84 réponses à ce sujet

[Martagin]

While I've enjoyed all of biowares games/dlc's/expansions. It’s the idea of the user generated content springing up that sold me on DA:O. I like to think of the toolset as the unofficial expansion of DA:O. Regardless of what Bioware puts out, they've done us a huge boon here as it is :-)

[Krenmu]

And one thing regarding the DLC building on other DLC...you may in fact artificially lower your Market, sure..but you are gearing it towards a community that has a proven track record for purchasing..that would essentially reward those who have bought other DLC..and encourage others to buy all of it, while you will have those that will not see it that way and get angry and throw a hissy fit about it.

[GreenSoda]

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Indeed, one of the biggest weaknesses of small DLC, you either have to invest time to make it work both with and without other DLC, or you have to ignore other DLC alltogether.

...amongst other things. One thing that really bothers me about most small/medium sized DLC is the fact that the content added is often so little that the devs don't bother with re-hiring the voice actors of your companions. The result is that no one in your party mentions the new quest and has no comment on what you should do.

It is as if that quest doesn't exist in their universe.

Shale DLC and WK thankfully don't suffer from this problem, but that is due to their special status (both were planned long before the game shipped, so all the dialogue could be recorded along with the content of the main game).

...I fear this won't be the case with upcoming DLC.

Sigh. Mute companions

Modifié par GreenSoda, 15 novembre 2009 - 12:15 .

[Flamin Jesus]

Krenmu wrote...

while you will have those that will not see it that way and get angry and throw a hissy fit about it.

Including me. Even though I plan on buying all future content as long as it's adequately priced. I think forcing people to buy 4 products if they only really want one is an insidious and consumer-hostile marketing tactic.

[DM Veil]

GreenSoda wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

Indeed, one of the biggest weaknesses of small DLC, you either have to invest time to make it work both with and without other DLC, or you have to ignore other DLC alltogether.

...amongst other things. One thing that really bothers me about most small/medium sized DLC is the fact that the content added is often so little that the devs don't bother with re-hiring the voice actors of your companions. The result is that no one in your party mentions the new quest and has no comment on what you should do.

It is as if that quest doesn't exist in their universe.

Shale DLC and WK thankfully don't suffer from this problem, but that is due to their special status (both were planned long before the game shipped, so all the dialogue could be recorded along with the content of the main game).

...I fear this won't be the case with upcoming DLC.

Sigh. Mute companions

So very true, and quite sad really. Smaller projects just get smaller budgets and unless all your voice actors are inhouse and readily available for small adventures you probably won't get to hear much in the way of conversation. Heck even full expansions usually see less voiceovers than the original game.

[Tankenminnet]

The Shale DLC has an... okay price, I guess. Wardens Keep was a huge disappointment though. I guess it is how you see things? 15 bucks is like 25% of the full price of the game and for that you get an additional companion. If you had to pay that kind of money for every compaion, you wouldn't do it, I assume- but on the other hand it's a lot of work for devs to create dialogue and **** for him, integrate him into the storyline and all that, so 5$ isn't enough to cover the expenses.



If Wardens Keep had been 3x the length I might've reconsidered its worth, but now it's basically 4-5 fights and the DLC throws super badass armor your way just like that. Some people appreciate armor and stuff, but I bought it solely because of the story experience... and it would seem those are hard to deliver in small doses.



Not to mention the disgusting planning that was put into Dragon Age and Wardens Keep- OH HO HO, LIMITED INVENTORY AND THE ONLY BANK IS IN A DLC! WHATCHOO GONNA DO NOW, PLAYER? YOU GOTTA BUY IT! AERHAEAHEHRHAR!

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

If they have pre-planned the rest of the DLC in the next two years, perhaps they have already had the extra stuff recorded, it just isn't going to be added till the DLC stuff is created just like with the current DLC



Course, I doubt we'll probably have another 'Shale' type character where a personal quest is incorporated into the areas outside of the DLC ones, then again maybe we will.



As for the whole issue of DLC building on other DLC, look after the pennies/cents and the pounds/dollars look after themselves I forgot to state that I imagine if they did an add-on to the WK DLC it will be smaller than WK and thus cheaper and possibly a special price if you purchase both at once if you not got WK already.

[MrGOH]

Tankenminnet wrote...

The Shale DLC has an... okay price, I guess. Wardens Keep was a huge disappointment though. I guess it is how you see things? 15 bucks is like 25% of the full price of the game and for that you get an additional companion. If you had to pay that kind of money for every compaion, you wouldn't do it, I assume- but on the other hand it's a lot of work for devs to create dialogue and **** for him, integrate him into the storyline and all that, so 5$ isn't enough to cover the expenses.

If Wardens Keep had been 3x the length I might've reconsidered its worth, but now it's basically 4-5 fights and the DLC throws super badass armor your way just like that. Some people appreciate armor and stuff, but I bought it solely because of the story experience... and it would seem those are hard to deliver in small doses.

Not to mention the disgusting planning that was put into Dragon Age and Wardens Keep- OH HO HO, LIMITED INVENTORY AND THE ONLY BANK IS IN A DLC! WHATCHOO GONNA DO NOW, PLAYER? YOU GOTTA BUY IT! AERHAEAHEHRHAR!

WK was $7, not $15. As has been discussed on other threads, that's roughly the cost of a cheapish meal. Not a whole lot of money.

There has already been a (dev made) mod released adding camp storage to the, well, party camp. There are a few issues with it, but it sounds like it works and you won't lose your items (though there are a few times when it may not show up at the camp if you didn't select to travel there from the map screen...)

[CastorKrieg]

Warden's Keep should be $5. I would love future expansions to follow this format: unique adventure, new codex entries, 1-2 hours. Expansions are great as well.



I would be afraid of something else regarding DLC. Taking ME as an example - 2 years and 2 short DLCs (2nd of which was crap, sorry Bioware, but that's the truth). I really hope you got something more planned. Let's hear it, I would love some DLC for Christmas.

[Evilsod]

Shale was indeed a huge task, giving him lots of additional chat and so forth with the entire party along with his own quest. Then again personally i see TSP as part of the default game... you don't add a new party in a DLC thats done before release if it didn't belong in the game anyway.



As for Wardens Keep, no. Its not worth that price at all. If it wasn't there Warden Commander Armour wouldn't have existed so we'd not miss it which is about the only thing worth considering from it. Its a nice little story and sidequest but theres barely a couple of hours of content in it and after that you more or less forget it.



Its like comparing Operation Anchorage to Point Lookout on Fallout3. OA was a rather linear simulation, albeit fun while doing it, but it was only there to drag out getting your gear. PL was a decently sized area with new enemies, items, sidequests and a main questline. Theres just no comparison. None of this 'Horse Armour' crap from Oblivion either. If you can't sit down and think what its going to bring to the game then don't bother doing it.

[LastMurder]

The Shale DLC was totally worth it. A new character to play the game with? Come on! That's just pure awesome.



The other one was pretty crappy though. Some blood magic and some fancy sword was all there was to it. The story really felt weak as ****.

[Drivt]

I was a little dissapointed in Wardens Keep seeing as I did it after Stone Prisoner (which I was actually happy with) but even so Wardens Keep is more than just the ~45 min quest.

You can play through it in different ways by making different choices, (some even change the fights) warden armor set, (the mage drops some nice blood mage gear too) 1h Sword from side quest, 1h or 2h sword (Starforge) which requires a random encounter (comes with the DLC) and the weaponsmith outside the keep, 2 new spells/talents for every class (mage one is pretty overpowered) and lore/codex entries.

There isnt much on the pure content side of things but its £6/$7 (or free for some) for a bit extra content and extra stuff that can be used throughout the game.

Shale is probably one of the best characters in the game and comes with two new areas, the actual quest that can also be done differently, loads of dialogue and a side quest that is in an area of its own that you cant even go to without the DLC. (Cadash Thaig)

This is without even mentioning that you're likely to play through the game, along with the DLC more than once.

I hope the future DLC will be more like Stone Prisoner than Wardens Keep, doesnt have to add a new character but Prisoner adds a nice amount of content if you also do Shale's personal quest.

[Quaxo]

Actually, I think this whole DLC thing is rubbish. The amount of money they're charging compared to what you get for your money just doesn't balance out. On the back of my DA box, it says 'The Stone Prisoner' is "a $15 value". $15 for another character, a few funny lines and a couple of quests? Too much. He should have been included as part of the game as should have 'Warden's Keep', or they should have been offered as free downloads much like the sadly short-lived Mass Effect DLC was.



Think of the "value" they claim for these things. $50 for the game, $21 in additional content.... $71 for everything? Ridiculous. You're talking 42% of the price of DA:O itself for the addition of maybe 10% more content (maybe less than that even)? It's just not worth it. Fortunately, Shale was free (as he should have been), but I won't now or ever pay for DLC from EA or Bioware unless they offer some kind of huge expansion to the game or a price that more accurately reflects what you're getting.

[Morte]

What I'd most like is substantial expansions with 20 hours of play (more welcome), offering some real heft to the story plus new insight into the setting. I don't mind if they're set after the end of DAO with the existing hero, or they're in some other time/place with a new character, just so long as they're good.



I'm not really interested in another "Warden's Keep", there's not enough meat on it to justify going back to the game. Stuff on the "Mysteries of Westgate" and "Wyvern Crown of Cormyr" scale is worth making a character, or reverting to a DAO save if it's integrated. But what I really want is the new "Hordes of the Underdark".

[rhagz]

David Gaider wrote...

As for the $7 for Warden's Keep, I'd say that's a fair price for a decent-sized adventure. Anything larger than that and you're talking expansion -- which is certainly possible, DLC or no DLC. No doubt there could be smaller stuff made available as well, and all of it will be priced accordingly I'm sure. Whether or not you think expansions or DLC content are worth the cost is, I imagine, up to you as always.

So anything that lasts 2 hours is an expansion? 

Seriously, I liked the DLC.. the quality was certainly there but the quantity was.. not.

Someone else mentioned Fallout 3 DLC and I think that's a fair comparison. Each of those 5 DLC last 4-5 hours, some maybe a tad less, some more. Some even offer replayability, ample exploration and choices/consequences. They are also 10 bucks, so about the same price really.

Warden's Keep lasts about 45 minutes to an hour. You get a nice choice and all, but the second trip is completed quite quickly.

I don't see how there could be anything smaller and be expected to sell at a fair price. I thought horse armor was silly, but it was cheap and really the first of it's kind but everything since has been a cut above.. please don't go down the 'buy a set of armor for $2.99!' route. 

Look to your peers at Bethesda and their latest offerings at what DLC for a game like this should be.

Modifié par rhagz, 15 novembre 2009 - 05:10 .

[Reiella]

David Gaider wrote...

I'll point out that the Stone Prisoner is much, much more than the simple quest you have to get Shale. It included all of Shale's unique abilities, party banter as well as its personal quest which comes later. Integrating Shale seamlessly into the entire game was a huge task -- well worth the price (if you didn't buy the game new and get it for free).

As for the $7 for Warden's Keep, I'd say that's a fair price for a decent-sized adventure. Anything larger than that and you're talking expansion -- which is certainly possible, DLC or no DLC. No doubt there could be smaller stuff made available as well, and all of it will be priced accordingly I'm sure. Whether or not you think expansions or DLC content are worth the cost is, I imagine, up to you as always.

For Warden's Keep?  Any larger would be an expansion?

I dunno, might just be me, but your Improved Fights free mods for Throne of Bhaal felt more in depth.  Now admittantly, you didn't have to do new art or voice acting [which does add quite a bit of cost, I understand], but in terms of content, eh.  And it was done on your own time.

Kinda like the camp case mod from another employee.

[bblasphemous]

To be honest, I'm probably not going to bother with any DLC that just shoehorns more stuff into the main campaign. If there were mini campaigns that show the events in the game from a different point of view somehow I'd be more interested, but in todays age of 'everything must be voice acted' stuff like that gets a bit expensive to do.

[MassEffect762]

^ They could just add subtitles when your campanions feel like speaking, I wouldn't  mind if the DLC was still well designed/scripted well.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 15 novembre 2009 - 08:31 .

[Pheace]

Tassiaw wrote...

Wintermist wrote...

People complain about EA so much it's starting to become a chant I hear every time I turn my computer on. No one can explain why, but since everyone is saying it, everyone will keep thinking it.

EA is much improved these days. In the old days, the EA hate was well-deserved, but not so much anymore. People are too stubborn to see that EA isn't what it used to be.

Please don't say that >.<. If they have DLC available right @ release they should have put it in the game to begin with in my opinion. The only reason I'm not nerdraging about it right now is because I got it all in the package deal on steam but I still don't agree at all with the idea of 'seperate' content for a game at the moment it releases because that's just a clear intent of excluding content from release to ask more money for it.

[Reiella]

Pheace wrote...

Please don't say that >.<. If they have DLC available right @ release they should have put it in the game to begin with in my opinion. The only reason I'm not nerdraging about it right now is because I got it all in the package deal on steam but I still don't agree at all with the idea of 'seperate' content for a game at the moment it releases because that's just a clear intent of excluding content from release to ask more money for it.

Just consider, without the DLC at all, would you have been satisfied with the content in the game as it was available and at the price point.  If not, then you have a good point against the base game, independant of additional potential content.

Although if you do wish to nerdrage against it, I'd suggest doing so with your wallet, and not buying the version of the game which costs more solely for the additional content.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Bioware said it's going to work on DLCs for 2 years. Does that mean they will start producing a sequel (if there is one) only after those 2 years??

[Raxtoren]

David Gaider wrote...

I'll point out that the Stone Prisoner is much, much more than the simple quest you have to get Shale. It included all of Shale's unique abilities, party banter as well as its personal quest which comes later. Integrating Shale seamlessly into the entire game was a huge task -- well worth the price (if you didn't buy the game new and get it for free).
.

thats strange...
how can morrigan have dialoge with shale, when she (Claudia Black ) worked with uncharted 2 close at launch?
kind of feels like you already done Shale for a long time ago and just cut that content out before release...

Modifié par Raxtoren, 15 novembre 2009 - 10:29 .

[MassEffect762]

I have a DLC suggestion, sell us comlete armor sets we might have missed due to bugs or by mistake.



I need those Acient Elven boots.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

mrmike_1949 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

I'll point out that the Stone Prisoner is much, much more than the simple quest you have to get Shale. It included all of Shale's unique abilities, party banter as well as its personal quest which comes later. Integrating Shale seamlessly into the entire game was a huge task -- well worth the price (if you didn't buy the game new and get it for free).

As for the $7 for Warden's Keep, I'd say that's a fair price for a decent-sized adventure. Anything larger than that and you're talking expansion -- which is certainly possible, DLC or no DLC. No doubt there could be smaller stuff made available as well, and all of it will be priced accordingly I'm sure. Whether or not you think expansions or DLC content are worth the cost is, I imagine, up to you as always.

Since the entire game sells for ~ $50, RETAIL, then $7 worth of content should give 15%of  the gameplay of the full game  ($7/$50 = ~ 15%).

AT LEAST! Since the $50 retail likely nets EA $25. Say the game gives an estimated 100 hours of play time for $50 - then any add-on content should approach that value

Regarding Shale -$7 for adding Shale is too much money, I would NOT do it. Since it came with the game for free, OK.

I'm really sceptical about how much value we'll be getting for the money with this DLC

Mike K:?

There's a high markup on DLC, what else is new.

Besides, gameplay hours doesn't directly translate to monetary value: then the base game would be like $200.

[Quaxo]

Pheace wrote...
Please don't say that >.<. If they have DLC available right @ release they should have put it in the game to begin with in my opinion. The only reason I'm not nerdraging about it right now is because I got it all in the package deal on steam but I still don't agree at all with the idea of 'seperate' content for a game at the moment it releases because that's just a clear intent of excluding content from release to ask more money for it.

Exactly how I feel about it. Just sounds like they're trying to milk their customers for everything they can.