109 réponses à ce sujet

[IronCladNinja]

its like the church and harry potter, well some churches anyway, or alternatively like the bible and shellfish

[Jersey75639]

wat

[Zilod]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

I think there's also that thing that this entire school, at least from what we've seen in the game, is almost exclusively destructive or controlling, if you look away from combat, every other school has some things that can be used in a nondestructive manner, or in "everyday life", without ill effect, be it healing the sick or freezing part of a lake to cross it, or even summoning an undead servant for non-combat purposes (You know, someone has to clean the windows ), of course such possible civilian uses don't come into play in a CRPG, but in a P&P setting there could be a lot of non-violent things you can do with the majority of the spells, and all of the schools.

Blood boiling, blood control, livesucking? Those are things that simply have no use beyond killing or controlling people, or taking advantage of them in some form, and since they are basically all there is to that school (Aside from the ability to use blood to power spells, which also includes the ability to power really big spells with the lifeforce of hundreds of slaves) I can see why it would raise a few eyebrows if someone spent time acquiring those abilities...

It's a bit like the difference between buying a hunting rifle and buying a rocket launcher.

Edit: Or better, the difference between buying a knife and buying brass knuckles, a knife can be used for a lot of things, among those attacking people, brass knuckles really have no use beyond attacking people.

well is not that entropy is much better... curses, life draining, cloud of deaths, nightmare... in codex is clearly says it have to do with the destructive forces of the world

in game actually is not even true that all bm are so evil... jowan is not evil, he use it to defend himself and the girl he loves, he doesnt kill anyone just flee away, ok later he poisoned the arle but we have also to consider that the "commissioner" of that act just saved his life and is a well known hero... he also try to amend and accept his punishment

there is also a BM in the circle tower who want to expiate and seem to have acted like that in fear


BM have probably 3 things against it..

1) can control the mind of other people... if you are a guy at power, be it a king, a reverend mother a noble and so on... last thing you want is to meet someone that whitout any effort can take control of you and your power

2) is used to summon and control spirits, you offer blood, or better life, to the daemons to force them to do what you want (and of course generally you are not going to sacrifice yourself ) also note that even spirit healer have to do with spirits and is not banned

note that with spirits i intend both good ones and daemons as in the end they are all emotions

3) the mages that caused the fall used it

as i see BM seem an extremely dangerous school of magic for many reasons but not inherently evil, you can have more contacts with daemons who can try to possess or corrupt you and, due to its power is often used by reckless mages, but in the end is just tool as nothing force you to sacrifice lifes, control people or summon daemons

[Arttis]

All it is a dangerous power.

The old tevintir or whatever used the life force of their slaves i think to cast spells and assuming they had many slaves that could go on forever.Also mind control.

If a stranger was in a closed room with you and had a gun...what would you do...its just dangerous.

[IronCladNinja]

basically its just not allowed. though the chantry has a valid reason to forbid because of those tevinter dudes

[Maria Caliban]

There are a number of very good reasons that Blood Magic is more feared than regular magic.

First off, there’s no upper limit to what a blood mage can do. A regular mage has only their mana pool to draw from as well as whatever they can suck out of a bottle of expensive and rare lyrium potions. A group of mages can pool their mana in a ritual, but that’s a volenary act.

A blood mage, however, can draw the life force of others. The Imperium’s greatest magical works and experiments, and one of the reasons it was so hungry for slaves, were performed through the sacrifice of dozens of slaves.
Remember that Thedas isn’t the modern world. No one wants to die, but the average person is far more comfortable with death. What’s the difference between being run through with a blade, starving one winter, catching the plague, or being blown up by a fireball?

But blood magic can also do things that regular magic cannot. Blood magic can strip your will and control your mind. Blood magic can tear your soul from your body and eternally imprison it.

The question of whether blood magic is inherently evil is rather silly. Is cyanide gas inherently evil? Is anthrax? Not at all. But if my neighbor was found with canisters of cyanide in their basement, I’d rather like for them to go to jail.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 15 novembre 2009 - 09:21 .

[Arttis]

I do not remember tearing souls i can only think of the arcane warrior who did it to herself.

[Zack Ross]

No one said they are inherently evil. Its like.. the Dark Side of the Force in Star Wars. Technically, its not really evil, but most of the people who draw upon that side of the force, do so with malicious intent. The same is true of Blood Mages, most of them use the power to inflict suffering upon others and control them. Its more in how you use it, but from what I've seen Blood Mages have the potential for absolute power, and as you know, absolute power corrupts absolutely.



You may start out as a "Good" Blood Mage, hoping to only use your powers for Justice, however you come across some obstacle that will not let you pass by any normal means, or a person who will not yield no matter how silver your tongue is. So the thought creeps into your head, maybe just this once, I can use this power for something... that it never should be used for. But after the one time, you find an excuse to use it for ill purposes again, and then another excuse, until finally you stop making excuses, believing this is the power your meant to have. Most people, even good people, when given power like that find it hard to resist using it for purposes the rest of us would question.

[DKJaigen]

Maria Caliban wrote...

There are a number of very good reasons that Blood Magic is more feared than regular magic.

First off, there’s no upper limit to what a blood mage can do. A regular mage has only their mana pool to draw from as well as whatever they can suck out of a bottle of expensive and rare lyrium potions. A group of mages can pool their mana in a ritual, but that’s a volenary act.

A blood mage, however, can draw the life force of others. The Imperium’s greatest magical works and experiments, and one of the reasons it was so hungry for slaves, were performed through the sacrifice of dozens of slaves.
Remember that Thedas isn’t the modern world. No one wants to die, but the average person is far more comfortable with death. What’s the difference between being run through with a blade, starving one winter, catching the plague, or being blown up by a fireball?

But blood magic can also do things that regular magic cannot. Blood magic can strip your will and control your mind. Blood magic can tear your soul from your body and eternally imprison it.

The question of whether blood magic is inherently evil is rather silly. Is cyanide gas inherently evil? Is anthrax? Not at all. But if my neighbor was found with canisters of cyanide in their basement, I’d rather like for them to go to jail.

Strange anology in the last part. But to be honest if antrax is blood magic then an ak47 is a fireball. both things kill people but its the user that decides if its used for good or evil.

[Maria Caliban]

DKJaigen wrote...

Strange anology in the last part. But to be honest if antrax is blood magic then an ak47 is a fireball. both things kill people but its the user that decides if its used for good or evil.

What are the good uses for anthrax?

However, I agree that there's nothing inherently evil about blood magic. I just think that whether something is inherently evil is different question than whether it should be allowed. There's lots of things that are not inherently evil that civilizations have made illegal.

[Zilod]

blood magic is not just used to do "ebil things"... you can use your own blood to heal your comrade that seem not that a bad thing to do... the comparsion with anthrax is not that fitting



and about to force someone to do what you want... and lets see the person who will not yell no matter what... is it better to kill him or use blood magic to gain control over him for short time and immobilize him?



the second seem way better to me, is sparing a lifes using blood magic going to make me evil?

[Gill Kaiser]

Blood magic attracts the kind of mages who value power over any cost. Once you realise that you can use the lifeforce of others to make yourself more powerful, it's a slippery slope which could lead to the kind of events that occured in the Tevinter Imperium at its height - stuff like mass execution of hundreds of slaves to fuel magical experimentation. Also, blood magic is a demonic discipline, so mages who learn it have been consorting with demons, which is hardly good. Add to that the blood mages' ability to control the minds of others, and I can understand why the Chantry outlaws it.



That said, there's nothing that says that a mage can't practice blood magic without performing any evil acts. If they only use their own life force, or the life force of the willing, then it's just another academic field.

[Arttis]

It use to not be called blood magic but part of regular magic before a troublesome woman came along and ruined everything.

[GhoXen]

Zilod wrote...

blood magic is not just used to do "ebil things"... you can use your own blood to heal your comrade that seem not that a bad thing to do... the comparsion with anthrax is not that fitting

Uh, it's the other way around. You suffer a penalty to healing received while Blood Magic is active, the only exception is draining health from an ally with the potential of killing that ally.

[Nyysjan]

It's no more evil than eating shelfish (wich is abomination unto god and you will go to hell for doing it, according to the bible).



It's just forbidden because it is powerfull, can be learned by a complete twit (like Jowan), and is easily abused (like the circle tower quest, normal mage would have lot of trouble causing that kind of trouble, but blood mage can do it more easily), alsol, the mind control thing is frowned upon, and human sacrifices aspect (not necessary for bloodmagic as such, but it is the easiest and quickest ways to get loads of power for huge spells) does not help.

[Lord Thing]

Maria Caliban wrote...

DKJaigen wrote...

Strange anology in the last part. But to be honest if antrax is blood magic then an ak47 is a fireball. both things kill people but its the user that decides if its used for good or evil.

What are the good uses for anthrax?

However, I agree that there's nothing inherently evil about blood magic. I just think that whether something is inherently evil is different question than whether it should be allowed. There's lots of things that are not inherently evil that civilizations have made illegal.

There's also a lot of other nasty connotations with Blood Magic.  A lot of people would likely relate it to the Tevinter Imperium (as their mageocracy was famous for its Blood Magic) and, in turn, the coming of the darkspawn, as it was these Tevinter Blood Mages that first stepped foot in the Golden City, if you believe the Chantry.

[Agni108]

Its not really the mind control aspect. Ordinary mages can control the minds of others with the spell Walking Nightmare. The problem with blood magic is that it comes from an evil/corrupting source inside the Fade. Its kind of like vampirism, once you get it, then over time your soul will become increasingly corrupted due the "consumption of blood" required to maintain the power.



Consumption of blood to maintain power = Vampirism, whether it is your own blood or someone elses.

[Arttis]

Its just a means to an end.Its not evil it is forbidden...and wrong...from the perpective of those who say it in the game.I do not remember anyone saying it was evil.It is wrong in the sense you are doing something that will hurt yourself and others because of the templars and chantry.Forbidden because it is more powerful then templars and thats all the chantry has to defend itself with.Self preservation is at the top of everyones list.

[dannythefool]

Blood magic is evil because the chantry wants to be the only ones who can control the minds of others. It's like what (insert real world religion 1) thinks of (insert real world religion 2).

Joking aside, it's a tool and as such not evil in itself, but just look at what the blood mages do in the game. I don't want to spoil too much, but even the "friendly and nice" blood mage Jowan ends up doing horrible things. There are no good blood mages in the entire game and if you read the history of the Tevinter imperium, it gets even worse. No wonder nobody likes blood magic. If you want you can play the one good blood mage that heals sick people with his own life force and kills the archdemon, but you'd better not tell anyone about it...

Modifié par dannythefool, 15 novembre 2009 - 10:47 .

[Encard]

 I got the definite impression that blood magic was in some way inherently corrupting.  I don't believe it's been explicitly stated whether that's the case or whether it just tends to be used for evil, though.

[Ashimmu]

I may be a bit off here since I haven't read all of the codex entries, but since blood magic physically weakens the mage, perhaps the mage is then more susceptible to a demon taking control of him or her? Or is that not how it works?

[Katarian]

I thought that Blood Mages were much more vulnerable to becoming abominations. A lot of them learnt it by making a bargain with a Demon, and that I'd assume makes it much easier for that demon to find you and possess you. It seems fairly corrupting reading all the codex entries about it, and having been through the game everyone who uses it isn't exactly trying to help anyone are they.



It's nothing like a Spirit Healer who receives aid from benevolent spirits that have no interest in possessing and controlling hosts.

[KristofCoulson]

It's pretty fatal if i bury my sword in someone. Swords should be banned too!

[Krenmu]

Way I see it...only reason Blood magic is "Dangerous" Or "Evil" is because it cannot be controlled as easily as the other magic can...if you control the lyrium then the other mages are under your thumb..however, Blood Mages simply need blood, and that is quite easy to get, either self sacrifice or from others. While this does have the opportunity to be quite "Evil" it really depends on the context in which it is used..personally I do think its mostly about control however.

[Maria Caliban]

Nyysjan wrote...

It's no more evil than eating shelfish (wich is abomination unto god and you will go to hell for doing it, according to the bible).

Because eating shellfish has been used to enslave an entire continent, eating shellfish involves draining the life force of others, and eating shellfish leads to darkspawn hordes swarming the world.

Ashimmu wrote...

I may be a bit off here since I haven't read all of the codex entries, but since blood magic physically weakens the mage, perhaps the mage is then more susceptible to a demon taking control of him or her? Or is that not how it works?

Demons teach blood magic, and it seems to make people more suseptable to becoming abominations, but I haven't figured out why yet.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 15 novembre 2009 - 11:56 .