300 réponses à ce sujet

[DJ0000]

Origins was the first of the series so it required you to learn the lore so you could understand what was going on. By now the die hard fans know all the lore anyway so they can jump into the action to start and then get to the lore when they have something new to say.

Also, a demo is generally all about combat, people playing it for the first time want to know what the gameplay is about. They might find it boring to spend 20 minutes of a 40 minute demo talking is they have no prediposed understanding of the game world.

Also after Flemeth helping you it skips a huge step to where the battle with Isabela is. You jump from level 2 or 3 to level 6 so that's a fair distance.

[rob_k]

It'll probably be even worse at release, Malja, sadly.

[kingjezza]

Yrkoon wrote...

kingjezza wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

And another one comparing a full fledged game with a demo ... *sigh*

they are compaing the start of both games,

In that case, the OP is being woefully dishonest.

I just started a new game of DA:O myself. 

Lets see.   in the first 20 minutes....

1) Combat -  What combat?  Me,  my dog,  and a temparary red-headed companion who's gear I cannot remove or change off, have just finished an epic battle  against a bunch of RATS   (rats? lol) in the kitchen of a castle.  Each and every one of them could be one-shotted.  Combat is pathetically easy.
2)Excitement-  Yay!  I just explored a library,  and had a thrilling conversation with an old sage and learned some history!  Then I clicked on a book and read about the Maker!
3) Graphics - Brown.  And Grey.  Lets write a review about that
4)  Drama -   Oh....  some of my relatives just died.  Oh well,  the game really didn't  give  me  a chance to get to know them so, whatever.

NOW.....  now that the playing field as been accurately leveled, lets do that comparison again....

Are you implying the battle with the giant rats wasn't epic!

I like the slow and conisidered start to Origins, you just wander around a bit, kill a few rats, talk to some people etc

I'll take that over the 'wham, Kaboom, exploding darkspawn' route which DA2 took but yeah each to their own

[Malja]

rob_k wrote...

It'll probably be even worse at release, Malja, sadly.

Oh the joy. I suppose it sounds fine that at least they can ramble about a full game, but I have a feeling those who'll complain out of their arse won't bother to play more than 20 minutes.

[KLUME777]

The RustMonster wrote...


The demo and introduction were specifically designed to get the attention of people outside the core audience of DA. BioWare knows most of their fans will buy Dragon Age, but any company is always looking at ways to increase the size of their market. Mike Laidlaw has said that they go straight to the action to grab the attention of non-hardcore RPG fans and then ease them into the RPG-ness of the game.

Why should i care about new fans? Not everyone of DAO will buy the next, i know a few people like my brother who canceled there pre-order already becaus they were dissapointed in the changes. If there gonna go straight to the action, there abandoning DAO's identity and just trying to copy other action games out there. Now i like action games, shooters, all genres of games (level 6 prestige on MW2), but i like DAO for what it was, DA2 is way too similar but not ass good as other action games out there. ME had a better dialogue wheel, God of War better combat, DAO better Tactical feel.

So...magic and elves and dwarves was believable? Same with the demons and darkspawn and dragons? You're perfectly fine accepting these things as realistic, but not someone jumping while they fight? That's more than a little bit confusing to me.

And Star Wars has laser weapons and starfighters. It doesn't matter what it has, but how its done. DAO was done in a more realistic way, even the animations in DAO were normal, in DA2 its like a fast paced action cartoon-y game with all the jumping and the way the darkspawn move. I could easily live in DAO because it feels like real life, but not in DA2.

[sassperella]

A lot of people had already made up their minds long before playing the demo that they weren't going to like it. Bioware could have given anything in the demo, but unless it was a carbon copy of DA:O with a new story a lot of people were determined to hate it.

You can't please all of the people all of the time....

[rob_k]

Malja wrote...

rob_k wrote...

It'll probably be even worse at release, Malja, sadly.

Oh the joy. I suppose it sounds fine that at least they can ramble about a full game, but I have a feeling those who'll complain out of their arse won't bother to play more than 20 minutes.

Or they'll be here complaining as though they hate the game, while they're actually still playing the game.  Playing a game one hates does not compute.

Sadly, I'll probably have to stick around as I'll want to do a bit of self-promotion for game guides and there's no better place to do it other than the forum for the game that the guides are written for.

[Metalunatic]

Lets not judge before playing both games, all right?

[JasmoVT]

I just can't help remembering I did not like the changes in ME2 at first nor did I like the changes in Oblivion from Marrowind. In the end I spent hundreds of hours between the two. On the other hand I never could get to like the Witcher so I abandoned. No way to know until you play a few hours.

[Undeff]

I'm more than willing to give DA2 a chance considering I've only played the demo, but my sentiments do tend to agree that it won't be as masterful as "Origins." I'm just doing my best to head in with lower expectations, that way if anything doesn't strike my fancy I won't be too disappointed.

A terrible strategy for a gamer, but at least it's usually effective...

[Malja]

At times I do wonder if people would just enjoy it more if they disregarded it as a sequel.

[KLUME777]

SnakeHelah wrote...

KLUME777 wrote...

...It amazed me how much Dragon Age: Origins is so much better than Dragon Age 2, or at least the demo.

In DAO, you always start the game with your PC in a conversation, and it takes at least 10 minutes to get into a fight, and thats if you rush. There is so much lore and atmosphere and feelings, story building up at the beggining of the game, its non-linear, and people to talk to.

In DA2, theres none of this, no tension culminating. You start straight away in the combat, unless anyone can verify that thats not how the game really starts (which i doubt). The whole demo (is this really the begginning of DA2?) you just fight enemies, with hardly any conversation or exploring, just boring, linear battle (plus the german review said most the whole game including Kirkwall was linear). And then the second you get to Kirkwall, again straight into the action. Why does it have to be so fast paced, and why does everyone have to jump around like there on speed (How is it Possible for Varric to do that massive backflip). And his Crossbow is a shotgun.
If thats what they mean by time jumping straight into the action, and skipping all the "boring" bits, then i hate it.

I find it hard for the DA2 world to be believable, why do the darkspawn jump around like those monkey things from the Wizard of Oz, Varric's Arrow sky volley ability looks like it belongs to Ratchet and Clank. DAO was extremely believable, it was done in a believable manner, it was real. DA2 is not.

So far, the DA2 demo has shown nothing that made me fall in love with DAO so im a really dissapointed with it, Bioware.

There are many other faults, but im too tired too list them all.

I will still get it (i have Sig edition), but my older brother has already canceled his Pre-Order.

Do you even understand the term "non linear"? Uhhh, Just how is DA2 linear and DAO non linear? DAO was as linear as it can get. The only choice you had was to do sidequests or the main quest line... In DA2 I expect the same. You want non linear games? Go play TES games, Oblivion, wait for skyrim, those are rpgs that are truly non linear, and allow you to do anything you want.

I meant in level design, places like Denerim, Brecilian forest, Ostagar, Sacred Ashes, Orzamar etc.

In DA2, all the levels were very linear, just straight forward.

*speculation: The German magazine said most of levels including Kirkwall were very linear in design which is very dissapointing.

And yes, i am huge fans with over 300hrs in Oblivion, Fallout 3, New Vegas is reaching that hour mark, and i am avidly anticipating Skyrim, look at my comment on my profile. I know what true non linear RPG's are, but i was talking about level design.

[Veex]

KLUME777 wrote...

Why should i care about new fans? Not everyone of DAO will buy the next, i know a few people like my brother who canceled there pre-order already becaus they were dissapointed in the changes. If there gonna go straight to the action, there abandoning DAO's identity and just trying to copy other action games out there.

You shouldn't, but BioWare certainly does. You are correct that there are people who purchased DA:O who won't play the sequel. But that number is infinitely smaller than those who didn't even purchase DA:O. BioWare as a company has to entice new segments of the market to play their games or gradually dwindle. You simply can't sit on your laurels and pray that your existing fanbase will continue to churn up every carbon copy you make.

Games change and evolve for a reason, and it isn't to abandon a series identity. This is still Dragon Age, David Gaider still wrote the story, and BioWare still produced the game. You don't set what the identity is, they do.

[Yrkoon]

kingjezza wrote...

I like the slow and conisidered start to Origins, you just wander around a bit, kill a few rats, talk to some people etc

  That's fine.  But the OP wants "tension".  Said so in his/her opening post.

Walking around, leasurely taking in the scenery and killing a few rats is not a tension build up.

On the other hand, being surrounded by darkspawn then getting saved by an ancient and mysterious legend of the realms IS...

If the OP wishes to be taken seriously, they probably need to start making some sense.  And it wouldn't hurt to  add in some perspective.  The DA2 demo is not even the full prologue of the game.  There's only so much you can  glean from  a friggin comercial.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 28 février 2011 - 01:01 .

[Nerevar-as]

KLUME777 wrote...

And Star Wars has laser weapons and starfighters. It doesn't matter what it has, but how its done. DAO was done in a more realistic way, even the animations in DAO were normal, in DA2 its like a fast paced action cartoon-y game with all the jumping and the way the darkspawn move. I could easily live in DAO because it feels like real life, but not in DA2.

To be fair "down to earth" (I won´t use realism, some people take it too literal) fighting was abandoned in Awakening. The rogue back then puts the DA2 one to shame, especially with the Shadow especialization ninja tricks. 
I feel curious. Do people find the fights in Conan the Barbarian boring?

[Jenova65]

Wait. What?
One completely fantasy orientated game containing magic/dragons/elves/demons and whatnot is completely believable? But another one containing the exact same thing isn't?
It is a fantasy game it is all pretend, we were supposed to leave our cynicism at the door - disbelief already suspended and all that.....................

[31416]

Rakia_Time wrote...

I can't go back to Origins after playing the demo...i tried but i just can't...

Can't go back to demo after playing Origins....tried but just can't..

[Darji]

Nerevar-as wrote...

I guess the demo focused in combat because it was percieved as Origins weakest point. However I agree the beginning of the game is really weak: you barely have time to make a connection with Hawke´s family, or Wesley. At least with the templar you see Aveline´s grief, with the sibling it seems only the mother cares.
It seems as if BW is afraid of scaring away players who care mostly about fast action than story, and taking the rest of us for granted. I hope the game doesn´t go only for instant gratification, and then has no long term payoff.

No it wasnt the weakest point in Origins. That would be the sidequests. They choose the combat demo because thats the thing they really changed. And also it sells alot better on consoles with this kind of action and gore.

[KLUME777]

tez19 wrote...

Klume, you fail.

Please explain. No really, i am in awe of your insight.


If you have nothing constructive to add, dont comment.

[KLUME777]

sassperella wrote...

A lot of people had already made up their minds long before playing the demo that they weren't going to like it. Bioware could have given anything in the demo, but unless it was a carbon copy of DA:O with a new story a lot of people were determined to hate it.

You can't please all of the people all of the time....

No, actually, i was generally looking forward to the game. I was a little worrid, but i was looking forward and excited to it.

[tez19]

KLUME777 wrote...

tez19 wrote...

Klume, you fail.

Please explain. No really, i am in awe of your insight.


If you have nothing constructive to add, dont comment.

I would think it was pretty damn obvious.
Comparing the start of a game to a demo.
Also that after the combat and you meet Flemeth it could be an abundance of talking when you get to kirkwall.
You fail completely.

[blauregen]

Malja wrote...

At times I do wonder if people would just enjoy it more if they disregarded it as a sequel.

Oh definitely. Had they called it 'Hawke:The Splattering.' instead of 'Dragon Age 2', I would have expected a kind of fantasy shooter with rudimentary story and gameplay along the lines of ME2, and would have made a mental note to buy it once it hits the bargain bin from the beginning.

As it is, I was of course disappointed when I read about 'streamlining' and 'getting rid of unimportant details like codex books' and when I found my suspicions confirmed in the demo. It doesn't mean it is a bad game. It just isn't something I would buy at full price. I sometimes like the simplicity and twitch-style of a shooter too, and I likely will play it around next year. It just doesnt look like the RPG I initially expected.

[sassperella]

KLUME777 wrote...

sassperella wrote...

A lot of people had already made up their minds long before playing the demo that they weren't going to like it. Bioware could have given anything in the demo, but unless it was a carbon copy of DA:O with a new story a lot of people were determined to hate it.

You can't please all of the people all of the time....

No, actually, i was generally looking forward to the game. I was a little worrid, but i was looking forward and excited to it.

Then wait until you play the full game before deciding. This was two slices of the game spliced together to show the new combat system. It was bound to be full of combat. The story is something that's better discovered by playing the game, and may contain spoilers that they didn't want you to know about. Just because you didn't see much story doesn't mean there won't be any. The arrival at Kirkwall was a cut, a huge chunk was cut out there that's not how the game goes.

[KLUME777]

Yrkoon wrote...

kingjezza wrote...

I like the slow and conisidered start to Origins, you just wander around a bit, kill a few rats, talk to some people etc

  That's fine.  But the OP wants "tension".  Said so in his/her opening post.

Walking around, leasurely taking in the scenery and killing a few rats is not a tension build up.

On the other hand, being surrounded by darkspawn then getting saved by an ancient and mysterious legend of the realms IS...

If the OP wishes to be taken seriously, they probably need to start making some sense.  And it wouldn't hurt to  add in some perspective.  The DA2 demo is not even the full prologue of the game.  There's only so much you can  glean from  a friggin comercial.

Tension is not the right word, i did mention i was tired. What i meant was there was something (atmosphere?) that builds up all the way to the battle at Osagar.

Eg: Human Noble, they talk about gathering the troops including your brother to send down south to defend against the darkspawn. That piqued my interest, when i get to Ostagar, all the soldiers are standing around, almost restless for the battle, captains warning against the taint, some wounded soldiers, the continiung nagging thought of what exactly is this "joining" ritual....etc.

[Fredvdp]

Veex wrote...

Dalish origin disagrees with you!@

Boom! Headshot!

(Translation: Very good point.)