109 réponses à ce sujet

[Grovermancer]

I'm currently on my 3rd run-through, as a 2-Handed Dwarf.  My second was a Blood Mage, lvl 22.  (almost hit 23!) 

Now, then...  WHY ARE BLOOD MAGES SUPPOSEDLY EVIL?

Sure, I played it evil, and did every evil thing I could in the game, and most of my party left or got slaughtered, as did anyone else I encountered.  But what is INHERENTLY evil about Blood Mages?

I guess the canon is that they open the veil for demons to come through...?  Is that why?

But seriously, look at their powers!  None of them are as bad as half the regular spell-tree powers all Mages can use.  (the most evil of which I took for RP purposes in my build)

Exploding enemies, sucking the life from opponents, raising the dead...  Those are NORMAL, "non-evil" spell powers?! 

Far worse than any of the 4 Blood Mage powers I think.

[Gilead26]

Blood magic is not inherently evil but one of its more common uses is to manipulate and control the minds of others as such it has been branded "evil" and "forbidden" by the chantry and most common people are deeply afraid of it.

[Flamin Jesus]

Blood is very important in the DA universe, manipulating it is anathema to the majority of people, it's a bit like Cannibalism in the real world I'd say... It may not be inherently evil, but "You just don't do it".

[Wintermist]

I think it's more the fact of how dangerous Blood Magic is, as they so say in the game itself; Imagine what a Blood Mage could do, controlling the minds of kings and people. Or something of the sort, anyhow.

[Forsakerr]

well you did the circle of magi quest so you should know what blood mages can do i guess it s why people dont like them

[Grovermancer]

So basically, it's largely a dogma thing then. Hmm.

EDIT:  I posted this before some of these comments were given; damn slow forum!

Modifié par Grovermancer, 15 novembre 2009 - 06:25 .

[Wintermist]

If I could control your thoughts, I could control you. If I could control the king, I could control the land.

[Forsakerr]

well from looking at it i did nt see any blood mages beeing nice in game they are always evil , so perhaps it s because most of them turn evil so the chantry hunts them before they go bad

[Wintermist]

It could all be a Nietzsche thing, you know. The Blood Mages... They've been hunted for so long that they've become what they've been hunted for all along.

[Rattleface]

Weren't the magisters or something in the Tevinter Imperium blood mages?



If so, considering Ferelden's stance on them, it's not surprising they would outlaw the magic just by that reason alone.

That and it's mind-affecting powers. Really, anyone that can influence someone's thoughts is open to abuse. Outlawing the magic makes sure controlling someone's head doesn't become commonplace.

[W1taker]

Wintermist wrote...

I think it's more the fact of how dangerous Blood Magic is, as they so say in the game itself; Imagine what a Blood Mage could do, controlling the minds of kings and people. Or something of the sort, anyhow.

Look at what loghain did without blood magic

[Gilead26]

Hatred of blood magic is really all driven by the chantry, the magisters of the Tevinter Imperium used it and they killed the Prophetess Andraste who said prior to her death that "Magic is meant to serve man not to rule over him" so obviously a magic that allows you to control the mind of another would be frowned on.



Also the fact that the more powerful blood magic spells involve completely draining the life force of one or more people lends it a very sinister air.

[Wintermist]

W1taker wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

I think it's more the fact of how dangerous Blood Magic is, as they so say in the game itself; Imagine what a Blood Mage could do, controlling the minds of kings and people. Or something of the sort, anyhow.

Look at what loghain did without blood magic

Indeed, and now that I've done so, was there a point in doing it?

[Grovermancer]

Several points:  the "mind control" thing I suppose is a threat.  Didn't know that was exclusive to Blood Mages.  (ie, assumed there were surely analogous powers within 'regular' magic within this universe)

Also, I didn't realize it was Tevinter Blood Mages who caused the "original fall" and the formation of the Darkspawn.  Just assume they were... well, 'regular' overly ambitious Mages.

Still, is Blood Magic inherently evil, or just something 'evilly inclined' Mages are drawn to?

Like the 'Dark Side' in SW actually IS inherently corrupting (as per the canon)...  But is Blood Magic in DA?  Doesn't seem to be.  (also regarding the SW reference, notice Dark Siders use powers observably 'evil' while Lightsiders rarely do, an often cannot)  This doesn't seem to apply to DA; seems like any Mage can do any magic. 

"Good" Mages can suck the life from a man, make him explode, then raise his skeleton and make it fight.  Ridiculous!


As I posted early, the Blood Mage spells are not as 'evil' as many of the 'regular' spells by a long-shot.  Other than the 'suck life from ally' (forget the name), none of the other Blood spells are in any way devious, much less so than many other of the game's 'generic' spells that even a 'Spirit Healer' could use.

Modifié par Grovermancer, 15 novembre 2009 - 06:36 .

[Flamin Jesus]

I think there's also that thing that this entire school, at least from what we've seen in the game, is almost exclusively destructive or controlling, if you look away from combat, every other school has some things that can be used in a nondestructive manner, or in "everyday life", without ill effect, be it healing the sick or freezing part of a lake to cross it, or even summoning an undead servant for non-combat purposes (You know, someone has to clean the windows ), of course such possible civilian uses don't come into play in a CRPG, but in a P&P setting there could be a lot of non-violent things you can do with the majority of the spells, and all of the schools.

Blood boiling, blood control, livesucking? Those are things that simply have no use beyond killing or controlling people, or taking advantage of them in some form, and since they are basically all there is to that school (Aside from the ability to use blood to power spells, which also includes the ability to power really big spells with the lifeforce of hundreds of slaves) I can see why it would raise a few eyebrows if someone spent time acquiring those abilities...

It's a bit like the difference between buying a hunting rifle and buying a rocket launcher.

Edit: Or better, the difference between buying a knife and buying brass knuckles, a knife can be used for a lot of things, among those attacking people, brass knuckles really have no use beyond attacking people.

Modifié par Flamin Jesus, 15 novembre 2009 - 06:41 .

[Wintermist]

Loghain was a threat and he was hunted for it. Blood Mages are also a threat and as such, are being hunted for it. They're performing an illegal art, a very dangerous such, in fact, blood mages in the right places would be even more dangerous than five Loghains. Surely you can grasp the concept of what they would be able to do?

[Grovermancer]

Of course I can see the potential of what Blood Mages COULD do... I guess that's the crux of it; more a fear of the potential than the inherent magic itself.



Though I do like the point that pretty much the ONLY thing Blood Magic can do is offensive destructive stuff, unlike regular magic that largely COULD be used for helpful means if necessary.

[Serogon]

I have a feeling it has to do with how the Tevinter Imperium used it. They literally had groups of slaves follow them around for whenever they needed to cast a big spell. They'd just drain them dry to power it. That kind of thing would probably leave some hatred in people.

[Grovermancer]

Serogon wrote...

I have a feeling it has to do with how the Tevinter Imperium used it. They literally had groups of slaves follow them around for whenever they needed to cast a big spell. They'd just drain them dry to power it. That kind of thing would probably leave some hatred in people.

That sounds exactly like the "Black Numenorian Wizard" (whatever) units in LOTR: ROTWK RTS game! 

[Jersey75639]

The main problem isn't what blood magic can do (besides mind control), the problem is HOW it is accomplished. Regular magic uses your own mana and lyrium; blood magic uses blood, your own or someone else's, and it can potentially be fatal to whoever you are drawing upon.

[SageGaspar]

Grovermancer wrote...

Of course I can see the potential of what Blood Mages COULD do... I guess that's the crux of it; more a fear of the potential than the inherent magic itself.

It felt like blood magic was just amped up regular magic in a lot of ways. I agree part of the reason it's banned is that we're already worried about mages getting too powerful and possessed by demons without blood magic, what exactly is so imperative that they need to do super powered rituals? Maybe there's times when it could be useful for a "good" reason but it's also necessary for a lot of particularly heinous stuff like mass summonings of demons. Seems like a decent precaution for the same reason the templars watch the mages.

There still is the issue of how it's done though, human sacrifice really leads down a lot of bad roads. Just from a purely practical standpoint, if you start sapping life force and in extreme cases killing people to power your magic, you're probably not far off from an army with pitchforks and torches knocking down your tower.

[GhoXen]

Blood Magic is originally taught with temptation by demons, and it is often learnt by making a pact with a demon. All demons are evil. There simply is no exception to that. Evil is in their flesh and blood. They drink evil coffee and eat evil cookies.

[Saurel]

It would be interesting if they touch on this a bit more. I always felt like Wynne and the others in the Circle of Magi knew something about Blood Magic that I didn't.



Surely the methods aren't pretty. But one would think to what extent you use them would matter and shouldn't warrant instant death or tranquility, unless there is something we don't know.

[Saurel]

GhoXen wrote...

Blood Magic is originally taught with temptation by demons, and it is often learnt by making a pact with a demon. All demons are evil. There simply is no exception to that. Evil is in their flesh and blood. They drink evil coffee and eat evil cookies.

The Desire Demons work out at the Evil Gym and eat Evil Protein Bars.

[Cthy]

well blood magic is kinda like standing on a threshold... in itself it isn't evil but your right on that doorstep and taking another step over is pretty easy.



But honestly, all magic is like that to a degree and the hype about blood mages is chantry propaganda.