706 réponses à ce sujet

[Sarielle]

Eveangaline wrote...

Critical Miss wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

Jwlynas wrote...

I love the credit people are giving Varric. Surely what we're seeing is Cassandras vision of the story as being told by Varric?

Uh, yeah, this is kind of what I assumed was going on. "LegendHawke" is just how Cassandra fills him in, until Varric gets to the actual details.

EDIT: She's white, thus she would probably fill in with a white person until told differently, if "your" (general you) Hawke is black, for instance. If Varric says "handsome" or "pretty" we get her generic idea of what handsome or pretty is, etc.

People build up 'legends' that are familiar and comforting. Jesus is a perfect example of this.

The difference being that Jesus and anyone that ever saw him died thousands of years ago. Hawke is still alive, as are plenty of people who have seen/met her.

This has already been touched on more than once. You're either really skimming, not refreshing very often or totally cherrypicking what you respond to in an attempt to handwaive counterarguments.

Jorina Leto wrote...

And? It's till annoying to play this part if you just want to create a new char.

This
I'll agree with...though unless it's really glaring I can probably live
with it until the Black Emporium or whatever where we can change our
appearances if we want.

Modifié par Sarielle, 01 mars 2011 - 11:40 .

[Sarielle]

Didn't mean to post twice...

Modifié par Sarielle, 01 mars 2011 - 11:40 .

[PrinceOfFallout13]

Jorina Leto wrote...

Saibh wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
Looks like it. Screw the story anyway, it's not like it's an RPG.

Or maybe ten minutes as The Legend won't destroy your soul.

Honestly, this makes perfect sense to me. In this exaggerated part, Varric is pretty much lying outright. Besides claiming that he's incredibly powerful, he also ignores anyone but the surviving sibling, completely ignores why Hawke is there at all, and I'd guess claims that Hawke fights a dragon, because Cassandra doesn't seem to know who Flemeth is in relation to Hawke.

So what if he's getting the appearance wrong? Most people don't know what he looks like, so Cassandra is imagining the public eye (or perhaps her idea) of what he should look like. When you choose the class, you can't pick the "boring" specs. When people think of the Legend of Mage Hawke, they think exploding fireballs and icicle shards, not a healer. When they think of a warrior, they don't think of a solid tank, they think of a greatsword wielding monster. And when they think of how you look, like they of someone who is strong and probably attractive.

The CC can allow you to make the ugliest person known by man or beast. But that's not what people think of when they think of The Champion. Why imagine someone so powerful as a balding, beady-eyed, dour-looking man? You're seeing the imagining of Hawke, not the real thing. This is not your character. Even if it looks like your character. You can't select their name, or their spec, either.

And? It's till annoying to play this part if you just want to create a new char.

its just 5 mins<_<

[Ryzaki]

5 minutes for EACH time you want to make an adjustment.

That builds on fast.

[Critical Miss]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Don't worry about it. There are brilliant modders out there who will fix Bioware's mistake with or without a toolset. And yes, mistake it is. They should have put a helmet or cloak on default Hawke so you couldn't see the hair etc. To say it makes sense, makes no sense because it truly doesn't and I'm an author. I'd never describe a character as something completely different than he/she was even if it was an exaggeration. Black Hawke being 7ft tall is a legend. Black Hawke being white is ridiculous. Hawke being a powerful warrior is legend, blonde hawke having dark brown hair is ridiculous. This is an opinion, like it or not.

How is it a mistake when the story unfolds in the eyes of characters, rather than the writer? 

[AlexXIV]

Saibh wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
Looks like it. Screw the story anyway, it's not like it's an RPG.

Or maybe ten minutes as The Legend won't destroy your soul.

Honestly, this makes perfect sense to me. In this exaggerated part, Varric is pretty much lying outright. Besides claiming that he's incredibly powerful, he also ignores anyone but the surviving sibling, completely ignores why Hawke is there at all, and I'd guess claims that Hawke fights a dragon, because Cassandra doesn't seem to know who Flemeth is in relation to Hawke.

So what if he's getting the appearance wrong? Most people don't know what he looks like, so Cassandra is imagining the public eye (or perhaps her idea) of what he should look like. When you choose the class, you can't pick the "boring" specs. When people think of the Legend of Mage Hawke, they think exploding fireballs and icicle shards, not a healer. When they think of a warrior, they don't think of a solid tank, they think of a greatsword wielding monster. And when they think of how you look, like they of someone who is strong and probably attractive.

The CC can allow you to make the ugliest person known by man or beast. But that's not what people think of when they think of The Champion. Why imagine someone so powerful as a balding, beady-eyed, dour-looking man? You're seeing the imagining of Hawke, not the real thing. This is not your character. Even if it looks like your character. You can't select their name, or their spec, either.

Well it doesn't make perfect sense, for several reasons explained in this thread, between all the spam and overreacting. It can be explained, yes. But this explaination is just far less than satisfying imo. She can believe Varric's description of Hawke then Varric has no reason to change his story in this respect. Or she doesn't believe his description of Hawke then she should have interrupted much earlier. Anyway, I think tmp is right. It is bad storytelling to get people involved in the action early with the exaggerated part. Maybe their game data said that too many people stopped playing early. It couldn't be that it was the CCs fault because people realized how bad their created character in the game actually looks i guess.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 01 mars 2011 - 11:46 .

[Sarielle]

AlexXIV wrote...
 Maybe their game data said that too many people stopped playing early. It couldn't be that it was the CCs fault because they realzed how bad their created character in the game actually looks i guess.

Lol, indeed. Why do SO MANY character creators take place in a dimly-lit environment so that colours, in particular, look completely different in daylight?

Modifié par Sarielle, 01 mars 2011 - 11:46 .

[Annarl]

Sarielle wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...
 Maybe their game data said that too many people stopped playing early. It couldn't be that it was the CCs fault because they realzed how bad their created character in the game actually looks i guess.

Lol, indeed. Why do SO MANY character creators take place in a dimly-lit environment so that colours, in particular, look completely different in daylight?

Now that is another good question if my character has dark hair I can't see that well.  I hope this is better in the game.

[tmp7704]

eleridragon wrote...

I'm going to throw this out there, but have you ever considered that skin colour isn't something seen as a defining feature in Thedas?

"Over a hundred years later, in 6:30 Steel Age, the first qunari ships were reported off the coast of Par Vollen in the far north, marking the beginning of a new age of warfare. Gold-skinned giants said to hail from an eastern land across the Boeric Ocean, the qunari are a mystery to most people."

Size and skin colour are used to describe general appearance of a race. This doesn't exactly support the theory skin colour is something people simply don't pay attention to when it comes to the "defining features".

Especially if --like the others say-- majority of the population is supposed to be light skinned. Which would make any person of different tone visibly stand out.

[LeonardoLuiz]

It was just a demo. =~~

It would look like a "B game" if they actually put a Diablo-like screen to choose class and gender guys.

(By the way i was actually expecting the game to start on the Battle of Ostaghar, if hawke is not a mage of course.)

[Saibh]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well it doesn't make perfect sense, for several reasons explained in this thread, between all the spam and overreacting. It can be explained, yes. But this explaination is just far less than satisfying imo. She can believe Varric's description of Hawke then Varric has no reason to change his story in this respect. Or she doesn't believe his description of Hawke then she should have interrupted much earlier. Anyway, I think tmp is right. It is bad storytelling to get people involved in the action early with the exaggerated part. Maybe their game data said that too many people stopped playing early. It couldn't be that it was the CCs fault because people realized how bad their created character in the game actually looks i guess.

I don't think Varric described him. She just says "start talking dwarf", and leaves the explaining up to him. Maybe what she's imagining is indeed what someone thinks he looks like. Maybe she would have asked him to explain his appearance in a few minutes, but she wanted to hear what he knew, first.

It's not bad storytelling. You're a legend. This game is happening ten years ahead of what you actually start out as, and you're playing as what you will become, but also what people think of you. Giving you a taste of power. I found it to be exciting, and a good contrast to your weak, fleeing desperately true self.

This is only ten minutes, and there are perfectly good explanations as to why you're not allowed to choose. You can't choose your name, your appearance, or what spec you are. Because none of that is important to the Legend. You are Hawke, Champion of Kirkwall. You are a powerful, attractive figure, who is a dangerous behemoth on the battlefield. You never show fear, you never run. You stand and fight. All of these things are backed up by the exaggerated portion.

[Merced652]

LeonardoLuiz wrote...

It was just a demo. =~~

It would look like a "B game" if they actually put a Diablo-like screen to choose class and gender guys.

(By the way i was actually expecting the game to start on the Battle of Ostaghar, if hawke is not a mage of course.)

:innocent:

Yea, i know some B games with score screen too.

[Katreyn]

 I hope not...honestly.  If so it'll be up there with the annoying ME2 intro (just a little better being that you fight for like 2 mins)that I just tab out or walk away for like 5 minutes.  

Though I imagine if they allow modding, someone will find a way to get around that part.  Because after the 20th replay or remake to make sure your character looks the way you want, you'll probably be a little irked. 

[AlexXIV]

Saibh wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Well it doesn't make perfect sense, for several reasons explained in this thread, between all the spam and overreacting. It can be explained, yes. But this explaination is just far less than satisfying imo. She can believe Varric's description of Hawke then Varric has no reason to change his story in this respect. Or she doesn't believe his description of Hawke then she should have interrupted much earlier. Anyway, I think tmp is right. It is bad storytelling to get people involved in the action early with the exaggerated part. Maybe their game data said that too many people stopped playing early. It couldn't be that it was the CCs fault because people realized how bad their created character in the game actually looks i guess.

I don't think Varric described him. She just says "start talking dwarf", and leaves the explaining up to him. Maybe what she's imagining is indeed what someone thinks he looks like. Maybe she would have asked him to explain his appearance in a few minutes, but she wanted to hear what he knew, first.

It's not bad storytelling. You're a legend. This game is happening ten years ahead of what you actually start out as, and you're playing as what you will become, but also what people think of you. Giving you a taste of power. I found it to be exciting, and a good contrast to your weak, fleeing desperately true self.

This is only ten minutes, and there are perfectly good explanations as to why you're not allowed to choose. You can't choose your name, your appearance, or what spec you are. Because none of that is important to the Legend. You are Hawke, Champion of Kirkwall. You are a powerful, attractive figure, who is a dangerous behemoth on the battlefield. You never show fear, you never run. You stand and fight. All of these things are backed up by the exaggerated portion.

You can choose gender and class. Would you say that's more important than anything else?

[Tamyn]

Ryzaki wrote...

5 minutes for EACH time you want to make an adjustment.

That builds on fast.

Plus time for loading screens.

[Saibh]

AlexXIV wrote...

You can choose gender and class. Would you say that's more important than anything else?

Because most people know what gender and class you are. I really doubt the Champion of Kirkwall is mentioned without saying "she" or "he", and I doubt they wouldn't know that you're a fierce warrior, a sneaky rogue, or an arcane mage. Exactly what you do with that power they don't really know, but they do imagine that you're tough and powerful, and that usually doesn't equate to defensive sword and board or ranged archer or healing mage.

[tmp7704]

Saibh wrote...

This is only ten minutes, and there are perfectly good explanations as to why you're not allowed to choose. You can't choose your name, your appearance, or what spec you are. Because none of that is important to the Legend. You are Hawke, Champion of Kirkwall. You are a powerful, attractive figure, who is a dangerous behemoth on the battlefield. You never show fear, you never run. You stand and fight. All of these things are backed up by the exaggerated portion.

These are excuses, not explanations. The explanation is you're not allowed to pick these things because it may possibly bore someone  and make them quit the game before they can explode some darkspawn.

[Saibh]

tmp7704 wrote...

These are excuses, not explanations. The explanation is you're not allowed to pick these things because it may possibly bore someone  and make them quit the game before they can explode some darkspawn.

That's one of the reasons, sure. Why can't it also be these? The set-up is all there: a false, overblown story of a powerful figure, and having an iconic appearance fits right in with that.

[FDrage]

Jzadek72 wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

It's the legendary Hawke. William Wallace didn't look at all like Mel Gibson did he?

Thedas has cinemas now?

The Default Hawke is moddled after Mel Gibson ?

[AlexXIV]

Saibh wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

You can choose gender and class. Would you say that's more important than anything else?

Because most people know what gender and class you are. I really doubt the Champion of Kirkwall is mentioned without saying "she" or "he", and I doubt they wouldn't know that you're a fierce warrior, a sneaky rogue, or an arcane mage. Exactly what you do with that power they don't really know, but they do imagine that you're tough and powerful, and that usually doesn't equate to defensive sword and board or ranged archer or healing mage.

And they would probably know if you are young or old, good-looking or ugly. I mean he might as well have seduced his way to Champion. I mean if he is a living legend then I doubt people will not talk about that.

[Merced652]

Besides, when the **** did 10 minutes become some miniscule amount of time especially when potentially subjected to it multiple times.

EDIT: Also, its like in movies, games, or books where something is explained by some lame ass catch all. I guess hawke is champion cause a wizard did it huh?

Modifié par Merced652, 02 mars 2011 - 12:12 .

[Rykoth]

People are being way too uptight/politically correct.

GET OVER IT.

Seriously. I can understand the annoyance if you're a perfectionist with CC, and thus have to keep restarting, but ****ing because Hawke isn't black is pathetic.I wouldn't care if default Hawke was white/black/asian/hispanic, because it's the legend, and a fabrication.

Stop trying to make a moral argument folks. For the love of god.

[FDrage]

Saibh wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

You can choose gender and class. Would you say that's more important than anything else?

Because most people know what gender and class you are. I really doubt the Champion of Kirkwall is mentioned without saying "she" or "he", and I doubt they wouldn't know that you're a fierce warrior, a sneaky rogue, or an arcane mage. Exactly what you do with that power they don't really know, but they do imagine that you're tough and powerful, and that usually doesn't equate to defensive sword and board or ranged archer or healing mage.

Didn't know that the beard was THAT legendary and THAT important ?!? ..

[Lethys1]

Oh noes, we can't play as exactly my character for about two minutes worth of play time.

[Saibh]

AlexXIV wrote...

And they would probably know if you are young or old, good-looking or ugly. I mean he might as well have seduced his way to Champion. I mean if he is a living legend then I doubt people will not talk about that.

Hawke is technically never old, just as the Warden is technically never old, despite how you can make him look.

And, tell me, when you hear about an important...let's say military leader, is the first question out of your mouth "is he ugly?" Most people probably wouldn't ask. Considering these people don't have a network to accurate share this information, why would you know? Why would you even care to know, since you're not going to meet him? His exploits are more important than his appearance, and if you, in your mind's eye, want to imagine him to be a handsome bearded fellow, that's your choice.

And you don't even know if it's possible to seduce your way into being the Champion. And even if you did, that's not as fancy as you being an ultimate badass. You know how Flemeth's legend attributes all of these unrelated things to her? Well, it makes it sound better. Misinformation, sometimes purposeful, is spread, and people swallow it.