706 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

AlexXIV wrote...

I honestly doubt Varric described Hawke's look in detail. And neither do I believe that this is what Cassandra is most curious about.

Cassandra is supposed to be desperately looking for Hawke. Varric claims he doesn't know where Hawke is. With this setup, the looks of Hawke should be the first subject of detailed inquiry, if just so she can then pass this info to her people so they actually know what the person they're looking for looks like.

[AlexXIV]

tmp7704 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I honestly doubt Varric described Hawke's look in detail. And neither do I believe that this is what Cassandra is most curious about.

Cassandra is supposed to be desperately looking for Hawke. Varric claims he doesn't know where Hawke is. With this setup, the looks of Hawke should be the first subject of detailed inquiry, if just so she can then pass this info to her people so they actually know what the person they're looking for looks like.

Then the story should probably have started with character creation.

[Huntress]

Sarielle wrote...

Eveangaline wrote...

Considering some of the achievments seem to imply you can become the ruler of kirkwall, it seems a bit odd that people in kirkwall wouldn't know what you looked like. Not just odd, preeety much impossible.

People living there, maybe. Cassandra, who is not from Kirkwall...not nearly as likely.

Cassandra asked the people living in there, thats how she found the dwarf:blink:

Not one ever saw the champion before? they all went to bed before the champion came to town 

[Huntress]

AlexXIV wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I honestly doubt Varric described Hawke's look in detail. And neither do I believe that this is what Cassandra is most curious about.

Cassandra is supposed to be desperately looking for Hawke. Varric claims he doesn't know where Hawke is. With this setup, the looks of Hawke should be the first subject of detailed inquiry, if just so she can then pass this info to her people so they actually know what the person they're looking for looks like.

Then the story should probably have started with character creation.

Yes.

[Critical Miss]

AlexXIV wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I honestly doubt Varric described Hawke's look in detail. And neither do I believe that this is what Cassandra is most curious about.

Cassandra is supposed to be desperately looking for Hawke. Varric claims he doesn't know where Hawke is. With this setup, the looks of Hawke should be the first subject of detailed inquiry, if just so she can then pass this info to her people so they actually know what the person they're looking for looks like.

Then the story should probably have started with character creation.

Varric is playing with Cassandra, it seems. He doesn't act the type to spill it all out at the drop of a hat.

[Emyer]

Critical Miss wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I honestly doubt Varric described Hawke's look in detail. And neither do I believe that this is what Cassandra is most curious about.

Cassandra is supposed to be desperately looking for Hawke. Varric claims he doesn't know where Hawke is. With this setup, the looks of Hawke should be the first subject of detailed inquiry, if just so she can then pass this info to her people so they actually know what the person they're looking for looks like.

Then the story should probably have started with character creation.

Varric is playing with Cassandra, it seems. He doesn't act the type to spill it all out at the drop of a hat.

... unless you play with default face, then he did spill it out the second he started talking

[AlexXIV]

Critical Miss wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I honestly doubt Varric described Hawke's look in detail. And neither do I believe that this is what Cassandra is most curious about.

Cassandra is supposed to be desperately looking for Hawke. Varric claims he doesn't know where Hawke is. With this setup, the looks of Hawke should be the first subject of detailed inquiry, if just so she can then pass this info to her people so they actually know what the person they're looking for looks like.

Then the story should probably have started with character creation.

Varric is playing with Cassandra, it seems. He doesn't act the type to spill it all out at the drop of a hat.

Well she calls Boolsh*t when they killed the Ogre, but up to that point she seemed to accept that Varric's description of Hawke was totally off. Unless she had no clue about that, and why would Varric then tell the truth if she didn't notice it.

[Ryzaki]

Tamyn wrote...

Alodar wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

The way we've chosen to do character creation in Dragon Age II is a little different than what you may be used to, but I think it works fine. Try it out and see what you think of it.

Tried it -- hated it.


I don't know what it buys you really.
Folks who want to jump right into the action in games just hit default, default and start.
So the only thing gained by this method is saving two button clicks for those who want to start the action.
Those who don't are force to play 5 minutes with not their character.


If you wanted to hide the numbers until later, then put up the face creation screen first, do the exaggerated scene and then put up the stat screens.
That would have gotten folks right into the game without forcing them to play 5 minutes with not their character.

I'm a huge BioWare supporter and am really enjoying a lot of the changes, just not this one.


Alodar

This.

Thirded. Really there's a reason for the Quick Play button.

And good lord. I already had to reload 4 times to get my face right using the CC. Just like ME2. <_< 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 01 mars 2011 - 11:15 .

[tmp7704]

AlexXIV wrote...

Then the story should probably have started with character creation.

I agree that having Cassandra ask what Hawke looks like and then switching to CC would make sense even with the whole frame narrative thing going. Being able to immediately explode darkspawn got higher priority, though.

[AlexXIV]

tmp7704 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Then the story should probably have started with character creation.

I agree that having Cassandra ask what Hawke looks like and then switching to CC would make sense even with the whole frame narrative thing going. Being able to immediately explode darkspawn got higher priority, though.

Looks like it. Screw the story anyway, it's not like it's an RPG.

[Sarielle]

Critical Miss wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I honestly doubt Varric described Hawke's look in detail. And neither do I believe that this is what Cassandra is most curious about.

Cassandra is supposed to be desperately looking for Hawke. Varric claims he doesn't know where Hawke is. With this setup, the looks of Hawke should be the first subject of detailed inquiry, if just so she can then pass this info to her people so they actually know what the person they're looking for looks like.

Then the story should probably have started with character creation.

Varric is playing with Cassandra, it seems. He doesn't act the type to spill it all out at the drop of a hat.

This is also what I rather assumed.

He went from "epically handsome, dashing Champion" to "a lean man, with dark eyes and golden locks" or something.

Either way...I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. You don't like it, okay. But being all "BIOWARE IS RACIST OMG BECAUSE IT'S SAYING BLACK PEOPLE AREN'T HEROIC" etc etc. (not directed at anyone I quoted necessarily...I forget who it was that kept bringing that up and I'm not rereading a bunch of posturing to figure it out again) is a bit silly.

Edit: typos.

EDIT EDIT: I'm also guessing none of you ever played the game where something is said and passed around the room in whispers...it always ends up being epically different from how it started.

Modifié par Sarielle, 01 mars 2011 - 11:20 .

[AlexXIV]

I don't see the racism thing either, but then again I am male white caucasian. You know ...

[Icy Magebane]

Sarielle wrote...

This is also what I rather assumed.

He went from "epically handsome, dashing Champion" to "a lean man, with dark eyes and golden locks" or something.

Either way...I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. You don't like it, okay. But being all "BIOWARE IS RACIST OMG BECAUSE IT'S SAYING BLACK PEOPLE AREN'T HEROIC" etc etc. (not directed at anyone I quoted necessarily...I forget who it was that kept bringing that up and I'm not rereading a bunch of posturing to figure it out again) is a bit silly.

Edit: typos.

EDIT EDIT: I'm also guessing none of you ever played the game where something is said and passed around the room in whispers...it always ends up being epically different from how it started.

It's childish to dismiss complaints simply because you do not feel they are a problem.  The whole idea of being forced to play as default Hawke is what's really silly.  Whatever... I am not even going to argue about this because the game is already done and there's no changing this stupid decision.  I just wanted to add my voice to those who think critically and can understand when something is illogical.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 01 mars 2011 - 11:24 .

[sevalaricgirl]

Don't worry about it. There are brilliant modders out there who will fix Bioware's mistake with or without a toolset. And yes, mistake it is. They should have put a helmet or cloak on default Hawke so you couldn't see the hair etc. To say it makes sense, makes no sense because it truly doesn't and I'm an author. I'd never describe a character as something completely different than he/she was even if it was an exaggeration. Black Hawke being 7ft tall is a legend. Black Hawke being white is ridiculous. Hawke being a powerful warrior is legend, blonde hawke having dark brown hair is ridiculous. This is an opinion, like it or not.

[Herr Uhl]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Don't worry about it. There are brilliant modders out there who will fix Bioware's mistake with or without a toolset. And yes, mistake it is. They should have put a helmet or cloak on default Hawke so you couldn't see the hair etc. To say it makes sense, makes no sense because it truly doesn't and I'm an author. I'd never describe a character as something completely different than he/she was even if it was an exaggeration. Black Hawke being 7ft tall is a legend. Black Hawke being white is ridiculous. Hawke being a powerful warrior is legend, blonde hawke having dark brown hair is ridiculous. This is an opinion, like it or not.

How does this change the validity of your claim?

[Jorina Leto]

Emyer wrote...

I don't like having to play a bit before getting to the CC, a lot of times I'll create a face and then a few minutes into playing I'll see something wrong with it or something that doesn't sit well with me during different cutscene angles, this makes me want to restart and do-over his face, having to play that exaggerated tale every time is a bit of a hassle, reminds me of ME2 every time I wanted to do a new custom Shep I'd have to sit through the Normandy's destruction and Shep's reconstruction.

This

[Incantrix]

While it would have been better to make your Hawke look like your Hawke (especially since I'm going to be making a black woman as a second playthrough) I wont cry "racism."

[Saibh]

AlexXIV wrote...
Looks like it. Screw the story anyway, it's not like it's an RPG.

Or maybe ten minutes as The Legend won't destroy your soul.

Honestly, this makes perfect sense to me. In this exaggerated part, Varric is pretty much lying outright. Besides claiming that he's incredibly powerful, he also ignores anyone but the surviving sibling, completely ignores why Hawke is there at all, and I'd guess claims that Hawke fights a dragon, because Cassandra doesn't seem to know who Flemeth is in relation to Hawke.

So what if he's getting the appearance wrong? Most people don't know what he looks like, so Cassandra is imagining the public eye (or perhaps her idea) of what he should look like. When you choose the class, you can't pick the "boring" specs. When people think of the Legend of Mage Hawke, they think exploding fireballs and icicle shards, not a healer. When they think of a warrior, they don't think of a solid tank, they think of a greatsword wielding monster. And when they think of how you look, like they of someone who is strong and probably attractive.

The CC can allow you to make the ugliest person known by man or beast. But that's not what people think of when they think of The Champion. Why imagine someone so powerful as a balding, beady-eyed, dour-looking man? You're seeing the imagining of Hawke, not the real thing. This is not your character. Even if it looks like your character. You can't select their name, or their spec, either.

[Sarielle]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

This is also what I rather assumed.

He went from "epically handsome, dashing Champion" to "a lean man, with dark eyes and golden locks" or something.

Either way...I don't really understand what all the fuss is about. You don't like it, okay. But being all "BIOWARE IS RACIST OMG BECAUSE IT'S SAYING BLACK PEOPLE AREN'T HEROIC" etc etc. (not directed at anyone I quoted necessarily...I forget who it was that kept bringing that up and I'm not rereading a bunch of posturing to figure it out again) is a bit silly.

Edit: typos.

EDIT EDIT: I'm also guessing none of you ever played the game where something is said and passed around the room in whispers...it always ends up being epically different from how it started.

It's childish to dismiss complaints simply because you do not feel they are a problem.  The whole idea of being forced to play as default Hawke is what's really silly.  Whatever... I am not even going to argue about this because the game is already done and there's no changing this stupid decision.  I just wanted to add my voice to those who think critically and can understand when something is illogical.

Oh, do condescend to teach us ignorant masses this new logic of yours. Apparently the only theories that hold up are those that are similar to yours.

-golfclap- for the effort, I guess.

[eleridragon]

I'm going to throw this out there, but have you ever considered that skin colour isn't something seen as a defining feature in Thedas?

Your race, maybe, especially if the storyteller or their audience isn't of the same race. But Thedas isn't Earth, doesn't have Earth's history, and therefore someone living in that world may not have the same way of describing someone in the way a 21st century Earth human would.

If that's the case, I can well believe it's something that Varric didn't see as a necessary part of his description.

[Eveangaline]

Critical Miss wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

Jwlynas wrote...

I love the credit people are giving Varric. Surely what we're seeing is Cassandras vision of the story as being told by Varric?

Uh, yeah, this is kind of what I assumed was going on. "LegendHawke" is just how Cassandra fills him in, until Varric gets to the actual details.

EDIT: She's white, thus she would probably fill in with a white person until told differently, if "your" (general you) Hawke is black, for instance. If Varric says "handsome" or "pretty" we get her generic idea of what handsome or pretty is, etc.

People build up 'legends' that are familiar and comforting. Jesus is a perfect example of this.

The difference being that Jesus and anyone that ever saw him died thousands of years ago. Hawke is still alive, as are plenty of people who have seen/met her.

[Annarl]

Jorina Leto wrote...

Emyer wrote...

I don't like having to play a bit before getting to the CC, a lot of times I'll create a face and then a few minutes into playing I'll see something wrong with it or something that doesn't sit well with me during different cutscene angles, this makes me want to restart and do-over his face, having to play that exaggerated tale every time is a bit of a hassle, reminds me of ME2 every time I wanted to do a new custom Shep I'd have to sit through the Normandy's destruction and Shep's reconstruction.

This

That was terrible.  My MShep I used the default but my FShep was customized and until I changed those file names I had to sit through that intro so many times<_< because I couldn't quite get her face right.

[yeti_magi]

eleridragon wrote...

I'm going to throw this out there, but have you ever considered that skin colour isn't something seen as a defining feature in Thedas?

Your race, maybe, especially if the storyteller or their audience isn't of the same race. But Thedas isn't Earth, doesn't have Earth's history, and therefore someone living in that world may not have the same way of describing someone in the way a 21st century Earth human would.

If that's the case, I can well believe it's something that Varric didn't see as a necessary part of his description.

 
  people whose minds would be at all blown by your observations (well-delivered, btw!) could definitely use a crash course in pre-1700 'race philosophy', if i might over-concretize the concept.

[Tleining]

@ sevalaricgirl
it's nice that you are an author, but your personal opinion isn't the basis for what is right and wrong. And calling something a mistake goes beyond an opinion. I really hope, that no one will ever call your work a mistake, or doesn't see the sense behind it. You might want to work on voicing your opinion while respecting the opinion of others.

[Jorina Leto]

Saibh wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
Looks like it. Screw the story anyway, it's not like it's an RPG.

Or maybe ten minutes as The Legend won't destroy your soul.

Honestly, this makes perfect sense to me. In this exaggerated part, Varric is pretty much lying outright. Besides claiming that he's incredibly powerful, he also ignores anyone but the surviving sibling, completely ignores why Hawke is there at all, and I'd guess claims that Hawke fights a dragon, because Cassandra doesn't seem to know who Flemeth is in relation to Hawke.

So what if he's getting the appearance wrong? Most people don't know what he looks like, so Cassandra is imagining the public eye (or perhaps her idea) of what he should look like. When you choose the class, you can't pick the "boring" specs. When people think of the Legend of Mage Hawke, they think exploding fireballs and icicle shards, not a healer. When they think of a warrior, they don't think of a solid tank, they think of a greatsword wielding monster. And when they think of how you look, like they of someone who is strong and probably attractive.

The CC can allow you to make the ugliest person known by man or beast. But that's not what people think of when they think of The Champion. Why imagine someone so powerful as a balding, beady-eyed, dour-looking man? You're seeing the imagining of Hawke, not the real thing. This is not your character. Even if it looks like your character. You can't select their name, or their spec, either.

And? It's till annoying to play this part if you just want to create a new char.