706 réponses à ce sujet

[Tleining]

@ Siradix
no, it's like in Dogma. People in church tell you over and over again, that jesus was white. Then you meet Rufus and learn that Jesus was black, didn't like to be the savior, and so on.

[BadgerladDK]

tmp7704 wrote...

Sora Shepherd wrote...

Won't The Black Emporium DLC solve the need to start a new profile over an over again?

Given you won't get to access it until Kirkwall if i understand it right, that may require x hours of playing and putting up with botched appearance until you're able to correct the mistake. Quite faster to just restart, even with the needless delay of the "legendary" intro battles.

Haven't read all 15 plus pages of the thread, so ignore me if it's been mentioned already: Assuming the black emporium solution is out, how about just saving before the cc kicks in so you don't have to sit through the intro if you decide the character doesn't look right outside of the cc?

[Ziggeh]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

My statement was accurate tyvm. Shouldn't call people awful at things as a reason to not show people data as it's nothing more than akin to a red herring.

You're extrapolating from an extremely limited, bias sample. It's an anecdote. It's saying that no one likes marmite because I do not. Your statement was accurate, it just wasn't in any way a counter point to actual data.

Dragoonlordz wrote...
My statistical anaysis is as good as the people at Bioware when data is given and not hidden. What people have shown me is only a sample of a sample with no links to the source which in itself brings doubts into the reliability.

Like I say, I'm suprised they've even released that much. People will attempt to read into it what they will. Data is only as good as it's usage. Your statistical anaysis is hugely flawed, there's is just raw data. Feel free to assume they're lying because it doesn't match your beliefs.

[rak72]

Naitaka wrote...

In terms of either role playing or convience, this new system is a terrible idea. And to think they did it because they don't want players from a certain demography to get bored by the lack of "action" at the beginning of the game just makes me cringe. It's especially bad for people like me who want their custom Hawke to look perfect. Without being able to edit your morph in the toolset, I probably have to go through the initial section dozen of times before I can even start playing the game.

One thousand times THIS. 
I want my Hawk to look good - it will take many tries & everytime I have to sit through that Ogre fight.  All it has done is diminish the impact of that scene because I have seen it so many times.  Now I escape through the dialog, go clean the litterbox during the fight & hope it's all over by the time I  get back.  I hope a modder can make something that will skip this scene.

[Demx]

Tleining wrote...

@ Siradix
no, it's like in Dogma. People in church tell you over and over again, that jesus was white. Then you meet Rufus and learn that Jesus was black, didn't like to be the savior, and so on.

But Rufus didn't start out his story by telling people that Jesus was white. From what I recall, he just said from the beginning that Jesus was black.

[Ziggeh]

AlexXIV wrote...

Well the video noticed that my choice was female warrior though. Just not the custom face. Well it could be it is an old build of the game and does just not support the CC despite the mod. I am just saying it is a bit worrying me right now.

Yeah, it's two videos, one for each gender. Probably why they disabled the CC really. Saves loading that area.

[Thalorin1919]

Wait, so they are doing it like...you play as default Hawke in the legend and THEN you have access to the character creation?

If so...come on man. come on.

[AkiKishi]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

It gathers a bigger sample than you ever could. That makes it statistically more reliable.

Show me this data then with millions or thousends of people who took part with or without their knowledge? What? You can't... Oh shock/horror.

Didn't someone just post the ME2 data not long ago ? 

You consent when you accept the terms and conditions. Most people don't read those.

Ask one of the Bioware guys, they may know where to find it. I'm just aware of what it is and what it does.

[FearTheLiving]

Tleining wrote...
aren't you doing the same? Several people have given explanations, as to why you see Hawkes face. Why it works with the story. But you don't accept that. You don't like the way it's set up, because it's breaking immersion for you. That's your opinion, nothing more, and guess what. Other people have different opinions.
Hypothetically: Do you really believe, that if bioware would have done the cloaking thing, no-one would have complained?

But fine: Varric is telling the legendary Story of a Champion. In it, Hawke was born a champion, walking through the Darkspawn Horde without caring how many Darkspawn were silly enough to get in his/her way.
So now imagine a description for that hero.
A: "Hawke was standing on the battlefield, the slaughtered bodies of a thousand Darkspawn surrounding him/her. With a smile on the lips, a breeze rustling his/her hair, he/she set off towards Kirkwall, where the Champion would make his/her mark on the world."
B: "Hawke was standing on the battlefield, the slaughtered bodies of a thousand Darkspawn surrounding him/her. The mask hiding his/her face, he/she set off towards Kirkwall, where the Champion would make his/her mark on the world."

So which of these two seems more heroic to you? Mind you, heroic, not mysterious. When playing the demo, i was constantly reminded of Cailan, in his massive armor, hair flowing in the wind, "Glorious".

The hidden face worked in ME2, because we already knew what our character looked like. But for the first glance at the Champion, the beginning of the Legend? So now i say, masking Hawke would break immersion for me, and no matter what examples you bring, i will stand by that. Makes for a viable point, yes?

It's breaking immersion because it's using the default face do you not get that? Did I really need to explain that to you considering everyone has stated reasons why they don't like it. As to the Mask like many said it's only a 10 minute long thing then the CC comes up why even show the default Hawke then? You'll still hear about how glorious Hawke is because Varrick is still telling the story. This is why CC should have just bee added at the start rather then after 10 minutes.

Also How would Varrick even know he smiled? He wasn't even ***** there stop the BS and just admit the 10 min fight is just a stupid idea in general. If we didn't see the default hawke and rather a powerful figue (which legends usually start as) it makes more sense. Having him covered from head to toe may be bad for just you but look how many people hate that you play default Hawke. So would you rather imagine your character is under that armour or see a flat out lie of what your Hawke is? Makes no sesne for Hawke to look different if Varrick has already met him/her and knows he/she isn't white or have black hair ect and it's rather stupid that he'd just suddenly remember how (s)he'd look like just because Cassandra says BS.

Modifié par FearTheLiving, 02 mars 2011 - 06:00 .

[Tleining]

@ FearTheLiving
because you don't like it, it's a mistake. Right, excuse me for talking to you. I like the way it is, and i won't change my mind just because you disagree.

[FearTheLiving]

Tleining wrote...

@ FearTheLiving
because you don't like it, it's a mistake. Right, excuse me for talking to you. I like the way it is, and i won't change my mind just because you disagree.

I'm not the only one who doesn't like it. Like I said I'm hoping they'll handle it differently in the game and I'm not going to make a big deal about it. I just think the decision to do it was stupid and pointless and I think they'll be a lot of people not too happy about it. Glad you like it though because what you like is the better choice?

EDIT Quick question though will you even be making a character or use the default?

Modifié par FearTheLiving, 02 mars 2011 - 06:09 .

[Darkhour]

Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens wrote...

 lol at official canon Hawke being white.

I'm finding that Bioware can be so ridiculous.


BDF: "There were no black people in medieval Europe so there weren't any in Dragon Age."

Me: But there was dragons???


BDF: *silence*

Me (er, you): Wait a minute. DA takes place in Europe???

BDF: *Silence is now getting akward."

[Sarielle]

Naitaka wrote...

Sarielle wrote...

>_O

Reported for spam, if you have nothing to add to the discussion, don't post in this thread.

And here I thought that image was quite pertinent. This has been talked to death now. No new arguments are being made, it's just rehash after rehash after rehash.

You might want to a) actually read this thread (where I've made several arguments already) and look into purchasing a sense of humor.

And maybe see a doctor about removing that object lodged in one of your nether orifaces.

[Darkhour]

meeho wrote...

wait.... you have to play as the default hawke before you get to customize her? thats retarded

No more retarded than being able to be a chick in the first place.  I mean, come on... a woman champion.  Talk about high fantasy. 

[Tleining]

@ FearTheLiving
Your missing my point. I do get that you don't like it. I get that others don't like it. And i respect it, hopefully some modder will help you out. But is it too much to ask that you accept that other people like the game the way it is? Calling it a mistake, BS, and so on isn't really supporting your case.

fyi, i won't use default Hawke, i'm already playing around with the CC (thanks gibbed). And i can't wait for the toolset.

[FearTheLiving]

Tleining wrote...

@ FearTheLiving
Your missing my point. I do get that you don't like it. I get that others don't like it. And i respect it, hopefully some modder will help you out. But is it too much to ask that you accept that other people like the game the way it is? Calling it a mistake, BS, and so on isn't really supporting your case.

fyi, i won't use default Hawke, i'm already playing around with the CC (thanks gibbed). And i can't wait for the toolset.

Yeah it would be awesome if modds changed it too bad I play on 360... This is why it angers me. Sorry your on PC and if you didn't like it you could change it. I don't have that option just like all the others that play on consoles. I'm sorry I am also gonna say it's BS because it makes no logical sense to do it that way. I'm happy for the people that like It I really am (you seem to be the only one most people just don't care I wouldn't call that liking or disliking) but I'm not gonna say I agree with the decision because people like it or don't care.

EDIT Also you seemed to dislike my whole masked Hawke idea but why? It's the same thing without showing Hawke, it shows the Legend of Hawke a super bad ass who no one knew at the time.

Modifié par FearTheLiving, 02 mars 2011 - 06:24 .

[Tleining]

@ FearTheLiving
MaskedHawke-Idea: It doesn't fit. Like i explained, in the Legend Hawke was born as a Champion, never weak, never scared. To me, wearing a Helmet/Mask is about protection. Not wearing one, "hair flowing in the wind", shows Hawkes superiority over the Darkspawn even in the Cutscenes.
A Mask would work for a mysterious Hero, someone without roots, who appeared out of nowhere and disappeared without a trace. But that's not the Hawke in this story.

[FearTheLiving]

Tleining wrote...

@ FearTheLiving
MaskedHawke-Idea: It doesn't fit. Like i explained, in the Legend Hawke was born as a Champion, never weak, never scared. To me, wearing a Helmet/Mask is about protection. Not wearing one, "hair flowing in the wind", shows Hawkes superiority over the Darkspawn even in the Cutscenes.
A Mask would work for a mysterious Hero, someone without roots, who appeared out of nowhere and disappeared without a trace. But that's not the Hawke in this story.

Well if he's such a great champoin people should know what he looks like huh? A mask for one fight would not destroy the game. The Chamion is a fiqure that should be well known now, yet they don't know what he looks like. So it would only make sense to have him hidden behind a mask for the first fight. I still stand by the mask idea it's way better then showing the "Champion". Also I believe you can wear helmets and hoods in the actuall game so if the Champion shouldn't be wearing a helmet why even put them in the game? Let's just remove those. Hell, a champion shouldn't even being using a weapon lets get rid of those too. Your idea of a champion isn't everyones. Same goes with my mask idea it's not your idea of a champion but at least it wouldn't ruin how I or others want their Champion to actually look like.

Modifié par FearTheLiving, 02 mars 2011 - 06:47 .

[Tleining]

but..., you..., urgh
look, the beginning of the game is a Legend. A Fairy Tail, the kind of story told over and over again, a childrens story if you want. Hercules, Samson, Jesus. A made up Story, but if you dig deep enough, you discover that there is some truth to it. That there was a Person by that name.
DA2 begins with Hawkes Legend, a Hero greater than life, that's the Story Varric is telling. For further information, read my previous post.
After that begins the real story. Where we control our Hawke and shape the Legend. But guess what. Hawke isn't greater than life. He/she struggles, can't do anything to save the live of one Sibling.

"Your idea of a champion isn't everyones. Same goes with my mask idea it's not your idea of a champion but at least it wouldn't ruin how I or others want their Champion to actually look like."
You ASKED for my opinion. I gave it to you. If you didn't want to hear it, why did you ask?

[FearTheLiving]

Tleining wrote...
"Your idea of a champion isn't everyones. Same goes with my mask idea it's not your idea of a champion but at least it wouldn't ruin how I or others want their Champion to actually look like."
You ASKED for my opinion. I gave it to you. If you didn't want to hear it, why did you ask?

Because you stated it as if it were a fact. The legend could easily tell of a fiqure that goes by Hawke that does what ever. When I hear a legend I never get a description of what they look like only what they did. If I have no idea what Hercules looks like (other then the cartoon) all I know about him is that he was the son of Zues and was super strong I never hear the description of him from head to toe like the "Legend" part describes. So rather then doing it show off a true legend and just use his skill and deeds for the bases of that just like any good legend, but still it's within 10 years and shouldn't have been forgotten what he looks like.

Modifié par FearTheLiving, 02 mars 2011 - 07:59 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens wrote...

Bottomline is there's no black people because the creators didn't like the idea of including black people.

This is exactly correct.  And there's nothing wrong with that.

Since it's a fictional setting, the inclusion or exclusion of any particular colour of people is necessarily an arbitrary one.  There's no way to defend it, but nor is there any reasonable way to attack it.

Your objection to the lack of black people makes exactly as much sense as an objection to the inclusion of black people if there had been any.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Naitaka wrote...

That's why you never log into their stupid EA account while playing their games. They can keep their spyware to themselves, how I play my game is none of their business.

It is in your interests to leave the spyware on, as then their gameplay data will include your behaviour.  They can't cater to your preferences if they're unaware that those preferences exist.

[tmp7704]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

It is in your interests to leave the spyware on, as then their gameplay data will include your behaviour.  They can't cater to your preferences if they're unaware that those preferences exist.

That worked out splendidly for DA2, didn't it.

[Saibh]

Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens wrote...

 lol at official canon Hawke being white.

I'm finding that Bioware can be so ridiculous.


BDF: "There were no black people in medieval Europe so there weren't any in Dragon Age."

Me: But there was dragons???

BDF: *silence*

1) Fictional setting. Not medieval Europe. There are, however, parallels.
2) Hawke can be black. No one is saying "black people don't exist in Thedas", because they do.
3) Sheploo is white, Malcolm is white. Your Shepard and your Hawke may not be.
4) This is not "official canon", it is default. Your Hawke doesn't need to look like that. As explained many times, this is people's (or Cassandra's) perception of what Hawke looks like. Fereldans are white. Any who aren't white come from somewhere else. So, when most people think of a Champion of Fereldan heritage, they think of a white guy. If you're asked to imagine someone of African heritage, 99% of the time, you'll think of someone black.

Modifié par Saibh, 02 mars 2011 - 08:17 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

tmp7704 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

It is in your interests to leave the spyware on, as then their gameplay data will include your behaviour.  They can't cater to your preferences if they're unaware that those preferences exist.

That worked out splendidly for DA2, didn't it.

We can't know that.  Alternate realities aren't available to us.