93 réponses à ce sujet

[Whatever42]

Shepard potentially has extensive experience with Batarians. But I'm not pro-genocide. I'm pro-kick them in the head until they are no longer a threat to humanity. I am very anti-genocide, unless necessary, which is probably not required. Worst case scenario, we can reduce their number sufficiently to control them.

Now if Batarians really are just humans with additional eyes then I'm ok with also sponsoring Batarian revolt and if their society evolves to a state where it is not an threat to humanity then they can live in peace.

If they cannot achieve that state, however, then kill em all until they're not longer a threat. If that means that the last few Batarians only survive in zoos then so be it.

[LackingSaint]

Because it's an issue of culture, not the race itself. Hey remember that one Batarian ship engineer on Archangel's Recruitment mission? He seemed perfectly nice, sure he was fighting on the wrong side but he was never outwardly rude to you despite you being a human. Same goes for the Batarian you meet when you land at Archangel's part of town; he never even acts like your race is an issue, and just gives you the facts on the situation.

The issue is that Batarians that live in Batarian cultures usually end up hating humans and other races; however, when they live a life actively dealing with those races they can be perfectly fine, and as we're learning in the game the races are becoming more and more embroiled in eachother.

And of course, calling full-scale war on an entire race of warriors and pirates despite no real instigation seems like a hella brash move, and as we all know, the Council AIN'T ABOUT BEING BRASH

[Whatever42]

LackingSaint wrote...

Because it's an issue of culture, not the race itself.

We don't know that for sure. Maybe "nice" Batarians are as rare as human pyschopaths. But its probably true, every race is generally "human" in the ME universe, they just look funny.

However, as we know from our own history, people can get locked into social constructs that drive them towards evil ends and nothing more than the complete destruction of that society can redeem them. At the very least, this seems true of the Batarians.

[LackingSaint]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

LackingSaint wrote...

Because it's an issue of culture, not the race itself.

We don't know that for sure. Maybe "nice" Batarians are as rare as human pyschopaths. But its probably true, every race is generally "human" in the ME universe, they just look funny.

However, as we know from our own history, people can get locked into social constructs that drive them towards evil ends and nothing more than the complete destruction of that society can redeem them. At the very least, this seems true of the Batarians.

But doesn't just the fact that there are some kind Batarians exist prove that they're a species worth not butchering? It means they're not an inherently evil species, and I mean, Humans aren't inherently good either, hell look at something like the Krogan, those guys REALLY aren't a 'kind' species and i'm sure we don't want to kill them for their barbarian, strength-based culture. The Turians are also a military race, they just happen to be more defensive than offensive in how they operate.

[Jimbe2693]

Genocide is pretty extreme, the batarians aren't all bad. They just need a cultural renaissance is all.

I support a batarian squadmate in ME3.

[Whatever42]

LackingSaint wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

LackingSaint wrote...

Because it's an issue of culture, not the race itself.

We don't know that for sure. Maybe "nice" Batarians are as rare as human pyschopaths. But its probably true, every race is generally "human" in the ME universe, they just look funny.

However, as we know from our own history, people can get locked into social constructs that drive them towards evil ends and nothing more than the complete destruction of that society can redeem them. At the very least, this seems true of the Batarians.

But doesn't just the fact that there are some kind Batarians exist prove that they're a species worth not butchering? It means they're not an inherently evil species, and I mean, Humans aren't inherently good either, hell look at something like the Krogan, those guys REALLY aren't a 'kind' species and i'm sure we don't want to kill them for their barbarian, strength-based culture. The Turians are also a military race, they just happen to be more defensive than offensive in how they operate.

The Council introduced a devestating genetic disease that so limited Krogan births that if they wage any kind of large scale war that they would be pushed into extinction.

But how do the Batarians prove that they are a species not worth butchering? They stop attacks against all settlements, free all slaves, and punish their war criminals harshly. I'm anti-genocide too. As I said, though, we need to hammer the Batarians until they behave. If the Batarians really are cuddly and nice and just need a hug then it should happen quickly. If their pyschology is too alien and does not allow peaceful coexistance then we pull a Krogan on them and reduce their numbers until we can control them.

The Council is content to use humanity as their catspaws in this situation, almost like they use the Spectres. They encourage human settlment that brings them into conflict with the Batarians but then refuse all support. They've proven that they are not above ruthless tactics themselves, they're just going to let humanity do the dirty work.

[Spectreshadow]

All I am gonna say is if the Batarian homeworld comes under Reaper attack and I get the option to help them I will find a side quest or two to do.

[nevar00]

Because genocide is bad, and not all Batarians are.

[vader da slayer]

GodWood wrote...
I find it hard to believe that 'non-slavers' would be a minority in batarian society and no where in game does it say they are.

on omega there's a news report on the pa system that talks about the slave trade being a crucial part of the Batarian caste system. so yes a non slaver would be either a) someone with very little wealth or an exception.

[Exiled Eagle]

If Bioware give me the option to screw over the Batarians in any possible way in Arrival or ME3, I'll do it in a heartbeat. Preferably, I would cripple their species so badly that they're no better than vorcha or varren.

[Xivai]

Exiled Eagle wrote...

If Bioware give me the option to screw over the Batarians in any possible way in Arrival or ME3, I'll do it in a heartbeat. Preferably, I would cripple their species so badly that they're no better than vorcha or varren.

Goodbye innocent batarian dock workers, nurses, doctors, construction workers, women, men, children, political leaders, activits, goths, emo's, Batarian porn acters, mad scientis, good scientists, arms manufactuerers, schools, principles, universitys, research facilities, goverment paper pushers, corporate manucaturers, batarian equivallent of McD's, fast food, resturaunt, ecosystems we've never seen, all the billions of animals, insects, fish, birds, and any other type of animal we might not have a classification for, environmentalists, liberals, conservatives, neutrals, batarian monks, all of the facitons that are contesting, enslaved populations under their control, road maitinence workers, clerks, fashion designers, sexxy time models (both genders), all of their art, science, history, discoveries, space stations, infastructure, all the good batarians, the bas ones, the ones who dont care, the ones out for vengeance, try to make a living, or just try and get by with their lifes, pirates, musicians, artists, and well anything else I can think of really.

Gone.

[wrexfan32hanalei]

it's at times like this that I ask myself, what would robert heinlein do? I'm guessing kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out.

[Ivers0803]

I have the strangest feeling there was a war in human history that involved the genocide of an "evil" race of people.

[archurban]

Exiled Eagle wrote...

If Bioware give me the option to screw over the Batarians in any possible way in Arrival or ME3, I'll do it in a heartbeat. Preferably, I would cripple their species so badly that they're no better than vorcha or varren.

why do you hate them so much? you racist?  I want the same thing to human. human is virus which spread all over the place. the first thing human should be eradicated clearly. you don't realize because you are human.

[Whatever42]

So much moral relativism going on here. Apparently hating a brutal race of slavers is now equivilant to hating any old group of people.

[Llama11]

The Ancient Romans were just as brutal as the Batarians. Does that mean we should go back in time and exterminate them?

[wizardryforever]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

So much moral relativism going on here. Apparently hating a brutal race of slavers is now equivilant to hating any old group of people.

I think it's because of the belief that all Batarians are slave-trading, human hating, puppy kicking bastards, despite their being no evidence to support this.

Remember: Most slavers are Batarians /= Most Batarians are slavers.

[AdmiralCheez]

Llama11 wrote...

The Ancient Romans were just as brutal as the Batarians. Does that mean we should go back in time and exterminate them?

Ohhhhhh snap.

Personally, I like the bastards.  They're such douchebags, it's entertaining.

And yeah, I agree with wizardryforever--you'd be all fool to think they're all slaving, racist jerks that don't shower but for once a month.

[Whatever42]

Llama11 wrote...

The Ancient Romans were just as brutal as the Batarians. Does that mean we should go back in time and exterminate them?

Roman society was incredibly brutal. If I was a neighbor of Rome who was capable of it, I would reduce Rome to rubble, absolutely. Actually, I think they did just that. And the world was a better place for it.

Destroying the Batarians isn't about punishment. It's about self-defense.

[Whatever42]

wizardryforever wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

So much moral relativism going on here. Apparently hating a brutal race of slavers is now equivilant to hating any old group of people.

I think it's because of the belief that all Batarians are slave-trading, human hating, puppy kicking bastards, despite their being no evidence to support this.

Remember: Most slavers are Batarians /= Most Batarians are slavers.

Except that their government aggressively support slaving. This isn't some random side activity. Go read the planet descriptions in Batarian controlled sectors. Batarian society is evil.

[wizardryforever]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

So much moral relativism going on here. Apparently hating a brutal race of slavers is now equivilant to hating any old group of people.

I think it's because of the belief that all Batarians are slave-trading, human hating, puppy kicking bastards, despite their being no evidence to support this.

Remember: Most slavers are Batarians /= Most Batarians are slavers.

Except that their government aggressively support slaving. This isn't some random side activity. Go read the planet descriptions in Batarian controlled sectors. Batarian society is evil.

Well the government is probably not the same as the people.  Plenty of people disagree (even violently) with their governments.  It seems like jumping the gun to assume that the government has the support of the majority of the Batarian people.  Maybe they do, but until we know for sure, it isn't really fair to condemn the entire race for the actions of the most visible.

The Hegemony could even be a type of aristocratic oligarchy, that controls the population from the top down with propaganda and force.  Given the strict caste system, this is even likely. 

[Whatever42]

wizardryforever wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

So much moral relativism going on here. Apparently hating a brutal race of slavers is now equivilant to hating any old group of people.

I think it's because of the belief that all Batarians are slave-trading, human hating, puppy kicking bastards, despite their being no evidence to support this.

Remember: Most slavers are Batarians /= Most Batarians are slavers.

Except that their government aggressively support slaving. This isn't some random side activity. Go read the planet descriptions in Batarian controlled sectors. Batarian society is evil.

Well the government is probably not the same as the people.  Plenty of people disagree (even violently) with their governments.  It seems like jumping the gun to assume that the government has the support of the majority of the Batarian people.  Maybe they do, but until we know for sure, it isn't really fair to condemn the entire race for the actions of the most visible.

The Hegemony could even be a type of aristocratic oligarchy, that controls the population from the top down with propaganda and force.  Given the strict caste system, this is even likely. 

I'm not advocating genocide. I'm advocating war. Like the analogy above, if we compare Batarians to ancient Imperial Roman society (the nicest possible comparison), you simply can't selectively wage war against a few, espcially against a state so powerful and threatening. Rome was rotten to the core. You have to wipe out the whole civilization; that is the only way to remove them as an existential threat to humanity.

But that's assuming Batarians are just like us. They are aliens. It is possible, for example, that Batarians lack completely in empthy (except a few outliers) and will always be a threat to humanity. The large majority of Batarians Shepard has met are completely evil scum, after all, not just a few.  In that case, we might have to go further.

Fortunately, when TIM takes over, humanity will take care of business.

[armass]

Only thing TIM gets is a cell or a bullet to the head if I have anything to do with it.

[Xivai]

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...

Whatever666343431431654324 wrote...

So much moral relativism going on here. Apparently hating a brutal race of slavers is now equivilant to hating any old group of people.

I think it's because of the belief that all Batarians are slave-trading, human hating, puppy kicking bastards, despite their being no evidence to support this.

Remember: Most slavers are Batarians /= Most Batarians are slavers.

Except that their government aggressively support slaving. This isn't some random side activity. Go read the planet descriptions in Batarian controlled sectors. Batarian society is evil.

Well the government is probably not the same as the people.  Plenty of people disagree (even violently) with their governments.  It seems like jumping the gun to assume that the government has the support of the majority of the Batarian people.  Maybe they do, but until we know for sure, it isn't really fair to condemn the entire race for the actions of the most visible.

The Hegemony could even be a type of aristocratic oligarchy, that controls the population from the top down with propaganda and force.  Given the strict caste system, this is even likely. 

I'm not advocating genocide. I'm advocating war. Like the analogy above, if we compare Batarians to ancient Imperial Roman society (the nicest possible comparison), you simply can't selectively wage war against a few, espcially against a state so powerful and threatening. Rome was rotten to the core. You have to wipe out the whole civilization; that is the only way to remove them as an existential threat to humanity.

But that's assuming Batarians are just like us. They are aliens. It is possible, for example, that Batarians lack completely in empthy (except a few outliers) and will always be a threat to humanity. The large majority of Batarians Shepard has met are completely evil scum, after all, not just a few.  In that case, we might have to go further.

Fortunately, when TIM takes over, humanity will take care of business.

What was that? War on Terror? Selectively waging war on people? I think you just got your oh snap. You were falsely using a different time period and way or waging a war, trying to compare it to modern times where the tactics of war have changed. Now go back to shadows. Here have some Gandalf.

Modifié par Xivai, 02 mars 2011 - 04:46 .