93 réponses à ce sujet

[Greybox_Inception]

everyone love batarians, even if the batarians killed them, or performed their famous slipknot tactic, "i'll pay you guys alot of money for this heist, but totally make sure alot of your end up as casualties", batarians.

but all hate shepard in reality, because he's supposed to be captain, even if the guy saved a few lives and all. yup.

[DieHigh2012]

Come on now fellow paragons, we don't support mass murder.

I would agree with drawing them in destroying their fleet, and drawing a line in the sand where any bartarian over that line gets blown to hell.

The other guys in the Terminus Systems would quickly tire of the good old barts if they had to deal with thier slaving exclusively. That's what the bartanian economy runs on right? So kick them out of Citadel space completly they wouldn't last long. Ether they change their ways, or they get destroyed by the other folks in the Terminus systems.

[Greybox_Inception]

GodWood wrote...

Vorcha are adorable

they sure are. they're heroes of the galaxy.
batarian mercenaries or terrorists are better though. they kill large numbers of humans at a time, having the help of other human mercenaries.

[Greybox_Inception]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Come on now fellow paragons, we don't support mass murder.

I would agree with drawing them in destroying their fleet, and drawing a line in the sand where any bartarian over that line gets blown to hell.

The other guys in the Terminus Systems would quickly tire of the good old barts if they had to deal with thier slaving exclusively. That's what the bartanian economy runs on right? So kick them out of Citadel space completly they wouldn't last long. Ether they change their ways, or they get destroyed by the other folks in the Terminus systems.

eh, world war 300 is going to be beyond mass murder. "and guess what, it ain't my fault.", Shepard

[DieHigh2012]

Greybox_Inception wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Come on now fellow paragons, we don't support mass murder.

I would agree with drawing them in destroying their fleet, and drawing a line in the sand where any bartarian over that line gets blown to hell.

The other guys in the Terminus Systems would quickly tire of the good old barts if they had to deal with thier slaving exclusively. That's what the bartanian economy runs on right? So kick them out of Citadel space completly they wouldn't last long. Ether they change their ways, or they get destroyed by the other folks in the Terminus systems.

eh, world war 300 is going to be beyond mass murder. "and guess what, it ain't my fault.", Shepard

Well it would be if Shepard has a hand in the genocideof the bartarian race. Paragon Shepard didn't wan't to kill one Rachni Queen, why would he be ok with killing billions of bartarians?

[CannotCompute]

^ Just the ones that are indoctrinated then.

[Vena_86]

Humanity is an incredible destructive raceto all life it comes in contact with. Why didn't the council decide to wipe out humanity before they become to powerfull and take over (which is what happened)?
Because extinction of a race is among the most severe things that can happen. Noone should lightly concider genocide of that magnitude. Whoever does, does not understand and appreciate life and should not be in a position to command over it.

[armass]

Hey! All you genociders out there... When you get older, you will learn, i hope.

If you are already old... god help you.

[Guanxii]

We only ever hear things from the main council races side of things who are the ones who actively marginalize the 'lesser' species in the name of their own strategic interests and the Batarians weren't having any of it.

All we ever hear is that the Batarian government are paranoid, dispotic, and beligerant but I would put that down as council propaganda with a kernal of truth blown out of proportion to keep other species frightened and under/within their sphere of influence in council space. They don't want their "client states" defecting to the 'lawless' terminus systems.

Lawless is just another word for not paying council taxes. Others might call that independence. The Batarians might argue that they were taking a stand against an invading army backed by hegemonic powers. And they would be right. Batarians refused to be victimised so the council used them for their own political purposes. They are far from the good guys but not everything is black and white.

Edit: In fact WE are the ones who invaded their colonies and took them for ourselves, and the council LET it happen to prove a point (what happens when you break council laws). It shows to me that they hold their client states with utter contempt until proven otherwise. All i'm saying is that the Batarians have every right to be pissed off with the humans and the council races AND you are avocating genocide?

Modifié par Guanxii, 01 mars 2011 - 12:32 .

[Llama11]

Genocide is bad. My Shepard might like the **** Batarians, but if she saw a Batarian child in mortal danger, she's leading a squad to get the little guy to safety.

[Greybox_Inception]

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Greybox_Inception wrote...

DieHigh2012 wrote...

Come on now fellow paragons, we don't support mass murder.

I would agree with drawing them in destroying their fleet, and drawing a line in the sand where any bartarian over that line gets blown to hell.

The other guys in the Terminus Systems would quickly tire of the good old barts if they had to deal with thier slaving exclusively. That's what the bartanian economy runs on right? So kick them out of Citadel space completly they wouldn't last long. Ether they change their ways, or they get destroyed by the other folks in the Terminus systems.

eh, world war 300 is going to be beyond mass murder. "and guess what, it ain't my fault.", Shepard

Well it would be if Shepard has a hand in the genocideof the bartarian race. Paragon Shepard didn't wan't to kill one Rachni Queen, why would he be ok with killing billions of bartarians?

paragon is nothing but horsecrap at times dude. "*shoots at shepard* you have to let me go shepard, and let me terrorize the galaxy some more. it's the right thing to do.", Batarian "you just shot at me and attempted to cause a devastating terrorist event. i'll let you go to gain more paragon points", Paragon Shepard, "I'm obligated for self-defense, you just tried to attack me. we could peacfully talk this out, or get to more dialogue options that may lead to actions, or inactions (blue, red, green options).", Neutral Shepard, "oh hell nah!", Renegade Shepard

"you're a douche bag shepard.", Random NPC, "that's not nice. i am your buddy. i'll take that as a compliment.", Paragon Shepard *earns 14 paragon points*, "hey, i didn't insult you, so why are you trying to insult me?", Neutral Shepard *earns 5 renegade points*, "how dare you call me a douchebag you fracking butthole?!! you're a lamer NPC.", Renegade Shepard *earns 32 Renegade points* ... examples of why the ME2's Reputation system is lame.

Modifié par Greybox_Inception, 01 mars 2011 - 12:51 .

[Greybox_Inception]

Llama11 wrote...

Genocide is bad. My Shepard might like the **** Batarians, but if she saw a Batarian child in mortal danger, she's leading a squad to get the little guy to safety.

what if that batarian child is a terrorist infiltrator who's raised to hate humans? is your fem-shepard retarded or something then? "I know batarians hate humans/humanoids and all, and it's in their culture to grow up hating us. but i must help this future terrorist by any means, even if they one day grow up to lead a attack against humans, probably affecting me too. what are the odds that this batarian child is a infiltrator trained to disable our defenses and i feel the need to help them with their task by ensuring their safety?", Fem-Shep

"thank you fem shep. i'll conquer your planet and steal your ships as thanks for rescueing me. i'll make sure i make your entire species and race suffer. i must bring your species to the brink of exticntion. the batarians will be strong, we'll destroy all humans and take over the galaxy. our geth eggs shall hatch and cause nothing but chaos. Muahahahhaha.", Batarian Child

Modifié par Greybox_Inception, 01 mars 2011 - 12:57 .

[Llama11]

Yeah, she is a wee bit dumb. She is so naive.

[Greybox_Inception]

Llama11 wrote...

Yeah, she is a wee bit dumb. She is so naive.

eh, batarians are crazy.  i rather play as cautious shepard, and not naive shepard.

Modifié par Greybox_Inception, 01 mars 2011 - 01:52 .

[Zelnik]

This is why the council has spectres. A single spectre can easily cause the collapse of the batarian government, maybe even show them a piece of their own medicine by bombing their homeworld.

I play paragon, but I know an evil empire when I see it.

[Confused-Shepard]

Frankly my personal OFFICIAL play-through is a Paragade pretty boy Infiltrator named Commander. I went through the game killing every single Batarian I found including the sick one in Mordin's recruitment mission because I was bigoted as **** against them thanks to my Colonist background. However even he understands that the Batarian Government is an oppressive totalitarian regime and the only people who actually leave the planet are criminals and slavers

Worst of all the Hegemony supports and helps the pirates and slavers. Not to mention slavery is apparently a part of their culture. Hell, these guys make the Romulans from STAR TREK look like Vulcans. The only reason reason Garrus and Tali didn't call him out on it is because every night he wakes up screaming about either Batarians torturing him or a Threswer Maw (Sole Survivor) eating him.

I bet your Batarian Engineer was a real sweetie pie Garrus, maybe even a Gordon Freeman type but I'm sorry that every single Batarian I have met has been a psycho murderer. I made that **** of a Bartender drink poison. Why? Because shooting him would have been too easy.

Modifié par Confused-Shepard, 01 mars 2011 - 02:25 .

[Whatever42]

Paragon shepards might need to face the possibility that Batarians are hard-wired to be evil by human standards. Its no guarantee that every species are just humans with different physical characteristics and can just be reasoned with.

For example, some humans are hard-wired in a way that they are incapable of empathy and just mimic certain behaviours without understanding them. Perhaps Batarians brains are incapable of empathy, except in rare cases, and with their culture the vast majority of Batarians will always be an existential threat to humans, short of serious re-education and control.

Genocide might not be the best option. But nor can you live next door to a pride of man-eating lions. Eventually, it has to come down to you or them. Morality is a luxury that you can't always afford.

[Confused-Shepard]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Paragon shepards might need to face the possibility that Batarians are hard-wired to be evil by human standards. Its no guarantee that every species are just humans with different physical characteristics and can just be reasoned with.

For example, some humans are hard-wired in a way that they are incapable of empathy and just mimic certain behaviours without understanding them. Perhaps Batarians brains are incapable of empathy, except in rare cases, and with their culture the vast majority of Batarians will always be an existential threat to humans, short of serious re-education and control.

Genocide might not be the best option. But nor can you live next door to a pride of man-eating lions. Eventually, it has to come down to you or them. Morality is a luxury that you can't always afford.

Let's glass a few colonies and see how they like it. An Eye For An Eye. A Tooth For A Tooth
Honestly they will either be Reaper shock troops or Reaper cannon fodder. 
Either way, Bye Bye Batarians. 

Hell the Council should say that they will forgive the Batarians if they can kill the Reapers
Either the Batarians are wiped out or are so weakened that a few ships will be able to render them a non-enetity 

[DinoCrisisFan]

I can't tell if the OP is serious or not...

[Whatever42]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

Paragon shepards might need to face the possibility that Batarians are hard-wired to be evil by human standards. Its no guarantee that every species are just humans with different physical characteristics and can just be reasoned with.

For example, some humans are hard-wired in a way that they are incapable of empathy and just mimic certain behaviours without understanding them. Perhaps Batarians brains are incapable of empathy, except in rare cases, and with their culture the vast majority of Batarians will always be an existential threat to humans, short of serious re-education and control.

Genocide might not be the best option. But nor can you live next door to a pride of man-eating lions. Eventually, it has to come down to you or them. Morality is a luxury that you can't always afford.

Let's glass a few colonies and see how they like it. An Eye For An Eye. A Tooth For A Tooth
Honestly they will either be Reaper shock troops or Reaper cannon fodder. 
Either way, Bye Bye Batarians. 

Hell the Council should say that they will forgive the Batarians if they can kill the Reapers
Either the Batarians are wiped out or are so weakened that a few ships will be able to render them a non-enetity 

Batarians would never agree. They don't want forgiveness. They want to control, dominate and enslave. They only appeal to the council in order to manipulate our morality to their own ends. A race that practices brutal slavery and torture doesn't care about cultural values.

Morality is when I agree not to hit you over the head and take your big screen tv if you agree not to hit me over the head and take my car. If I agree to not attack you but you continue to attack me then its not morality, its suicide. It's a excuse for the timid and the weak to not take action. We need to defeat the Reapers and then deal with the Batarians. The council won't so humanity must act on its own.

[Guanxii]

It's a caste system, others might interperate those on the lower rungs as "slaves" but slavery can be abstract, relative and subjective. Are the Drell slaves to the Hanar? Is optional slavery/servitude slavery at all? Are illigal aliens and those on the bottom rungs of our societies subject to slavery by any other name? Back on earth many would view the western mode of capitalism as 'voluntary' wage-slavery for worthless paper: After-all 'freedom' depends on the freedom to choose which is also highly abstract and relative. Are farm animals slaves?

Only Batarians can decide if their working poor are a slave class. Futhermore legallity and morality are also relative and we're talking about Alien cultures here. Just because multiple species share the same values does not mean they are 'right'.

Modifié par Guanxii, 01 mars 2011 - 03:37 .

[Whatever42]

Guanxii wrote...

It's a caste system, others might interperate those on the lower rungs as "slaves" but slavery can be abstract, relative and subjective. Are the Drell slaves to the Hanar? Is optional slavery/servitude slavery at all? Are illigal aliens and those on the bottom rungs of our societies subject to slavery by any other name? Back on earth many would view the western mode of capitalism as 'voluntary' wage-slavery for worthless paper: After-all 'freedom' depends on the freedom to choose which is also highly abstract and relative. Are farm animals slaves?

Only Batarians can decide if their working poor are a slave class. Futhermore legallity and morality are also relative and we're talking about Alien cultures here. Just because multiple species share the same values does not mean they are 'right'.

Ah... cultural relativism. Who are we to say torture and slavery is bad, right? Heck, relativism can justify genocide and war too. It's their culture, after all. We can't judge. Maybe they like being tortured and murdered. It's not our place to judge. After all, we have Walmarts so by some standards we're equally "evil".

However, the biggest problem here is that humans are being forcibly drafted into this caste system. But, hey, maybe they're really enjoying it too. Who are we to judge?

Well, my cultural values demand that Batarians all die. Who are you to judge whether I'm right or wrong? Maybe the Batarians like being exterminated.

[Big I]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...
Paragon shepards might need to face the possibility that Batarians are hard-wired to be evil by human standards. Its no guarantee that every species are just humans with different physical characteristics and can just be reasoned with.

It is equally possible that their problems are social and political in nature as opposed to biological. We know so little about batarian society that we are completely unable to make a valid conclusion based on what we know.


Here's some questions we might want to answer before committing genocide: how long have they practised slavery? How widespread is the institution? Does every batarian own slaves, or want to own them? Khar'shan is divided between different nations, do they all practice slavery? What about the different castes, do they all have the same view on slavery or is it just the elite?


Or how about proportionate response; the krogan did far more harm during the Rebellions than the batarians have ever done, but they weren't eradicated. If you're willing to let that species survive, or the hyper aggresive yahg, why aren't you willing to do the same for batarians?


The pro-genocide camp seems to be basing their positions on the interactions of one law enforcement agent (Shepard) with violent criminals, and on a few propoganda news reports heard on Omega. Even if the worst case scenario is in fact correct, and all batarians everywhere are biologically hardwired for slavery and they all fervently support asteroid drops and slaver attacks on civilian colonies (something that is very unlikely), genocide should not be the first option. I would argue it should never be an option.

[Llama11]

I met one Batarian on Omega that treated my Shepard decently. No, this wasn't the Batarian that tried to poison Shepard, this was a Batarian running a store elsewhere on Omega.

I don't want to justify genocide, because how does that make us? "Oh, we're the civilized race who believes everyone, regardless of race, deserves equal rights and liberty...except for the Batarians who must be exterminated."

The Krogans did more damage than the Batarians, yet if someone said: "We should be allowed to kill off the Krogans once and for all", people would be going "Nooooo! Wrex! Grunt! Don't hurt mah Krogan!!"

[darkiddd]

The Council does nothing against the batarians because they want to preserve peace at any cost, they remind me of the league of nations and their incapability to prevent WW2 or to understand that war is inevitable and the sooner you do it the better will be in long term. This is also the reason why they don't recognize the reaper existence and their imminent attack, they live in their self fantasy world where everything is as should be. The Council doesn't want any kind of war, so they will try to negociate with the batarians until the very last moment, they will just watch how the humans and the batarians fight against each other and will hinder the requests of help from the alliance until they finally see the reapers and then you will have to convince them to join you in ME3.