706 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

makenzieshepard wrote...
Yes I'm sure it was the 8x10's my Human Noble/Dalish/Mage/Dwarven warden hand signed and not that fact that I was traveling round the country with a dwarf, qunari, elf assasin, orlesian born fereldan assasin/chantry sister, royal bastard while completing grey warden treaties that identified me above all these other things and more. Because everything said by an NPC is absolute fact, yo ho.

Sorry reflex action after riding pirates of the carribean

Considering the fact that they go Warden and not point out anyone else yeah I'm pretty sure it was you. No one seems to care about anyone else. They just beeline in on the poor PC. Just like in Mass Effect and DA2 has a high chance of having it. 

EDIT:

Ryzaki wrote...
 "it did you no justice."

*Gasp* An inaccurate likeness, say it isn't so! 

People don't like playing legendary Hawke, I get it but the it's not realistic argument is tired and just as wrong here as it is almost everywhere else/

The "it did you no justice" was probably due to  it being a mug shot? You know those things we have now? Accurate but ugly? 

[slimgrin]

FearTheLiving wrote...

It amazes me how many people are defending this decision when there is no real purpose of it.

Oh believe me, there is a purpose, but I want to hear it from the horse's mouth. 

[Saibh]

Ryzaki wrote...

You don't care big whoop. That doesn't stop it from not making any sense.

You know what, I'm not arguing this point anymore because as I have repeatedly and explicitly said, Cassandra can know what he looks like all she wants, it doesn't really matter.

Most people =/= all. So if some people know what he looks like that's enough for Cassandra to know what he looks like and that Varric's spewing BS.

Once again, don't care, not my point.

And how many of those people who can't identify the Warden are looking for him/her to help them?

A bucketload, what RPG did you play?

Yes because someone who is desperate is going to let someone lie to them on and on before finally getting fed up with the dragon bit. Ignoring everything and anything else.

Once again, this could be happening over the course of three minutes. So what if she lets him go on? Are you Cassandra? Did you write her?

Clearly, she does let him go on. You'd think the "darkspawn blowing up left and right" should have tipped her off, but nope. She lets him.

So I'm supposed to believe someone trying to hunt Hawke down has time to sit on her toes and let Varric spew nonsense after nonsense?

Re:above.

[FearTheLiving]

Saibh wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

So they couldn't make you a badass without turning you into default Hawke? Like I said before they should have at least just pulled a ME2 and but armor/hoods over your face. It's just plain stupid it says we aren't playing our Hawke but to us there is only one Hawke. Like others have said why is it that your companions are taking down in great detail while you the "champion" are vaugly remembered. Anyways I'm not going to get into another dicussion over it just hope Bioware knows not to pull more crap like this in the future.

They're not making you badass, they're showing the public's perception of you.

You'll notice you can't be an archer, a sword and board, or a healing mage. You'll notice you can't select your name. That's because none of that is important to the public eye. Just how tough their idea of you is. Their idea of you is not a weaselly-looking bald man running in fear of his life.

Maybe Cassandra knows exactly what you look like. The public doesn't. That's a Chantry book.

Did you not read your own post? Did you not just quote someone saying the legend is your character being an overpowered bad ass.

Modifié par FearTheLiving, 03 mars 2011 - 03:16 .

[Saibh]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

For. The. Thousandth. Time. This maketh no goddamn sense! Hawke is a living legend. His tale hasn't been passed on for centuries or even decades, his tale happened during most likely during the last decade. His actions directly influenced recent events. Big, important events. He was roaming a large principality for a decade, interacting with about every social class, clashing/siding with some of the major political players, becoming a goddamn legend.

Besides, if Hawke's appearance isn't important anyway, just give me my Hawke!

So? The Legend of Hawke is one known throughout the world.

In Thedas, there is no accurate way to spread images.

Therefore, the great majority of people in Thedas have no idea what he looks like, and their idea of him is strong and handsome and is otherwise not really important, because I really, really doubt they all had a "decide what Hawke looks like" communal and picked "bearded, dark-haired, white, blah blah".

His appearance isn't important to the public, what's so hard about that? But the public doesn't really know what he looks like, so you're seeing only the bare gist of it.

[Saibh]

FearTheLiving wrote...

Did you not read your own post? Did you not just quote someone saying the legend is your character being an overpowered bad ass.

But that isn't who you actually are.

Is it really that hard to comprehend? 

The badass, exaggerated Hawke is not your Hawke, but their idea of your Hawke.

Your Hawke had another sibling, a mother, found Aveline, a sibling died, Wesley died, you had maybe three talents, and you were vastly underpowered in comparison. You were saved by Flemeth, you didn't have fancy armor, you were running for your life.

Therefore, all of this should indicate to you that the exaggerated person is not your Hawke. It's somewhat similar, but it is your legacy, your legend, not you yourself in how you were in reality.

[Ryzaki]

Saibh wrote...

You know what, I'm not arguing this point anymore because as I have repeatedly and explicitly said, Cassandra can know what he looks like all she wants, it doesn't really matter.

So it doesn't matter that Cassandra doesn't know what Hawke looks like...yet accepts Varric's wrong description with no complaint? 

Once again, don't care, not my point.

Did you not just finish saying that Hawke's looks weren't known by common people? That's why Cassandra wouldn't know what he looked like? 

A bucketload, what RPG did you play?

Which one did you? No one was hunting my Warden down looking for help. Sure when the Warden showed up they pretty much begged by they certainly didn't send people to the Warden looking for aid. 

Once again, this could be happening over the course of three minutes. So what if she lets him go on? Are you Cassandra? Did you write her?Clearly, she does let him go on. You'd think the "darkspawn blowing up left and right" should have tipped her off, but nope. She lets him.

Oh so it's in character for Cassadra not to care she's getting inaccurate information and let Varric go on and on? She simply decides to stop indulging in Varric? Despite demanding to know he tell her everything with a threat? Oh yes. That makes perfect sense. 

[FearTheLiving]

Saibh wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

Did you not read your own post? Did you not just quote someone saying the legend is your character being an overpowered bad ass.

But that isn't who you actually are.

Is it really that hard to comprehend? 

The badass, exaggerated Hawke is not your Hawke, but their idea of your Hawke.

Your Hawke had another sibling, a mother, found Aveline, a sibling died, Wesley died, you had maybe three talents, and you were vastly underpowered in comparison. You were saved by Flemeth, you didn't have fancy armor, you were running for your life.

Therefore, all of this should indicate to you that the exaggerated person is not your Hawke. It's somewhat similar, but it is your legacy, your legend, not you yourself in how you were in reality.

W/E I'm done have fun making excuses for a stupid idea.

[Ryzaki]

That said I wouldn't give a flying hoot if the whole sequence was skippable. But with BW's record of skippable cutscenes that's probably not happening.

[monstertrucks]

I am actually against the use of default Hawke at the start. It's like if we change default Hawke to our preferred Hawke, he will be inferior no matter what because he isn't "legendary". We should be able to change the appearance from the start so that it doesn't feel like Bioware is pushing for default Hawke to be used. Although, I don't think it's intentionally racist.

[Saibh]

Ryzaki wrote...

Did you not just finish saying that Hawke's looks weren't known by common people? That's why Cassandra wouldn't know what he looked like?

I was counterarguing an argument you were making, not reinforcing my own argument. If you insist that the exaggerated part is Cassandra's vision of Hawke, then, yeah, there's a valid argument she doesn't know what he looks like.

But my argument has nothing to do with Cassandra.

Which one did you? No one was hunting my Warden down looking for help. Sure when the Warden showed up they pretty much begged by they certainly didn't send people to the Warden looking for aid.

This argument is futile, for the same reason the Cassandra one is: nothing to do with my actual argument, just an unrelated one of yours.

Oh so it's in character for Cassadra not to care she's getting inaccurate information and let Varric go on and on? She simply decides to stop indulging in Varric? Despite demanding to know he tell her everything with a threat? Oh yes. That makes perfect sense.

To not care to let him talk for three minutes about his silly, inaccurate version? Because that's easily how quick it could have gone. Who says he ever described Hawke's appearance? He's telling the Legend, you're seeing the Legend, and this is the Legends' version. Do you think he enumerated each individual one of your attacks, too? Some things he didn't have to state explicitly. Once she makes him start telling the truth, you see the true version.

Yes, she's that pressed for time, which is why they have all those little in between chats, instead of her just punching him and saying "TALK. THE TRUTH."

[Clover Rider]

Ryzaki wrote...

That said I wouldn't give a flying hoot if the whole sequence was skippable. But with BW's record of skippable cutscenes that's probably not happening.

Skippable cutscenes need to be in all games=].

[tmp7704]

Sarielle wrote...

I'm saying that putting a taste of how a class operates at slightly higher levels is probably not a bad idea, because if someone doesn't like that at all, they're not going to finish the game even had it started with character creation instead.

That's true; i suspect having option to quickly try out fully developed classes in typical situations or ones that highlight their strengths, accessible either from class selection screen or or main menu or wherever could be a good thing. (there's really no need to try and tie that with rest of the game narrative in some elaborate way, it's rather obviously as artificial experience as the act of selecting class/gender etc)

As for the other, I can see how I didn't word that very well I'm saying once I've built up a concept for, I dunno, this dwarf rogue, I may enjoy the background and personality I've created, but not the playstyle. By putting a taste of that up front, if I hate the way a rogue plays I'm just not going to roll a rogue period, and save myself the frustration/disappointment later on.

I hope that makes more sense

Ahh i see. Yes it does make sense, just works bit different from how i tend to go about these things (i use the class as one of starting points for the character's background etc) so the concept caught me off guard

[Saibh]

FearTheLiving wrote...

W/E I'm done have fun making excuses for a stupid idea.

One that you have trouble comprehending is not stupid.

[MorningBird]

As interesting as this whole debate is, I think I'm going to reserve judgment until I play the full game.  There are just too many unknowns at the moment to appropriately determine whether or not the framed narrative is effective.

- We know Hawke becomes the Champion of Kirkwall, but does anyone outside of Kirkwall even give a darn until it's 'too late'?

- How long does it take for Hawke's legend to circulate?  Is he/she already missing by the time people start to piece together ALL that he/she's accomplished?

- If Hawke becomes ruler, is he/she going to make public appearances, or travel incognito?  Are they going to socialize with their people as a ruler at all?

- How many people in Thedas look exactly like Hawke, making him/her a difficult man/woman to track down without any idea as to their whereabouts?

- WHERE is Hawke when the game begins?

- What was Cassandra doing during the 10 year period before she was charged with the duty of tracking down Hawke?

- How much of an impact do Hawke's individual feats actually have on Thedas before they 'compact' and bring it to the brink of war?

Too many questions, too few answers.  Waiting until the game comes out.

Modifié par MorningBird, 03 mars 2011 - 03:31 .

[Ryzaki]

So Cassandra's just going to stand there and let Varric lie to her from the jump? Despite the intimidating way he was dragged in? Alrighty then there's no resolving this. Because we all know you're dragged into a inquisition, your questioner gives you freedom to lie without being called on it til some time later despite demanding you start telling her everything. Yup. Totally. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 03 mars 2011 - 03:30 .

[Maugrim]

MorningBird we don't need that kind of logical thinking here!

For the record I've never said that it'd DID make sense with regards to the full story, only that it COULD.  I don't think enough of the spoiler out could confirm it either way yet though I'm doing my dardnest to stay away from big spoilers.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 03 mars 2011 - 03:32 .

[FearTheLiving]

Saibh wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

W/E I'm done have fun making excuses for a stupid idea.

One that you have trouble comprehending is not stupid.

Apparently you don't get the issue everyone has with it. I understand just fine what Bioware is trying to do it's just stupid.

[Fenn_]

Ryzaki wrote...

So Cassandra's just going to stand there and let Varric lie to her from the jump? Despite the intimidating way he was dragged in? Alrighty then there's no resolving this. Because we all know you're dragged into a inquisition, your questioner gives you freedom to lie without being called on it til some time later despite demanding you start telling her everything. Yup. Totally. 

To be fair she doesen't allow him to lie for long.

[MorningBird]

makenzieshepard wrote...

MorningBird we don't need that kind of logical thinking here!

Well fine then. *packs up logic and departs*

Modifié par MorningBird, 03 mars 2011 - 03:32 .

[slimgrin]

Saibh wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

Did you not read your own post? Did you not just quote someone saying the legend is your character being an overpowered bad ass.

But that isn't who you actually are.

Is it really that hard to comprehend? 

The badass, exaggerated Hawke is not your Hawke, but their idea of your Hawke.

Your Hawke had another sibling, a mother, found Aveline, a sibling died, Wesley died, you had maybe three talents, and you were vastly underpowered in comparison. You were saved by Flemeth, you didn't have fancy armor, you were running for your life.

Therefore, all of this should indicate to you that the exaggerated person is not your Hawke. It's somewhat similar, but it is your legacy, your legend, not you yourself in how you were in reality.

You seem to be arguing here for a fixed pc.

[Saibh]

Ryzaki wrote...

So Cassandra's just going to stand there and let Varric lie to her from the jump? Despite the intimidating way he was dragged in? Alrighty then there's no resolving this. Because we all know you're dragged into a inquisition, your questioner gives you freedom to lie without being called on it til some time later despite demanding you start telling her everything. Yup. Totally.

Well, Cassandra's certainly willing to talk to him for ten minutes and explain the situation.

As I've iterated so many times, he doesn't need to actually describe his appearance. If you're seeing the Legend, you're seeing the Legendary version. He doesn't need to say "And this is the Public Domain version of Hawke." But, since you're being told the Legend, the game shows you what a live-action adaptation of the Legend would look like.

Modifié par Saibh, 03 mars 2011 - 03:33 .

[Saibh]

slimgrin wrote...

You seem to be arguing here for a fixed pc.

For the exaggerated portion that is not true to what actually happens and helps establishes the framed narrative? Why is this a problem?

Exaggerated Hawke =/= Your Hawke

Most of the game is not spent in the exaggerated part.

[mesmerizedish]

slimgrin wrote...

Saibh wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

Did you not read your own post? Did you not just quote someone saying the legend is your character being an overpowered bad ass.

But that isn't who you actually are.

Is it really that hard to comprehend? 

The badass, exaggerated Hawke is not your Hawke, but their idea of your Hawke.

Your Hawke had another sibling, a mother, found Aveline, a sibling died, Wesley died, you had maybe three talents, and you were vastly underpowered in comparison. You were saved by Flemeth, you didn't have fancy armor, you were running for your life.

Therefore, all of this should indicate to you that the exaggerated person is not your Hawke. It's somewhat similar, but it is your legacy, your legend, not you yourself in how you were in reality.

You seem to be arguing here for a fixed pc.

No. She's arguing that exaggerated Hawke is a fixed PC.

[Ryzaki]

Fenn wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

So Cassandra's just going to stand there and let Varric lie to her from the jump? Despite the intimidating way he was dragged in? Alrighty then there's no resolving this. Because we all know you're dragged into a inquisition, your questioner gives you freedom to lie without being called on it til some time later despite demanding you start telling her everything. Yup. Totally. 

To be fair she doesen't allow him to lie for long.

True but to me the fact that she calls BS after he's described Carver and Hawke (who may not look anything like she was told), after they've blown up hordes of darkspawn and were saved by Flemeth is ugh. It clashes so badly with the rest of the inquistion scene to me. The knife throgh the book thing and the "Start talking dwarf." made me think Varric was in deep s***. Her later actions just made me go. "Meh."