300 réponses à ce sujet

[Yrkoon]

I just bought a car today. Haven't driven it yet, but I have tested out the horn, which IS a part of the car. And it sounds like crap. It's  a very gay "meep meep" sound. Therefore, I know for a fact that the car must totally suck.   lol

Modifié par Yrkoon, 02 mars 2011 - 03:24 .

[Manic Sheep]

You are comparing the full game to a demo meant to showcase combat. They are not going to make you spend 2 hours downloading a demo then have it mostly conversations without letting you experiment with the combat.
Not only that but DA2 is a sequel. Many of the players will already be familiar with the basic background lore so they don’t need to it feed to you in one big hard to digest lump right at the start. For those that aren’t and want to know there is a wiki and it will likely be in the codex as well. DA:O needed all that conversation in the intro because they needed to establish the setting and where you fit in. In DA2 they will probably bring in new lore and expand on the old stuff later.

You also skipped a bit in the middle which is probably where it would have slowed down and the exploring, conversation and lore would have picked up.

And why do people keep complaining about it being linear? Its a demo and DA:O was also very linear.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 02 mars 2011 - 03:37 .

[Cohesion]

 Okey dokey. I've just about had it with all the naysaying and the negativity surrounding this bloody demo. BioWare let us have a sneak peak - a demonstration (which is, lest we forget, the word 'demo' is derived from) - of a scenario which serves as a prologue to the main body of storyline which kicks in when Hawke and co. arrive in the Free Marches; a prologue which is, in essence, a glorified tutorial. I don't know about anyone else, but a tutorial in which the main characters have expansive and meaningful conversations about life, liberty and fruit of the loom would kind of defeat the purpose of explaining (and quickly, I might add) the newly-refined mechanics of the sequel in a contextual situation which doesn't feel arbitrarily tacked on and actually serves the purpose of advancing the plot. Can you imagine the backlash if the entire first 2/3s of the demo consisted only of Hakwe, Leandra et all lamenting the inhumanity of their desperate and sorrowful situation? Perhaps they could write a haiku or two, which we could read in the codex to further add to the palpable atmosphere and tension of the situation? Or maybe they could articulate their feelings about the Darkspawn attacking them via the medium of dance? God forbid they actually shut up for a minute or two and fight for their lives!

And as for the fact that the demo is heavily combat-orientated, can you imagine the backlash had they not focused on the one element of the game that the developers were banging consistantly on about fixing and updating? The shoe'd be on the other foot, and we'd probably find ourselves in a similar situation to this.

The demo wasn't perfect or ideal (I'd have loved to try out the inventory system and character creation, personally), but it did what it said on the tin. All of you who want to compare a 20 minute demo to a fully-developed title need to get a grip and save your sanctimonious QQing for when the game lands. Once you've played the final bloody version, by all means, whinge 'til your heart's content. Until then: get over yourselves.

Modifié par Cohesion, 02 mars 2011 - 07:16 .

[KLUME777]

Ramza_1 wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

Wait. What?
One completely fantasy orientated game containing magic/dragons/elves/demons and whatnot is completely believable? But another one containing the exact same thing isn't?
It is a fantasy game it is all pretend, we were supposed to leave our cynicism at the door - disbelief already suspended and all that.....................

No.  This is the most short sighted argument I've seen perpetrated on these boards (and elsewhere).  If you leave your disbelief at the door, then the world has already failed at immersion.  Disbelief is not an all-or-nothing response, just like good and evil are not black and white.  Its a continuum.  The world is more interesting if it can stand up to the scrutiny of your disbelief.

There are varying levels of "fantasy" in a fantasy setting that depend on how many of the rules for that setting are borrowed from the real world.  If you borrow more of those rules, like gravity, it becomes for "realistic".  Similarly, realism can be evoked by creating rules specifically for your fantasy setting that have a similar level of depth and explanation behind them as do real world rules, such as an intricate magic system. 

  What is the difference between not understanding magic or particle physics?  You don't "know" the truth behind either (unless you are a career physics researcher), so what makes one more real than the other?  Whether something is believable or not depends on the world you are in. 

Dragon age could be said to be a believable world, with a ruleset for social interactions, culture, magic, religion, etc, with layers of depth behind each of these that, while not comparable to the real world (was designed in 5 years as opposed to 7 billion), is an excellent mirror world.  Perhaps thedas does exist in an alternate reality, its believable.

As long as the rules are consistant and seem robust, and importantly, characters react to dragon age specific rules, like magic, as they do to real world rules, it leans more toward the believable side of the continuum.  People feel DAO is more realistic because more real world rules appear to apply than in most games, like the speed at which a human male can swing a broad sword.  This helps them suspend their disbelief.  If you take that away by making 2 handed swords appear to weigh nothing in comparison with super fast combat, the continuum swings ever so slightly back towards disbelief.   Without something to make up for that, the game seems slightly less real. 

Hopefully dragon age 2 will feel more real in terms of the character and the story, or perhaps the tension from the new fast combat will make up for some of the realism lost.  Anyway, my point is that you cannot simply say "its fantasy so anything goes".  If I had a talking unicorn steed I could summon by doing a small dance in DA2 that proved to be a major character, there better be a darned good lore explanation as to why or it would definately feel ludicrously unrealistic; too many dragon age specific and real world rules would be broken too quickly.  Is it dragon age fantasy, or some different kind of fantasy?  Players who crave immersion will pick up on inconsistency.

EXACTYLY!

That is what i meant!

[Valmarn]

ManiacalEvil wrote...

Valmarn wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

And another one comparing a full fledged game with a demo ... *sigh*

Well, a lot of DAO fans are displeased with the way DA2 has looked in the gameplay footage.

How do you expect them to react to the demo?

What bothers me is that they (BioWare) know well enough that quite a few fans of Dragon Age: Origins are a little perturbed with the direction taken with Dragon Age 2, and BW's main concern isn't to maintain their DAO fanbase.

Perhaps BioWare realizes that Dragon Age 2 doesn't have anything to offer that would change their minds, so they would just as soon make a demo that will help garner new customers.

Or perhaps they wanted to let them see how similar DA2 is to DA:O? They succeeded.

LOL... If their intention was to show how the two games are similar, they failed quite miserably at that.

Going into the demo with an open mind, and even a little bit excited to see what the gameplay was like first-hand...I found no similarities.

[Valmarn]

Ramza_1 wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

Wait. What?
One completely fantasy orientated game containing magic/dragons/elves/demons and whatnot is completely believable? But another one containing the exact same thing isn't?
It is a fantasy game it is all pretend, we were supposed to leave our cynicism at the door - disbelief already suspended and all that.....................

No.  This is the most short sighted argument I've seen perpetrated on these boards (and elsewhere).  If you leave your disbelief at the door, then the world has already failed at immersion.  Disbelief is not an all-or-nothing response, just like good and evil are not black and white.  Its a continuum.  The world is more interesting if it can stand up to the scrutiny of your disbelief.

There are varying levels of "fantasy" in a fantasy setting that depend on how many of the rules for that setting are borrowed from the real world.  If you borrow more of those rules, like gravity, it becomes for "realistic".  Similarly, realism can be evoked by creating rules specifically for your fantasy setting that have a similar level of depth and explanation behind them as do real world rules, such as an intricate magic system. 

  What is the difference between not understanding magic or particle physics?  You don't "know" the truth behind either (unless you are a career physics researcher), so what makes one more real than the other?  Whether something is believable or not depends on the world you are in. 

Dragon age could be said to be a believable world, with a ruleset for social interactions, culture, magic, religion, etc, with layers of depth behind each of these that, while not comparable to the real world (was designed in 5 years as opposed to 7 billion), is an excellent mirror world.  Perhaps thedas does exist in an alternate reality, its believable.

As long as the rules are consistant and seem robust, and importantly, characters react to dragon age specific rules, like magic, as they do to real world rules, it leans more toward the believable side of the continuum.  People feel DAO is more realistic because more real world rules appear to apply than in most games, like the speed at which a human male can swing a broad sword.  This helps them suspend their disbelief.  If you take that away by making 2 handed swords appear to weigh nothing in comparison with super fast combat, the continuum swings ever so slightly back towards disbelief.   Without something to make up for that, the game seems slightly less real. 

Hopefully dragon age 2 will feel more real in terms of the character and the story, or perhaps the tension from the new fast combat will make up for some of the realism lost.  Anyway, my point is that you cannot simply say "its fantasy so anything goes".  If I had a talking unicorn steed I could summon by doing a small dance in DA2 that proved to be a major character, there better be a darned good lore explanation as to why or it would definately feel ludicrously unrealistic; too many dragon age specific and real world rules would be broken too quickly.  Is it dragon age fantasy, or some different kind of fantasy?  Players who crave immersion will pick up on inconsistency.

QFT

[Back2basics]

I see where your coming from klume, I was hoping we would start in lothering as well and have a little time to build some kind of relationship with Hawke's family, though I suppose we will later in the game (except for the sibling that gets the boot). It does feeling like they just throw you into the action which isn't necessarily bad, just different. I'm sure there will be much more dialogue and stuff once you get to kirkwall and out of immediate trouble.

[Bluumberry]

dmsc123 wrote...

I was going to walk away but the last wtf was enough. Your right it's a DEMO, which means what? It demonstrates what is in the game... like flying around with 50 pound great swords isn't BS, how do I know, oh, it was in the demo. Killing 10 enemy with one blow isn't BS how do I know it was in the demo. Speaking of the enemy besides being an army with a crappy dential plan who are they? Are these the same slimy darkspawn that came up from the deep roads, they must have stopped by Calvin Kline armorers on their way to battlehow do I know... its in the demo. Lack of caring in the characters, how do I know... do I need to say it again? The demo represents the game and to cross my fingers hoping it gets better seems kinda silly, if this doesn't represent the game then they picked a lousy demo, by the way the remark about Aveline was just an observation nothing more.

Whine whine whine it looks different and feels a bit different so I must hate and white about it.

[BlackwaterUp2]

Bluumberry wrote...

dmsc123 wrote...

I was going to walk away but the last wtf was enough. Your right it's a DEMO, which means what? It demonstrates what is in the game... like flying around with 50 pound great swords isn't BS, how do I know, oh, it was in the demo. Killing 10 enemy with one blow isn't BS how do I know it was in the demo. Speaking of the enemy besides being an army with a crappy dential plan who are they? Are these the same slimy darkspawn that came up from the deep roads, they must have stopped by Calvin Kline armorers on their way to battlehow do I know... its in the demo. Lack of caring in the characters, how do I know... do I need to say it again? The demo represents the game and to cross my fingers hoping it gets better seems kinda silly, if this doesn't represent the game then they picked a lousy demo, by the way the remark about Aveline was just an observation nothing more.

Whine whine whine it looks different and feels a bit different so I must hate and white about it.

*Crosses arms and leans against a wall* No no no, let him finish.

As he mentioned before, he's part of the "Old Timers"....We'll only have to listen to his whining for a bit longer.

[Aidunno]

dmsc123 wrote...
... like flying around with 50 pound great swords isn't BS...

Visual style, so are fireballs being flung by mages. I can guarantee shooting a player with arrow from 100lb draw weight longbow would kill them. Plate armor may deflect it but dipping the arrowhead in beeswax to decrease the angle of deflection would improve the chances of a 1 hit kill even there. Not very much fun for the player though. You have to suspend belief when playing a game.

Killing 10 enemy with one blow isn't BS

Mages had the capability in DA:O and were overpowered in comparison to other classes. Bioware decided to enhance other classes rather than nerf mages. Seems sensible to me.

t...the enemy besides being an army with a crappy dental plan who are they?

Visual style, does not effect gameplay...

In fact looking at it, you are mostly not complaining about the game, you are frustrated by the visuals. As for characters, it takes time which we simply didn't have in the demo.I didn't care for any character in 30mins play in DAO either, even pappa and mamma cousland.

As he mentioned before, he's part of the "Old Timers"....We'll only have to listen to his whining for a bit longer.

Hey I resemble that remark.. I'm an old timer too.

Modifié par Aidunno, 02 mars 2011 - 09:36 .

[abyss-reaver]

-I will wait and probably buy this game... visuals are not so crucial for me, but i am only wondering why requirements are so high for such graphics o,O'
-Bio says it will be shorter, there will be more cinematics. Well if there were less idiotic mazes like deep roads [i don't hate mazes but in DA:O they were everywhere - and that was the reason of longer gamplay IMHO] it would be nice - it would be great if there were more dialogues but in the same time Bioware says that there will be less lines of speaking text - AND THAT IS a VERY VERY disappointing thing -.-

[android654]

Now you guys have made me hesitant about my pre-order.

[Klidi]

ten minutes conversation? yeah right, especially for a mage. the only conversation was "magic is a gift, but also a curse, so we'll throw you to demons to see if you can fight them" and it definitely did not take ten minutes. and then bang, you're in fade, fighting, without ANY weapon. If you did not choose primal spell during character creation, but, let's say, healing spell, it was not easy at all...
that said, a demo is just that - a demo. it's purpose is to show you some basics how the game will work, not tell you the whole story or reveal everything that will be there.

[KLUME777]

Klidi wrote...

ten minutes conversation? yeah right, especially for a mage. the only conversation was "magic is a gift, but also a curse, so we'll throw you to demons to see if you can fight them" and it definitely did not take ten minutes. and then bang, you're in fade, fighting, without ANY weapon. If you did not choose primal spell during character creation, but, let's say, healing spell, it was not easy at all...
that said, a demo is just that - a demo. it's purpose is to show you some basics how the game will work, not tell you the whole story or reveal everything that will be there.

Oh really?

You 2-shot kill some wisps, have a conversation with a rat that is a human, have a conversation with a warrior spirit, and then play a game of riddles with a demon, while ending with a twist that the rat is the true demon. A game of riddles, with a demon. At the beggining. Now that beggining pretty much sums up the majority of DAO.

The beggining part of the demo (Lothering part) has 3 short conversations and just boring wave of darkspawn, darkspaw, darkspawn. I only found Avaline interesting. Not the death of your brother, whom you've known for 20-odd years, but some woman that helps fight darkspawn.

[Aesieru]

You've played the game, eh?

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

Yrkoon wrote...

I just bought a car today. Haven't driven it yet, but I have tested out the horn, which IS a part of the car. And it sounds like crap. It's  a very gay "meep meep" sound. Therefore, I know for a fact that the car must totally suck.   lol

You bought a car after only honking the horn and thinking it sounds "gay?" I think your analogy needs more work. At least I'm hoping it's just an analogy, for your sake.

[Morning808]

I played Origins again for 2 minutes and then said "God I am soooo bored", so I quit and desided just to wait out the week to return to Dragon Age universe

[da0Xeffect]

Hawke:"He sacrificed himself for us"
Mother Hawke: "I don't want a hero, I want my son!"
Hawke:"You know what, Mother? You're right. Everyone hold hands and let's all remember Carver together."
Aveline:"But Hawke... the darkspa-"
Hawke: "Aveline, your hand. The darkspawn can wait for us to get our feelings out"

Usually in crisis, people have to move then mourn later. It happens. Also, the demo was showing the gameplay. Although its strong point is story, it would be foolish to reveal a lot of it.

[KLUME777]

da0Xeffect wrote...

Hawke:"He sacrificed himself for us"
Mother Hawke: "I don't want a hero, I want my son!"
Hawke:"You know what, Mother? You're right. Everyone hold hands and let's all remember Carver together."
Aveline:"But Hawke... the darkspa-"
Hawke: "Aveline, your hand. The darkspawn can wait for us to get our feelings out"

Usually in crisis, people have to move then mourn later. It happens. Also, the demo was showing the gameplay. Although its strong point is story, it would be foolish to reveal a lot of it.

Wait until after, huh?

When Flemeth swoops down and saves them all from danger, so there no longer under threat, literally a minute after his younger brother of 20 years just died brutally, Hawke cracks a joke about how he would like to be a dragon and talks casually to Flemeth and completely forgets about his brother. There mother isn't even crying.

[Morning808]

KLUME777 wrote...

da0Xeffect wrote...

Hawke:"He sacrificed himself for us"
Mother Hawke: "I don't want a hero, I want my son!"
Hawke:"You know what, Mother? You're right. Everyone hold hands and let's all remember Carver together."
Aveline:"But Hawke... the darkspa-"
Hawke: "Aveline, your hand. The darkspawn can wait for us to get our feelings out"

Usually in crisis, people have to move then mourn later. It happens. Also, the demo was showing the gameplay. Although its strong point is story, it would be foolish to reveal a lot of it.

Wait until after, huh?

When Flemeth swoops down and saves them all from danger, so there no longer under threat, literally a minute after his younger brother of 20 years just died brutally, Hawke cracks a joke about how he would like to be a dragon and talks casually to Flemeth and completely forgets about his brother. There mother isn't even crying.

Because they were useless and deserved to die since they toke on an Ogre by themselves.

Sorry but when you die that way you deserve to be forgotten, Which tends to happen with the starter teammates death in BioWare games...Only one that I can think about that the teammate died with honor was KoToR, if it wasn't for him your character would die

[Aesieru]

No, family isn't forgotten even for stupid decisions like that, they'd go down in infamy.

Wait and play the game before you act so juvenile in your thought processes, both of you.

None of you can make any conclusions as things could be completely different.

You can only conclude what they have told you...

[RhythmlessNinja]

Funny thing is, even with all the complaining I can promise you they will all still buy it in the end. From the demo all I saw were improvements left & right, aside from the terrible darkspawn remake. People are just afraid of change, if it was the same everything people would complain still, can't make everyone happy someone will always complain.

[Morning808]

Aesieru wrote...

No, family isn't forgotten even for stupid decisions like that, they'd go down in infamy.

Wait and play the game before you act so juvenile in your thought processes, both of you.

None of you can make any conclusions as things could be completely different.

You can only conclude what they have told you...

Oh no I'm sorry but thats the way I treat my teammates that way in all my games, You do a stupid move and you die by it, their character will end up being a little forgotten by me. After Jenkins died I never felt bad for him and never cared for him even after talking with the Doc about him.

If the Character dies trying to save me or another character I like, they tend to have a diffrent affect to me.

Hawke's Brother/Sister died in a way that I saw was pointless so I do not care about them and happy to see that characters in the game feel the same way a bit

Lession one: Don't take on a ogre by yourself

I do feel bad that they do die...a sad sad way but in the end I will not care after the cut scene  its not like I liked them from the start anyways...we shall see when I travel with one of them in the full game

[KLUME777]

Morning808 wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

da0Xeffect wrote...

Hawke:"He sacrificed himself for us"
Mother Hawke: "I don't want a hero, I want my son!"
Hawke:"You know what, Mother? You're right. Everyone hold hands and let's all remember Carver together."
Aveline:"But Hawke... the darkspa-"
Hawke: "Aveline, your hand. The darkspawn can wait for us to get our feelings out"

Usually in crisis, people have to move then mourn later. It happens. Also, the demo was showing the gameplay. Although its strong point is story, it would be foolish to reveal a lot of it.

Wait until after, huh?

When Flemeth swoops down and saves them all from danger, so there no longer under threat, literally a minute after his younger brother of 20 years just died brutally, Hawke cracks a joke about how he would like to be a dragon and talks casually to Flemeth and completely forgets about his brother. There mother isn't even crying.

Because they were useless and deserved to die since they toke on an Ogre by themselves.

Sorry but when you die that way you deserve to be forgotten, Which tends to happen with the starter teammates death in BioWare games...Only one that I can think about that the teammate died with honor was KoToR, if it wasn't for him your character would die

wth?

Either your a blind fanboy, or your a cold-blooded (insert curse) that has no care for even his own brother.

If it was my brother, i certainly wouldn't think:

"Oh well after doing a stupid thing like that and getting himself killed, im just gonna completely ignore and forget about my younger brother, who i love, simply because he did a foolish thing, while trying to save us".

[Piecake]

Ramza_1 wrote...

Jenova65 wrote...

Wait. What?
One completely fantasy orientated game containing magic/dragons/elves/demons and whatnot is completely believable? But another one containing the exact same thing isn't?
It is a fantasy game it is all pretend, we were supposed to leave our cynicism at the door - disbelief already suspended and all that.....................

No.  This is the most short sighted argument I've seen perpetrated on these boards (and elsewhere).  If you leave your disbelief at the door, then the world has already failed at immersion.  Disbelief is not an all-or-nothing response, just like good and evil are not black and white.  Its a continuum.  The world is more interesting if it can stand up to the scrutiny of your disbelief.

There are varying levels of "fantasy" in a fantasy setting that depend on how many of the rules for that setting are borrowed from the real world.  If you borrow more of those rules, like gravity, it becomes for "realistic".  Similarly, realism can be evoked by creating rules specifically for your fantasy setting that have a similar level of depth and explanation behind them as do real world rules, such as an intricate magic system. 

  What is the difference between not understanding magic or particle physics?  You don't "know" the truth behind either (unless you are a career physics researcher), so what makes one more real than the other?  Whether something is believable or not depends on the world you are in. 

Dragon age could be said to be a believable world, with a ruleset for social interactions, culture, magic, religion, etc, with layers of depth behind each of these that, while not comparable to the real world (was designed in 5 years as opposed to 7 billion), is an excellent mirror world.  Perhaps thedas does exist in an alternate reality, its believable.

As long as the rules are consistant and seem robust, and importantly, characters react to dragon age specific rules, like magic, as they do to real world rules, it leans more toward the believable side of the continuum.  People feel DAO is more realistic because more real world rules appear to apply than in most games, like the speed at which a human male can swing a broad sword.  This helps them suspend their disbelief.  If you take that away by making 2 handed swords appear to weigh nothing in comparison with super fast combat, the continuum swings ever so slightly back towards disbelief.   Without something to make up for that, the game seems slightly less real. 

Hopefully dragon age 2 will feel more real in terms of the character and the story, or perhaps the tension from the new fast combat will make up for some of the realism lost.  Anyway, my point is that you cannot simply say "its fantasy so anything goes".  If I had a talking unicorn steed I could summon by doing a small dance in DA2 that proved to be a major character, there better be a darned good lore explanation as to why or it would definately feel ludicrously unrealistic; too many dragon age specific and real world rules would be broken too quickly.  Is it dragon age fantasy, or some different kind of fantasy?  Players who crave immersion will pick up on inconsistency.

The problem I have with DAO combat is that while combat animations were somewhat realistic, the combat was not.  What I mean by this is that I find the idea that 4 regular people could slaughter hordes and hordes of enemies in the thousands without taking a single casualty completely absurd.  Giving you and your companions super fast combat animations makes that more believable for me since I find it more believable that a person who can swing a sword super fast or fly around the battlefield actually has a chance to kill those thousands of enemies.