didn't whirlwind and cut ten enemy in half, its an arcade game designed for teens with ADD. sorry folks but the older crowd are looking for something with a little thought. by the way I didn't realize they had plastic surgery in that time period, does Hugh Hefner know his girls are out. bio ware should change the name to flying hack and slash and I'll wait for the real DA2

The Older Crowd, eh? 

Well first  off, don't speak for us, unless you can learn to be a little less obvious in your pretentions.  I'd say  much of the older crowd isn't quite as concerned (as you seem to be)  about the fine details of the graphics in this game.  We're far more more  looking forward to seeing what the game has to offer in terms of   everything else...  like the story, banter, dialogue,  companion depth and role playing aspects.  Personally, I'm totally fine with cartoonish, ninja-like combat,  IF the game also has a good story, deep NPCs, and plot choices I can really sink my dentures into.Posted Image

Second, much of the older crowd  can put things in their proper perspective.  That is to say,   we know  the difference between a demo and the full product, and as such, we're   not quite ready to jump to conclusions  about the game as a whole (as you have apparently) from just playing  the friggin  demo.

And lastly, are you trying to be Ironic by bringing up Hugh Hefner?   He does indeed like his women plastically enhanced..... and he's like 85 years old.  What's that say about your argument?  lol


Win.  You speak more to me (as a member of "the older crowd", myself) than that other guy.  I honestly don't know what age has to do with it.  Just because I'm older (31) I'm suddenly going whine and complain about fancy combat and "realism"?  No.  I'm not.  I'm perfectly fine with it. 

This is a personal preference thing.  Not an age thing.

#246
shelledfade

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one problem in dragon age for me is that there was too much talking and not enough action.

It could get tedious at times.

#247
abnocte

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Ramza_1 wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

Wait. What?
One completely fantasy orientated game containing magic/dragons/elves/demons and whatnot is completely believable? But another one containing the exact same thing isn't?
It is a fantasy game it is all pretend, we were supposed to leave our cynicism at the door - disbelief already suspended and all that.....................


No.  This is the most short sighted argument I've seen perpetrated on these boards (and elsewhere).  If you leave your disbelief at the door, then the world has already failed at immersion.  Disbelief is not an all-or-nothing response, just like good and evil are not black and white.  Its a continuum.  The world is more interesting if it can stand up to the scrutiny of your disbelief.

There are varying levels of "fantasy" in a fantasy setting that depend on how many of the rules for that setting are borrowed from the real world.  If you borrow more of those rules, like gravity, it becomes for "realistic".  Similarly, realism can be evoked by creating rules specifically for your fantasy setting that have a similar level of depth and explanation behind them as do real world rules, such as an intricate magic system. 

  What is the difference between not understanding magic or particle physics?  You don't "know" the truth behind either (unless you are a career physics researcher), so what makes one more real than the other?  Whether something is believable or not depends on the world you are in. 

Dragon age could be said to be a believable world, with a ruleset for social interactions, culture, magic, religion, etc, with layers of depth behind each of these that, while not comparable to the real world (was designed in 5 years as opposed to 7 billion), is an excellent mirror world.  Perhaps thedas does exist in an alternate reality, its believable.

As long as the rules are consistant and seem robust, and importantly, characters react to dragon age specific rules, like magic, as they do to real world rules, it leans more toward the believable side of the continuum.  People feel DAO is more realistic because more real world rules appear to apply than in most games, like the speed at which a human male can swing a broad sword.  This helps them suspend their disbelief.  If you take that away by making 2 handed swords appear to weigh nothing in comparison with super fast combat, the continuum swings ever so slightly back towards disbelief.   Without something to make up for that, the game seems slightly less real. 

Hopefully dragon age 2 will feel more real in terms of the character and the story, or perhaps the tension from the new fast combat will make up for some of the realism lost.  Anyway, my point is that you cannot simply say "its fantasy so anything goes".  If I had a talking unicorn steed I could summon by doing a small dance in DA2 that proved to be a major character, there better be a darned good lore explanation as to why or it would definately feel ludicrously unrealistic; too many dragon age specific and real world rules would be broken too quickly.  Is it dragon age fantasy, or some different kind of fantasy?  Players who crave immersion will pick up on inconsistency.


QFT.

Great post sir!

DA2 combat animations are so far off from DAO that I was totally in shock when I first played the demo, my suspension fo disbelief was totally broken. I mean, when I tried the warrior class I saw how to close in melee range Hawke litellary just "slided" on the terrain....how the hell he can do that? It wasn't an special attack just the default animation.... I know that in DAO closing in melee range was ridiculous, but was more beliable than DA2 floating on terrain....

#248
Black-Xero

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shelledfade wrote...

one problem in dragon age for me is that there was too much talking and not enough action.

It could get tedious at times.

It is an RPG.The main part of the game is the plot and characters.

#249
dmsc123

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I don't know... for some reason I was thinking Bioware would want to put their best foot forward in their Demo, oh, maybe they have, I guess they will have lines of teens waiting at the doors and it was probably a good economical move for them... just call the damn thing something else, by the way what are the creatures were fighting, did the dark spawn all stop by Calvin Kline the armorer on their way up from the deep roads? Shiny matching armor... pretty. Sorry I was looking for something a little more cerebral, something I could get a little more emotionality attached to, a little more of a role playing game where I am the character not prompting the character, For some reason I felt like I was with an awkward teenager and I was prompting his every word, oh wait a minute... teenager. In this little snippet the only people I became attached to in any way are the Dwarf and his inquisitor in the opening, I couldn't care less about the rest of the characters.,Humm, so much for role playing lets get with the pretty hack and slash.

#250
Thiefy

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ugh it was to my understanding that the demo was more or less an introduction to the new gameplay, not the opening of the game itself. I'm sure it's close to it, but are probably a few parts we are missing.