706 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Saibh wrote...

As explained many times, this is people's (or Cassandra's) perception of what Hawke looks like.

But it's hillarious we're supposed to buy that when she's at the same time throwing around a book with quite detailed and accurate portraits of each and every of champion's companions. Apparently it's easier to get good description of these second-fiddle guys than the "most important person in Thedas" himself/herself.

[Saibh]

tmp7704 wrote...

But it's hillarious we're supposed to buy that when she's at the same time throwing around a book with quite detailed and accurate portraits of each and every of champion's companions. Apparently it's easier to get good description of these second-fiddle guys than the "most important person in Thedas" himself/herself.

And? Maybe she apprehended all of them, and is choosing Varric to speak to. We don't know (well, I don't know the back story).

My original theory is that Hawke's appearance is not important. His beard, his nose, his hair color, whatever. None of that is really important. He just needs to look strong and handsome, because that's what people think of. So long as he fits these two criteria, it doesn't really matter what his specific appearance is. BioWare, of course, chose one.

[tmp7704]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

It is in your interests to leave the spyware on, as then their gameplay data will include your behaviour.  They can't cater to your preferences if they're unaware that those preferences exist.

That worked out splendidly for DA2, didn't it.

We can't know that.  Alternate realities aren't available to us.

What would you need alternate realities for? DAO had information tracking, and there is existing DA2 in our own reality which shows how the data gathered from the players was used to influence its design.

[Dragoonlordz]

We don't know that is the case, as ideas are more often than not regardless of demand just plain rejected and ignored due to not fitting in with the developers 'vision' for the game direction he or she wishes to take it.

[iamrawn]

Saibh wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

But it's hillarious we're supposed to buy that when she's at the same time throwing around a book with quite detailed and accurate portraits of each and every of champion's companions. Apparently it's easier to get good description of these second-fiddle guys than the "most important person in Thedas" himself/herself.

And? Maybe she apprehended all of them, and is choosing Varric to speak to. We don't know (well, I don't know the back story).

My original theory is that Hawke's appearance is not important. His beard, his nose, his hair color, whatever. None of that is really important. He just needs to look strong and handsome, because that's what people think of. So long as he fits these two criteria, it doesn't really matter what his specific appearance is. BioWare, of course, chose one.

Hilarious fanboys are hilarious.

[Sylvius the Mad]

tmp7704 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

It is in your interests to leave the spyware on, as then their gameplay data will include your behaviour.  They can't cater to your preferences if they're unaware that those preferences exist.

That worked out splendidly for DA2, didn't it.

We can't know that.  Alternate realities aren't available to us.

What would you need alternate realities for? DAO had information tracking, and there is existing DA2 in our own reality which shows how the data gathered from the players was used to influence its design.

We don't know what DA2 would have looked like without the tracking.

[tmp7704]

Saibh wrote...

And? Maybe she apprehended all of them, and is choosing Varric to speak to. We don't know (well, I don't know the back story).

What does that have to do with knowing in advance what they all look like, yet not having at least equally good idea about appearance of much more famous and public person?

My original theory is that Hawke's appearance is not important.

Not important for a Seeker who is desperately searching for this very man/woman so she can put together pieces of her precious Chantry as it falls apart? You can't honestly believe this yourself.

Or is that supposed to be not important for the player? This also rings false when you take into account how 80% or more of players did choose to customize their Shepard, to name a similar example. Or all the custom Hawkes being shown off on this very forums right as we write here.

[AlmondBrown]

Here is a question then? If Hawke, the as yet to be Champion, who will, in the future, become a Legend, doesn't look like the one presented, will Flemeth go back to being a old lady who lives in a Bog or does Varric's recollection of her stay as noted and not be all FUZZY as apparently the Legends is? And he knows him from before he even became Legend right?

[tmp7704]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

We don't know what DA2 would have looked like without the tracking.

But we do know what it looks like with the tracking. If flapping my arms doesn't make me fly then i don't need to check if not flapping my arms has different outcome, in order to conclude that no, flapping my arms indeed doesn't make me fly.

[Elite Midget]

Simple.

It makes it easier to Hawke to reappear in the DA Series by having Legend Hawke look like Default Hawke at all times.

[Joy Divison]

Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens wrote...

 lol at official canon Hawke being white.

I'm finding that Bioware can be so ridiculous.


BDF: "There were no black people in medieval Europe so there weren't any in Dragon Age."

Me: But there was dragons???


BDF: *silence*

Until I can create a character in a Bioware game that looks anywhere near someone from Sri Lanka or Kalaallisut, Bioware is a racist company.

[Saibh]

tmp7704 wrote...

What does that have to do with knowing in advance what they all look like, yet not having at least equally good idea about appearance of much more famous and public person?

You have no idea how old that book is, or how new those drawings are. Regardless, it doesn't matter if it's not Cassandra's idea, but the public's. Cassandra could be the public, as well, if she's not particularly informed. Maybe she didn't ask around for his appearance. Maybe she just grabbed someone the Champion has known for ten years, throw him a chair and tell him to tell her what she needs to know.

Not important for a Seeker who is desperately searching for this very man/woman so she can put together pieces of her precious Chantry as it falls apart? You can't honestly believe this yourself.

Or is that supposed to be not important for the player? This also rings false when you take into account how 80% or more of players did choose to customize their Shepard, to name a similar example. Or all the custom Hawkes being shown off on this very forums right as we write here.

Not important for that segment. That should be clear. As I've iterated over and over, if you're seeing what the public thinks of him, then his exact appearance isn't important. Just generally strong and handsome. Or strong and beautiful.

Varric is not describing what actually happened. Therefore his appearance does not need to be his actual appearance. Can Hawke be a dual-weilding rogue with that exact face and those exact talents? Sure. But he can as easily not be. The story being told is not of your character. It is of the idea of your character.

At that moment, you are not controlling your character. You are controlling the public image of him. Because that's not what actually happens to your character. That's not actually what you say, it's not actually what happens, although it's the extremely misinformed gist of it.

It sets the tone for the rest of the story. You'll start your character as a penniless refugee with hardly any talent, almost no connections, and fleeing desperately for your life. And, well...you rise to power. But, for those ten minutes, you see what your legacy is. What they'll think of you when they think of The Champion. Not the real you, obviously, because you're about to experience what you do. But you're seeing what people think of when they think of the Champion that changes the world.

I like it. I think it makes sense. I think it takes nothing away from the player, and works both for story and gameplay.

[Aumata]

Kinda like how Jesus has different skin tones, and ethnic race. There are asian, arabic, indian, african, caucasion, even native american. This is the case with Hawke.

[almasy919]

And the bioware forums continues its proud tradition of being full of the whiny and the creepy.
Seriously. This is a point of complaint? In a world where there's no instant communication and one of the best form of physical descriptions of historical/mythical figures are bards (never mind our own recorded history of white washing historical figures) it's hard to believe that can happen in a medieval society such as DA? Ha.

Modifié par almasy919, 02 mars 2011 - 09:09 .

[tmp7704]

Saibh wrote...

Not important for that segment. That should be clear.

Well, that's not clear but meaningless. The segment itself has no opinions, so what it portrays can only be important either to these who view it, or these who take part in it. Or both. So when you say "the exact appearance isn't important" you'd need to specify to whom that isn't supposed to be important.

And like i said already, i wouldn't consider either "it's not important to the player" nor "it's not important to Cassandra" to be true.

It sets the tone for the rest of the story. You'll start your character as a penniless refugee with hardly any talent, almost no connections, and fleeing desperately for your life. And, well...you rise to power. But, for those ten minutes, you see what your legacy is. What they'll think of you when they think of The Champion. Not the real you, obviously, because you're about to experience what you do. But you're seeing what people think of when they think of the Champion that changes the world.

So, this segment is supposed to show you, the player, that at the end of the game no one in the game world even knows or cares what your character looks like, and they just imagine some generic whitebread bearded dude that may be completely unlike your customized character? And that the public doesn't actually know anything about what happened to your character or what he/she went through?

And that's supposed to be incentive to play the game? How?

I like it. I think it makes sense. I think it takes nothing away from the player, and works both for story and gameplay.

See above. I think the only way it makes sense and takes nothing is if you actively stick head in the sand and do your best to ignore the parts where it does not make sense, and where it does put in question why you'd even want to bother to play.

Modifié par tmp7704, 02 mars 2011 - 09:31 .

[Dragoonlordz]

They didn't have to do it imho plain and simple they could of allowed customisation before the introduction starts with no problems using game models as opposed to CGI. The graphics are good enough these days to do so without any problems. Either way we cannot change it now with the game itself about to hit the shelves or out mail boxes soon, but maybe for future projects for example DA3 then I guess this topic is valid.

[Sylvius the Mad]

tmp7704 wrote...

But we do know what it looks like with the tracking. If flapping my arms doesn't make me fly then i don't need to check if not flapping my arms has different outcome, in order to conclude that no, flapping my arms indeed doesn't make me fly.

If you're using that blunt a measurement, I'm not surprised you're disappointed by the results.

[Aran Linvail]

I hope you guys understand what im trying to say , im not for a English speaking Country so ...

I think people its not compalining because its innacurate , but because takes away custumization , you can say "People whiny for anything" , "Nitpick" , etc ... I know its only on the prologue , its 10 minutes only etc ... But look at the game now :

You can only be human
You cant change your companions armor
Dont have skills like coersion etc ...

Maybe this dont bother you , but some people like custumization , some people cares about that , its a RPG game after all , some people like more action and complain DAO its boring ... So they want the COD and Fable fans , its ok they want more money , they make the game more action like , nice ninja movies , exploding darkspawn , its ok , but the problem is , for some people ( Me included ) They are taking away to much Rpg elements for the sake of Action one's ... You can say im wrong , its my opinion after all , but because i dont like SOME changes , dosent mean im Creepy , Hater , etc...

[Xeranx]

almasy919 wrote...

And the bioware forums continues its proud tradition of being full of the whiny and the creepy.
Seriously. This is a point of complaint? In a world where there's no instant communication and one of the best form of physical descriptions of historical/mythical figures are bards (never mind our own recorded history of white washing historical figures) it's hard to believe that can happen in a medieval society such as DA? Ha.

In history and myth many have various reasons for wanting to depict a historical or mythological figure differently as opposed to accurately.  They do so to prop themselves up and give pride to others who are like them.  My question is then, why didn't Varric make Hawke a drawf much like himself?  We know that it's rare for dwarves to be where there is open sky --as established in DA:O-- and being able to tell the story of a Dwarven champion should be a great thing for those who live on the surface much like the elf-centric story you can tell the elven children in the city elf storyline.  

If Varric had taken the liberty to exaggerate and make Hawke a dwarf it would have been better, but Varric told the legend of a human.  I mean, if we're going to go the route of, "Varric's just exaggerating" then why stop at the most plausible description that would serve Cassandra who doesn't seem the least bit interested in what the Champion is but who the Champion is?

Hopefully that last line makes sense.

Modifié par Xeranx, 02 mars 2011 - 09:47 .

[Xeranx]

Meant to edit my post.

Modifié par Xeranx, 02 mars 2011 - 09:47 .

[Tomark]

Varric isn't just "exxagerating". He is telling it like people expect it- the "strong and handsome" hawk.

oh, and about the OP: i don't know if you noticed, but the demo has "tutorial active" as default. I expect the legend to be the tutorial.

hence, skippable.

[AlanC9]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

But we do know what it looks like with the tracking. If flapping my arms doesn't make me fly then i don't need to check if not flapping my arms has different outcome, in order to conclude that no, flapping my arms indeed doesn't make me fly.

If you're using that blunt a measurement, I'm not surprised you're disappointed by the results.

Well, I can see how someone can believe that the tracking is detrimental to his personal interests. For instance, if you're interested in playing as an elf or a dwarf. Tracking certainly didn't help that stay in, and may have given it a push out.

[tmp7704]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

If you're using that blunt a measurement, I'm not surprised you're disappointed by the results.

No amount of different and hypothetical alternate reality scenarios would make the results in our own reality any less disappointing. I take it what you're getting at is some sort of "It could be even worse without the metrics" reasoning, but that doesn't change the current "it's bad" from being exactly that.

Modifié par tmp7704, 02 mars 2011 - 09:54 .

[AlanC9]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Naitaka wrote...

That's why you never log into their stupid EA account while playing their games. They can keep their spyware to themselves, how I play my game is none of their business.

It is in your interests to leave the spyware on, as then their gameplay data will include your behaviour.  They can't cater to your preferences if they're unaware that those preferences exist.

Just because it bears repeating, it seems that logging in is not required. Data tracking is a separate process, apparently. You have to explicitly turn it off from the options screen.