Aller au contenu

Photo

Wow, after starting a new game of Origins...


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
300 réponses à ce sujet

#101
keginkc

keginkc
  • Members
  • 869 messages

RVallant wrote...

Now see, this is the argument when combined with others defending DA2's action-goes-super-fast gameplay that doesn't make sense. If these changes are being done to bring in new fans who haven't played DA:O then they need to be introduced to the world, cultures and history anyway.

Hopefully the combat will be slowed down a bit, it's way too fast and arcady at the moment. A solid enemy is one that has to be fought not spawn of cannon fodder. One blog review makes the point; the darkspawn aren't nearly intimidating enough to care about because they just spawn constantly at the start all the way through. By the time Hawke points out they're never ending most logical reactions would be "and so? We've taken out an army of the things already I'm sure we can take out three more armies before we get tired."

The two camps, one criticising the game and the other adamantly defending it both display flaws of fanboyism to whichever game being thrown in the discussion. DA2's demo is flawed, there's a lot to be improved upon. The hilarious power-rangers and skeletor's army of darkspawn for example. The exceptionally drastic art changes (read: Flemeth) and the pace of the damn game. Those aren't my complaints, those are cropping up on DA2 game forums across the net, it's not just being said here but all over the place. That warrants attention.

However, it doesn't mean the positives should be ignored. The travel/combat areas should in theory go smoother and quicker allowing for the dialogue lovers to move to the next dialogue points quicker. We should have a new interest in Flemeth's little plot as well as the Hawke family (and yes, Carver/Bethany dieing is emotionless because well, I don't know them and nor do I care. Maybe I'll be more emotionally attached to them if there's plot building prior to the lothering escape but who knows).

But yeah, neither side should dismiss everything or defend everything. We'll just have to wait and see, if it bothers a player that much then don't pre-order, don't buy on release and wait until a clearer picture emerges. That's what the sensible people do :)


I wasn't speaking in any way about the speed of combat.  I was simply talking about diving directly into action at the start of the game.   Basically everything you would need to know about what's going on was established in the first game.  You already know where you are, you already know what's happening, you already know who you're fighting (although, oddly, they look a bit...different  :whistle:).  You don't need an extended setup in a relatively benign location to introduce you to the Dragon Age world, because this is a sequel....

And even if it wasn't, or even if they're targetting a new audience, the fact remains that it's just a different way of starting a story, closer to the action, rather than with a narrative setup.

Although, technically, it does start with narrative.   Hariy Varric does do quite a bit of talking.

And, really, with regards to the thread starter, DAO itself doesn't start with ten minutes of conversation before combat, at least not for a mage (my most recent origin play....).  You're hitting a wisp wraith with spells about a minute after you create your character.

And then Awakening begins, literally, in combat.

Action does not preclude story.

#102
Sacred_Fantasy

Sacred_Fantasy
  • Members
  • 2 311 messages
Next game evolution is Call of Duty. Their audience is too large to ignore for business. We don't expect shooting in medieval fantasy RPG. But the formula is there. Full action pack and lightning speed reflexion. Prepare for changes, OP. You can't stop the waves. People want more fast action nowdays compare to reading lore.

#103
android654

android654
  • Members
  • 6 105 messages

Elsariel wrote...

android654 wrote...

Elsariel wrote...

android654 wrote...

Coldest wrote...

Origins and DA2 are two different games and you're allowed to love them both. What about this is so hard to understand?


The part I don't understand is how can someone hate something they've barely seen?


To be fair, I don't think the OP was about hatred so much as disappointment.


Fair enough, but 40 to 100+ hours compared to 25 minutes is not sufficient to make a comparrison in my opinion.


Absolutely, totally, 100% agreed.  Posted Image


I'm still new here, but did people freak out like this when ME2 came out? Before it came out?

#104
Ryllen Laerth Kriel

Ryllen Laerth Kriel
  • Members
  • 3 001 messages

BobSmith101 wrote...

Veex wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Not if you started the game in that area rather than in Ferelden.


I suppose that is true. With a fixed human protaganist you could introduce the differences in politics etc... between the Free Marches and Fereldan. I'm not sure it would make a lot of sense to do another introduction on Dalish or Dwarves though.


I don't really know enough details for specfics, but you could have a surface dwarf origin and the Dalish probably have their own probems in that region as well related to a particular tribe. Quanari is another one you could have added.


Since they are getting into fixed protagonists, they could always of made the dwarven option for DA 2 Sandal. He and his foster father are in Lothering about the time it is burned, plus it would be comedy gold to have every option on the dialogue wheel say "Enchantment" with different mood icons next to them to indicate inflection.

Bodan: We must flee my boy, leave the cart behind!

"Enchantment?" Posted Image-              -  "Enchantment!" Posted Image

                                       Sandal: 
"Enchantment..." Posted Image-              -  "Enchantment?!" Posted Image

#105
Sacred_Fantasy

Sacred_Fantasy
  • Members
  • 2 311 messages

android654 wrote...
I'm still new here, but did people freak out like this when ME2 came out? Before it came out?

Yup. I don't bother with Mass Effect 2 anymore. Mass Effect doesn't exist in my game directory.

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 28 février 2011 - 02:57 .


#106
android654

android654
  • Members
  • 6 105 messages

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Next game evolution is Call of Duty. Their audience is too large to ignore for business. We don't expect shooting in medieval fantasy RPG. But the formula is there. Full action pack and lightning speed reflexion. Prepare for changes, OP. You can't stop the waves. People want more fast action nowdays compare to reading lore.


The gameplay is nothing like COD. I've played their campaigns; their extremely small campaigns, and the gameplay here is more akin to its predecessor than any other action game i can think of. But, i do agree that COD has huge audiences, so every developer is turning their eyes toward that.

Modifié par android654, 28 février 2011 - 03:00 .


#107
Sacred_Fantasy

Sacred_Fantasy
  • Members
  • 2 311 messages

android654 wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Next game evolution is Call of Duty. Their audience is too large to ignore for business. We don't expect shooting in medieval fantasy RPG. But the formula is there. Full action pack and lightning speed reflexion. Prepare for changes, OP. You can't stop the waves. People want more fast action nowdays compare to reading lore.


The gameplay is nothing like COD. I've played their campaigns; they're extremely small campaigns, and the gameplay here is more akin to its predecessor than any other action game i can think of. But, i do agree that COD has huge audiences, so every developer is turning their eyes toward that.

Not now but it's obvious Bioware wants COD audience.

#108
MKDAWUSS

MKDAWUSS
  • Members
  • 3 416 messages

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Next game evolution is Call of Duty. Their audience is too large to ignore for business. We don't expect shooting in medieval fantasy RPG. But the formula is there. Full action pack and lightning speed reflexion. Prepare for changes, OP. You can't stop the waves. People want more fast action nowdays compare to reading lore.


Just advance the timeline to the "modern era" and you could easy have COD in the DA universe...

Modifié par MKDAWUSS, 28 février 2011 - 02:59 .


#109
Korzan12

Korzan12
  • Members
  • 14 messages
Well if I can just add my two cents... I will agree with the OP about one thing. The beggining of the game. It would have been a much smoother start if you actually got to be in lothering for a bit before you had to escape (If you played a mage) and you could have been practicing spells with your sister, while on the other hand if you were a warrior or rogue hawke, then you would be in the kings army with your brother and getting ready for the massive battle with the darkspawn and then having to flee back to lothering for your family. To me this would have made the beggining much more impressive.

Edit* Also to fill in bits with fun you could have had Mage hawke defending the village from bandits and looters while everyone was away with the army and the refuges starting to come while waiting for carver to come home before leaving. Where as on the Warrior/rogue side you would have developed more of a personal relationship with carver before he dies making his characters death much more impacted since you had him with your through this big battle and then escaped together (A brother in arms kind of thing) Same goes for the mage hawke, you develop this relationship with your sister while your brother is away.

To me that would have added alot more depth and meaning to the start of the game and would also fulfill that (origins choose your beggining path taste) While not to the deep extent as to being a dwarf or elf etc but atleast your beggining point could be played out differently.

Modifié par Korzan12, 28 février 2011 - 03:05 .


#110
Sacred_Fantasy

Sacred_Fantasy
  • Members
  • 2 311 messages

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Next game evolution is Call of Duty. Their audience is too large to ignore for business. We don't expect shooting in medieval fantasy RPG. But the formula is there. Full action pack and lightning speed reflexion. Prepare for changes, OP. You can't stop the waves. People want more fast action nowdays compare to reading lore.


Just advance the timeline to the "modern era" and you could easy have COD in the DA universe...

Muahaha. I love your idea. Medieval people should learn how to create and master gun quickly. 

Modifié par Sacred_Fantasy, 28 février 2011 - 03:03 .


#111
android654

android654
  • Members
  • 6 105 messages

Korzan12 wrote...

Well if I can just add my two cents... I will agree with the OP about one thing. The beggining of the game. It would have been a much smoother start if you actually got to be in lothering for a bit before you had to escape (If you played a mage) and you could have been practicing spells with your sister, while on the other hand if you were a warrior or rogue hawke, then you would be in the kings army with your brother and getting ready for the massive battle with the darkspawn and then having to flee back to lothering for your family. To me this would have made the beggining much more impressive.


That's just it, we've got no idea about how it really starts until the 8th.

#112
Chzrm

Chzrm
  • Members
  • 16 messages

KLUME777 wrote...Other action games like God of War (or even
DAO) have better combat, so it makes no sense to pull in new players by
showing just combat. And it leaves a sour taste for (some) of the fans of the first.


It's
worth pointing out that even in the bioware community, the reaction to
the new gameplay in the demo was overwhelmingly positive. There are
people that hate it because they loved DA:O's gameplay and didn't feel
it need to be changed, but the majority of opinions fluctuate from
"pleasantly surprised" to "this is amazing".

However, outside of the bioware community, almost everyone is loving the new combat. I had a lot of friends, for example, who'd watched me play DA:O and even tried it for themselves, but never ended up buying it because the combat was too slow-paced for them. I told them all to try the demo and they've all been raving about it since then. People that only watched me play DA:O for about 30 minutes are now eagerly anticipating DA2... that's pretty cool.

So yeah, as others have said, the demo was set up mostly to appeal to new players. The game was built to appeal to a larger core audience. Don't worry, though - look at Mass Effect 2. Combat, leveling, and inventory were all overhauled so that it would appeal to more players. As a rabid ME fan, I was heartbroken and protested all of this... yet ME2 came and I was in love with it.

I know where you're coming from. Seeing a game changed so much, when its gameplay was perfect in your own eyes, can seem a little strange. In its heart, however, DA2 will always be an rpg first, and an action game second. I'm sure we'll all get exactly what we're looking for from DA2 by the end of our time with it.

#113
Yrkoon

Yrkoon
  • Members
  • 4 764 messages

android654 wrote...
I'm still new here, but did people freak out like this when ME2 came out? Before it came out?

Yes.

And we can go even further back... back to the nostalgic classics.

I was there  posting on the Black Isle message boards  before Baldur's gate 2 came out  (the Bio Boards didn't exist back then), and the Nerd rage was *rampant*  for every single miniscule change from the Original that Bioware dared to announce.

-There were gripes about  the increased levels you could reach  (some people HATED the notion of  high level campaigns)
-There were gripes about the graphics  (yes the graphics.  people actually saw the Graphics for BG2 and called them a step down from Bg1)
-There were gripes about  Dual wielding   (ask David Gaider about that one.  Mention the word "Karzak" to him.  See what he says.  lol.)
-There were gripes about nerfed grand mastery
-There were gripes about romances in video games
-There were gripes about imoen
-There were gripes about what little snippets of the story that were revealed to us


And the pronouncements were precisely the same:

Bioware has sold out
Bioware is trying to cater to little kids
Bioware is alienating its fan base
Bioware is dead


History repeats itself...over and over again, and gamers are ever the cliche.  They NEVER change.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 28 février 2011 - 03:11 .


#114
rob_k

rob_k
  • Members
  • 334 messages
It's also worth pointing out that while it's only one site, DA 2 has gone from being 3rd on the top seller list of Steam to 1st since Friday. This is the UK site btw. And the Steam forums had people complaining in the demo impressions thread.

#115
Korzan12

Korzan12
  • Members
  • 14 messages

android654 wrote...

Korzan12 wrote...

Well if I can just add my two cents... I will agree with the OP about one thing. The beggining of the game. It would have been a much smoother start if you actually got to be in lothering for a bit before you had to escape (If you played a mage) and you could have been practicing spells with your sister, while on the other hand if you were a warrior or rogue hawke, then you would be in the kings army with your brother and getting ready for the massive battle with the darkspawn and then having to flee back to lothering for your family. To me this would have made the beggining much more impressive.


That's just it, we've got no idea about how it really starts until the 8th.


True... but I heard somewhere (Sorry if im wrong) that the beggining of the demo and the beggining of the game played out very much the same?

#116
Elsariel

Elsariel
  • Members
  • 1 003 messages

Yrkoon wrote...
History repeats itself...over and over again, and gamers are ever the cliche.  They NEVER change.


Truth has been spoken here.

#117
TwistedComplex

TwistedComplex
  • Members
  • 1 441 messages
That's funny cause after having played the FUNNER combat of DA2, i can't go back to origins and deal with that clunky, shuffle, heal potion spam fest

#118
dreamextractor

dreamextractor
  • Members
  • 922 messages
So can you send me your copy of DA II, since you clearly have one?

#119
TwistedComplex

TwistedComplex
  • Members
  • 1 441 messages

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Next game evolution is Call of Duty. Their audience is too large to ignore for business. We don't expect shooting in medieval fantasy RPG. But the formula is there. Full action pack and lightning speed reflexion. Prepare for changes, OP. You can't stop the waves. People want more fast action nowdays compare to reading lore.


Hey, i wouldn't mind a first person Eldar Scroll type game for Dragon Age

#120
MasterSamson88

MasterSamson88
  • Members
  • 1 651 messages

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I feel the opposite. I find Origins completely unplayable at this point for a number of reasons. That was before the demo for DA2 was even released though, and once it was it simply highlighted all the ways Origins failed. I also feel similarly about ME1 vs. ME2, despite the fact that DAO and ME1 are two of my favorite games I tend to agree with almost all the changes made by the developers in both sequels.

But hey, to each his own.


Yeah I pretty much agree with you on all fronts.

One huge difference I've noticed is definitely  Mage and 2h warrior, vs them in Origins. Both really are a lot more fun to play in DAII. In Origins I find myself looking at my wage to see when the next swing from my greatsword will be.

The other huge difference is cinimatics. Spending so much time in cutscenes is fine, but in Origins you realize how wooden the characters are. They literally just don't move anywhere. The Human Noble Origin is incredibly boring without any proper cinimatics. It's just literally face close up to face close up.

Modifié par MasterSamson88, 28 février 2011 - 03:17 .


#121
MKDAWUSS

MKDAWUSS
  • Members
  • 3 416 messages

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

MKDAWUSS wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Next game evolution is Call of Duty. Their audience is too large to ignore for business. We don't expect shooting in medieval fantasy RPG. But the formula is there. Full action pack and lightning speed reflexion. Prepare for changes, OP. You can't stop the waves. People want more fast action nowdays compare to reading lore.


Just advance the timeline to the "modern era" and you could easy have COD in the DA universe...

Muahaha. I love your idea. Medieval people should learn how to create and master gun quickly. 



You could be a footsoldier running through a modern day Denerim with a automatic rifle, shooting numerous Hurlocks, and a dwarf comes running by with a rocket launcher strapped to his shoulder, and he blows up a rather nice looking car, taking out 3 Genlocks in the process...

#122
Elsariel

Elsariel
  • Members
  • 1 003 messages

TwistedComplex wrote...

Sacred_Fantasy wrote...

Next game evolution is Call of Duty. Their audience is too large to ignore for business. We don't expect shooting in medieval fantasy RPG. But the formula is there. Full action pack and lightning speed reflexion. Prepare for changes, OP. You can't stop the waves. People want more fast action nowdays compare to reading lore.


Hey, i wouldn't mind a first person Eldar Scroll type game for Dragon Age


I wouldn't mind that either.  You got my vote!

#123
android654

android654
  • Members
  • 6 105 messages

Korzan12 wrote...

android654 wrote...

Korzan12 wrote...

Well if I can just add my two cents... I will agree with the OP about one thing. The beggining of the game. It would have been a much smoother start if you actually got to be in lothering for a bit before you had to escape (If you played a mage) and you could have been practicing spells with your sister, while on the other hand if you were a warrior or rogue hawke, then you would be in the kings army with your brother and getting ready for the massive battle with the darkspawn and then having to flee back to lothering for your family. To me this would have made the beggining much more impressive.


That's just it, we've got no idea about how it really starts until the 8th.


True... but I heard somewhere (Sorry if im wrong) that the beggining of the demo and the beggining of the game played out very much the same?


Sincerely doubt it. Bioware has too strong a reputation for their strong stories to let that be the beginning to a long game.

Modifié par android654, 28 février 2011 - 03:25 .


#124
android654

android654
  • Members
  • 6 105 messages

Korzan12 wrote...

android654 wrote...

Korzan12 wrote...

Well if I can just add my two cents... I will agree with the OP about one thing. The beggining of the game. It would have been a much smoother start if you actually got to be in lothering for a bit before you had to escape (If you played a mage) and you could have been practicing spells with your sister, while on the other hand if you were a warrior or rogue hawke, then you would be in the kings army with your brother and getting ready for the massive battle with the darkspawn and then having to flee back to lothering for your family. To me this would have made the beggining much more impressive.


That's just it, we've got no idea about how it really starts until the 8th.


True... but I heard somewhere (Sorry if im wrong) that the beggining of the demo and the beggining of the game played out very much the same?


Sincerely doubt it. Bioware has too strong a reputation for their strong stories to let that be the beginning to a long game.

#125
Curlain

Curlain
  • Members
  • 1 829 messages
To to be fair though, the whole point of a demo is to allow potential players to get a feel for a game to and judge it and decide if it's something they want to play. So for good or ill, it is right that people do make judgements on the game based on the demo and whether it's something they wish to spend their money on. Waiting to buy the game and only to find out then you don't like it isn't a viable solution for quite a few of us for whom money isn't exactly that abundant.

So the demo really is the only way for players right now to judge the game, if the demo isn't correctly conveying a true sense of the game, then that is a fault with the demo unfortunately. If it does, then it's legitimate to make decisions based on it.

For myself, I've long since come to see DA2 as a different RPG set in the Dragon Age world, rather then as a sequel in any real sense (in style or story) to Origins, and just look at it on it's own merits (if I still looked at it like a sequel to Origins I'd remain disappointed) and think it'll be a fun game though not as great as Origins. Maybe it would help if the OP looked at it like that

Modifié par Curlain, 28 février 2011 - 03:26 .