706 réponses à ce sujet

[AegisTemplar]

I think its good as it gives players a taste of how actiony the combat will be later on in the game... rather than having them drone it out. Although DA:O mage beginning was much more to my fancy ;3

[Ziggeh]

tmp7704 wrote...

The motive was simply to allow player immediately start exploding darkspawn, without having to play with character creator slider first. That's as result of gathered metrics which showed many people gave up on playing DAO just after couple hours or so.

That's what the lead designer said in interview on this subject, anyway.

Surely that's covered by having a default face? I can kind of see it, though from a strange and unfamiliar perspective, that initially you might want as few barriers as possible between "new game" and some awesome.

Thinking about it, they have rather carefully hidden most of the other intial selection business within the gameplay. A sort of mechanics version of in media res.

[Ryzaki]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And lest not forget the Champion is described perfectly if you choose default Hawke.

This fact alone destroys about every attempt to defend this irritating choice. 

Exactly. This legend and public thing is just...it makes no sense. They can recongnize default perfectly but anything else is erased from everyone's memory? 

[Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens wrote...

lol BDF is pathetic.

Like, have some sort of personal opinon, jeebus! It's like some of you are mindless robots created to promote Bioware games.

I was going to stay out of this, but this just irks me. How do you know that Saibh or anyone else don't, you know, actually believe what they are writing? "You're blindly defending X" is a lame cop-out used to trivilalize the other person's opinion. 

The point is that I don't believe they are blindly defending at all. For some reason, a few posters here believe they have to justify everything Bioware does because they like their games.

The thing is, we all like at least one of their games, that's why we're here. Howver, it's possible to like their games and still think some of the ideas are ridiculous.

Having to play with a character model that doesn't look anything like the one we created doesn't make any sense and that's ok! The fanatics get bent out of shape when you say that maybe "mandatory Hawke" wasn't that great of an idea and it is really, really annoying. 

It's not that people who are against aren't comprehending the way Bioware and the BDF wants to justify it, it's that it simply doesn't make any sense when you don't suspend your disbelief in order to maintain this mental image of a perfect game-making company that doesn't really exist.

Modifié par Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens, 03 mars 2011 - 04:02 .

[tmp7704]

FearTheLiving wrote...

I have to admit once I saw "There is no public.." I yelled out only Zuul.

Oh great, now i picture Cassandra standing in doorway in nothing but see-through silks, and inquiring a bespectacled dwarf, "Are you... the Storyteller?"

thanks

[Ryzaki]

Saibh wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Except of course we're not seeing the public's idea.

Says who, you?

Varric is telling the Legend, and you are seeing the Legend. So what if it occurs outside of Cassandra's head? If he doesn't explicitly explain what he looks like, the idea of him fills the blank.

And lest not forget the Champion is described perfectly if you choose default Hawke.

I already said that BioWare filled in something similar to what the public would think of, and you have the option to play as that. Pretend you have the option to play as any face in the world

Considering the fact that you know that's not physical description and often not during exaggeration sequences it's pobably glossed over. However if you're trying to find someone it's sort of handy to know what they look like. Just saying 

There is no public. There is only Varric and Cassandra. We are seeing one of their descriptions of Hawke. If the whole public excue wanted to fly this should be a group of peasants talking excitedly about Hawke's legend not a seeker and his friend/rival discussing him so that the seeker could find him. 

The only people insisting that the retelling has to be only what Varric and Cassandra imagine is you. It really isn't that hard to think "I'm seeing the oft-repeated version (with perhaps a few embellishments) of the tale, not the real thing". Cassandra is being told the tale, therefore she is imagining the folklore version for a few minutes, before interrupting him and demanding he stop lying.

We've been told in previews a hundred times that the exaggerated part is the ultimate badass that people think of when they think of Hawke, not what really happens.

My argument is that the exaggerated legend extends to his face, the one they've never seen.

You your whole arguement iscompletely invalidated by the fact that if you choose the default face Varric's description, the public's "legend" all of that is perfectly accurate. 

[Saibh]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And lest not forget the Champion is described perfectly if you choose default Hawke.

This fact alone destroys about every attempt to defend this irritating choice. 

Hawke's specific appearance does not matter to the public. They might have an idea that he is white, because Fereldans are white, and maybe most of them see him as dark haired, who the hell knows?

But the thing is, BioWare couldn't shove in floating text saying 'HAWKE IS SUPPOSED TO LOOK STRONG AND HANDSOME AND POSSIBLY WHITE TO THE PEOPLE OF THEDAS' instead of a body. They had to choose a face. The face they chose was one that matched the criteria the public had of Hawke. You can look like that, and it's not some incredibly uncanny coincidence that you happen to match exactly up with what the hivemind thinks of you--why? Because there is no hivemind.

BioWare picked an appearance. You can look like that appearance.

[Fenn_]

Ryzaki wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And lest not forget the Champion is described perfectly if you choose default Hawke.

This fact alone destroys about every attempt to defend this irritating choice. 

Exactly. This legend and public thing is just...it makes no sense. They can recongnize default perfectly but anything else is erased from everyone's memory? 

I'm just curious do we even know if it stays as default hawke for all the later exaggerations?  

Modifié par Fenn , 03 mars 2011 - 04:04 .

[Punahedan]

Ryzaki wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And lest not forget the Champion is described perfectly if you choose default Hawke.

This fact alone destroys about every attempt to defend this irritating choice. 

Exactly. This legend and public thing is just...it makes no sense. They can recongnize default perfectly but anything else is erased from everyone's memory? 

Or maybe Hawke is actually really that goodlooking. Sometimes heroes do look like heroes. Sometimes you have Ugly Shepard saving the galaxy. The actual appearance of Hawke doesn't actually mean anything for the myth surrounding him. If your Hawke is that pretty, congrats! You get a gold star.

[Ryzaki]

Fenn wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And lest not forget the Champion is described perfectly if you choose default Hawke.

This fact alone destroys about every attempt to defend this irritating choice. 

Exactly. This legend and public thing is just...it makes no sense. They can recongnize default perfectly but anything else is erased from everyone's memory? 

I'm just curious do we even know if it stays as default hawke for all the later exaggerations?  

I made a thread about that a week ago at least an no one has ever responded. Honestly if I keep switching to default I might have to wait for a mod to fix that.

[Ziggeh]

Saibh wrote...


The only people insisting that the retelling has to be only what Varric and Cassandra imagine is you. It really isn't that hard to think "I'm seeing the oft-repeated version (with perhaps a few embellishments) of the tale, not the real thing". Cassandra is being told the tale, therefore she is imagining the folklore version for a few minutes, before interrupting him and demanding he stop lying.

I think it would be an active problem to make it explicit exactly where and how the gameplay takes place. Be it Varric describing, Cassandra imagining or in the air between them. I think it's vital that the player decide that for themselves, to suit the approach they have of both the game and the framed narrative.

The innacurate descriptions could be covered by any of them.

[Ryzaki]

Hawkeyed Cai Li wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

TheRealJayDee wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

And lest not forget the Champion is described perfectly if you choose default Hawke.

This fact alone destroys about every attempt to defend this irritating choice. 

Exactly. This legend and public thing is just...it makes no sense. They can recongnize default perfectly but anything else is erased from everyone's memory? 

Or maybe Hawke is actually really that goodlooking. Sometimes heroes do look like heroes. Sometimes you have Ugly Shepard saving the galaxy. The actual appearance of Hawke doesn't actually mean anything for the myth surrounding him. If your Hawke is that pretty, congrats! You get a gold star.

...I love the logic twisting to make the whole public image view work. 

They don't know what Hawke looks like...until they magically do 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 03 mars 2011 - 04:06 .

[tmp7704]

Saibh wrote...

They had to choose a face.

would make way better legendary Hawke, tbh.

[Fenn_]

They didn't have to choose a face a hood or helmet could of worked.

[Saibh]

Ryzaki wrote...

You your whole arguement iscompletely invalidated by the fact that if you choose the default face Varric's description, the public's "legend" all of that is perfectly accurate. 

So.

Did you forget my post here, that directly addresses what you're saying?

Oh, and my post here, deliberately saying Hawke might never have been described by Varric.

And, hey, so what if he is? Maybe Varric thinks that's the perfect look for a Champion. I don't really care.

But let's refer back to this post, where I explain again, it doesn't really matter if you look exactly like the exaggerated version, because what the exaggerated version looks like doesn't matter.

[Ziggeh]

Ryzaki wrote...

You your whole arguement iscompletely invalidated by the fact that if you choose the default face Varric's description, the public's "legend" all of that is perfectly accurate. 

How so? In that case the public perception happens to match reality. He just happens to be the baddass bearded white guy everyone got the general impression he was.

[Ryzaki]

tmp7704 wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

I have to admit once I saw "There is no public.." I yelled out only Zuul.

Oh great, now i picture Cassandra standing in doorway in nothing but see-through silks, and inquiring a bespectacled dwarf, "Are you... the Storyteller?"

thanks

Whose Zuul? 

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

It's all likely because the canon Hawke will look like the pre-rendered characters in future franchise releases.

[Ryzaki]

Saibh wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

You your whole arguement iscompletely invalidated by the fact that if you choose the default face Varric's description, the public's "legend" all of that is perfectly accurate. 

So.

Did you forget my post here, that directly addresses what you're saying?

Oh, and my post here, deliberately saying Hawke might never have been described by Varric.

And, hey, so what if he is? Maybe Varric thinks that's the perfect look for a Champion. I don't really care.

But let's refer back to this post, where I explain again, it doesn't really matter if you look exactly like the exaggerated version, because what the exaggerated version looks like doesn't matter.

If the exaggerated version doesn't matter why does the exaggerated version look just like default Hawke? You're telling me the public all shares this view of Hawke and he happens to look like Default? Theres nothing strange or unique about him other than skill? He doesn't look unnormal? Really? I'm expected to believe that's a legendary figure? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 03 mars 2011 - 04:13 .

[Fenn_]

Ryzaki wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

I have to admit once I saw "There is no public.." I yelled out only Zuul.

Oh great, now i picture Cassandra standing in doorway in nothing but see-through silks, and inquiring a bespectacled dwarf, "Are you... the Storyteller?"

thanks

Whose Zuul? 

It's a ghost in ghost busters I think.

[TheRealJayDee]

Saibh wrote...

We've been told in previews a hundred times that the exaggerated part is the ultimate badass that people think of when they think of Hawke, not what really happens.

My argument is that the exaggerated legend extends to his face, the one they've never seen.

But even if I accepted that reasoning, how would that be anything but frustrating for me as the player? As a passionate creator of characters? No matter how handsome, how ugly, how memorable, how interesting, how unique a character I create, in the end (which means a maximum of a few years after the rise to power) the people of Thedas will think of default Hawke? Except when I played default Hawke from the beginning?

Sucks...

[Saibh]

Ziggeh wrote...

I think it would be an active problem to make it explicit exactly where and how the gameplay takes place. Be it Varric describing, Cassandra imagining or in the air between them. I think it's vital that the player decide that for themselves, to suit the approach they have of both the game and the framed narrative.

The innacurate descriptions could be covered by any of them.

I don't mind if you don't like this approach. What bugs me is the people claiming it doesn't make any sense, when I personally think I've come up with valid counterarguments to every accusation thrown at me.

Saying "I think the story would have worked better if..." is fine. Saying "I wish I could play as my character instead", also fine. Saying that this doesn't make any sense and BioWare is stupid for doing this is annoying, because I think it's perfectly valid.

[Saibh]

TheRealJayDee wrote...

But even if I accepted that reasoning, how would that be anything but frustrating for me as the player? As a passionate creator of characters? No matter how handsome, how ugly, how memorable, how interesting, how unique a character I create, in the end (which means a maximum of a few years after the rise to power) the people of Thedas will think of default Hawke? Except when I played default Hawke from the beginning?

Sucks...

I don't have the slightest issue with most of them not knowing what I look like.

Besides that, maybe once all of this business is over, I'll actually sit down for a portrait.

[Ryzaki]

Fenn wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

I have to admit once I saw "There is no public.." I yelled out only Zuul.

Oh great, now i picture Cassandra standing in doorway in nothing but see-through silks, and inquiring a bespectacled dwarf, "Are you... the Storyteller?"

thanks

Whose Zuul? 

It's a ghost in ghost busters I think.

Ah. ...I don't remember ghost busters that well. 

Ah Saibh's so damn easy to troll. 

[Saibh]

Ryzaki wrote...

If the exaggerated version doesn't matter why does the exaggerated version look just like default Hawke? 

Am I taking crazy pills? I must be, because I've explained numerous times--oh, heck, I've even linked to those explanations!--why it could be.