706 réponses à ce sujet

[the scrubber]

Stanley Woo wrote...

The way we've chosen to do character creation in Dragon Age II is a little different than what you may be used to, but I think it works fine. Try it out and see what you think of it.

we would.... but the bloody game hasn't come out YET!!!!!!!!!!!!

ARGH need dragon age 2

[DarthSliver]

I dont see it as a problem as i see this thread as just a reason to complain about something.

Really people nitpicking again eh? I hope a mod does the right thing and locks this thread. This thread is just a reason to complain about something that really doesnt matter. Its pointed out that Varric is lying, your Hawkes story doesnt actually start until he mentions Ostogar and Lothering burning.

[Rune-Chan]

PinkysPain wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...
I fail to see the issue. In the beginning Varric is making things up, then he changes it to the truth. What does it matter that the made up Hawke and the real one look different? The first one isn't "real", you are playing a "fabrication" of Varric's imagination.

So why does he get so much right, but the ethnicity wrong? He thinks white people are more heroic?

I understand the technical reasons, but I don't understand this in game justification ...

Probably because the game uses the default Hawke and the default Hawke is white.

If the default Hawke was black would you still be complaining? I sincerely doubt it.

It's like saying KOTOR2 is sexist because they assume that Revan was a certain gender and you have to correct the person who says it via a dialogue sequence.

Or me complaining that Commander Shepard always speaks with a Canadian accent despite the fact that I am English and Shepard is not Canadian.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 01 mars 2011 - 06:29 .

[MKDAWUSS]

It's more or less shoehorned me into using the default face for sake of consistency.

[Zkyire]

PinkysPain wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...
I fail to see the issue. In the beginning Varric is making things up, then he changes it to the truth. What does it matter that the made up Hawke and the real one look different? The first one isn't "real", you are playing a "fabrication" of Varric's imagination.

So why does he get so much right, but the ethnicity wrong? He thinks white people are more heroic?

I understand the technical reasons, but I don't understand this in game justification ...

1) The Hawke in every single poster, image advertisement, and dev gameplay videos have shown Hawke as white.

2) Hawke lives in Ferelden at the start of the game - based on the British Isles (those times, read: white). Set in a vague medieval time. Travel during those times was expensive, slow, and dangerous. Peoples of different countries rarely mixed.

3) If you want to say that Hawke and his family are immigrants from another land (likely that Kirkwall wasn't their original home either. Say, somewhere like Antiva or beyond?), that's fine. But given that this is set in Ferelden and Kirwall, where their skintones are lighter, the "legends" - you will often find - will try to blend the characters of said legends to "fit" with the local ethnicity. It's why, for example (I really don't want to use this reasoning but it's one of the more dramatic ones) Jesus. He's described as "bronze-skinned", implying deep middle-eastern/south asian or even african descent. And yet in the West, he is portrayed as white, often with blue eyes.

If you want to change his skin colour, that's fine, but thus far, Hawke has always been portrayed as white, and within the context of the legend part of the game and from an out-of-game "historical/geographical" sense, that skin colour makes the most sense.

[Alodar]

DarthSliver wrote...

I dont see it as a problem as i see this thread as just a reason to complain about something.

Really people nitpicking again eh? I hope a mod does the right thing and locks this thread. This thread is just a reason to complain about something that really doesnt matter. Its pointed out that Varric is lying, your Hawkes story doesnt actually start until he mentions Ostogar and Lothering burning.

Different things are important to different people.
If being forced to play the opening of the game as a bearded white male doesn't bother you than good for you.
It does bother some people and they are voicing their displeasure in a very reasonable manner.

That's what these forums are for.

Alodar

[Naitaka]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...
*snip

Everyone should start out with male Hawke then because we all know that Lady Hawke doesn't exist as far as advertisment is concerned...

[panamakira]

Well it kinda sucks a lil bit if your Hawke has darker skin because the legend of the hero a.k.a "what everybody knows" has a Caucasian Hawke. Well yeah that's kind of......

Whatever.....I'll just skip that part fast.....

[Zkyire]

Naitaka wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...
*snip

Everyone should start out with male Hawke then because we all know that Lady Hawke doesn't exist as far as advertisment is concerned...

Way to ignore 11 out of the 12 lines I wrote.

[PinkysPain]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

PinkysPain wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...
I fail to see the issue. In the beginning Varric is making things up, then he changes it to the truth. What does it matter that the made up Hawke and the real one look different? The first one isn't "real", you are playing a "fabrication" of Varric's imagination.

So why does he get so much right, but the ethnicity wrong? He thinks white people are more heroic?

I understand the technical reasons, but I don't understand this in game justification ...

1) The Hawke in every single poster, image advertisement, and dev gameplay videos have shown Hawke as white.

2) Hawke lives in Ferelden at the start of the game - based on the British Isles (those times, read: white). Set in a vague medieval time. Travel during those times was expensive, slow, and dangerous. Peoples of different countries rarely mixed.

So why does he get the gender right?

All the advertising was male. The British isles were male dominated.

PS. I didn't ignore the rest of your post, it just wasn't part of the justification why the protagonist was portrayed as white.

Modifié par PinkysPain, 01 mars 2011 - 06:30 .

[Naitaka]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Way to ignore 11 out of the 12 lines I wrote.

Not to mention the beard, the hair style, eye colour, facial structure...the list goes on, skin colour isn't the only thing that identify a person you know? Alodar makes an excellent point. We're forced to go through the 5 minute sequence over and over just to get to the CC because they are afraid people who want to get right to the action have to press on accept once before the initial fight? They already removed customization of stats, skills, talents at level 1, I can only say I find Bioware's priority incomprehensible.

Modifié par Naitaka, 01 mars 2011 - 06:36 .

[Zkyire]

God damn, why are you guys cutting out bits and pieces?

My post was intended to be read as a whole.

You're ignoring entire chunks of it just to suit your argument.

[Sora Shepherd]

Seriously, is there anything people won't complain about.

[Eveangaline]

It would be a bit odd if it did that. Since it clearly lets us pick our gender and class before going in (since otherwise they wouldn't know what class/gender to put is in the exagerated part with) means they have to do SOME customization before the fighting begins. Which means they probably let us choose our looks there as well. It's just that we don't get to pick our stats and stuff untill after the exagerated bits.

[Alodar]

Sora Shepherd wrote...

Seriously, is there anything people won't complain about.

Tell me about it. Some people will even complain about people complaining about things that are important to them.

Isn't that just ridiculous?



Alodar

Modifié par Alodar, 01 mars 2011 - 06:33 .

[Kimarous]

I'm rather happy it happens after the first fight. I've lost many a Warden because of realizing that my build was crap.

[Count Viceroy]

It's a bit jarring to be honest. Though it's just the first few minutes. By the time the prolouge is over I will have forgotten about it already. For the next 50 ? hours it'll be my smexy custom hawke.

Modifié par Count Viceroy, 01 mars 2011 - 06:36 .

[AntiChri5]

You are complaining about Varrics fanfiction.

Seriously though, legendary figures always tend to change slightly. Especially when they were from an age before photography. Famous people from a long time ago were generally recognised by an item they habitually carried or a very distinguishing characteristic. That is, until they were important enough to get their face on coins. Yes, that is the reason we traditionally put faces on money - advertising.

There are two ways this can be handled, either make being a black person a defining characteristic (so that people would describe Hawke as "Hawke the Black Dude" instead of "Hawke the Champion") this means that the first thing that people know about him, and what they consider most important, is skin colour. Or they could have someone point out that Varric was bull****ting and demand the real story.

Ever thought that maybe the differences between default Hawke and your Hawke are what made her realise Varric was lying?

Modifié par AntiChri5, 01 mars 2011 - 06:42 .

[colejossart]

Naitaka wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...
*snip

Everyone should start out with male Hawke then because we all know that Lady Hawke doesn't exist as far as advertisment is concerned...

Off Topic:  That's why almost all of the actual gameplay footage the past month has been of Lady Hawke.  Sure Male Hawke got the cool CGI trailers, but Lady Hawke gets all the attention when it comes to gameplay.

On Topic:  It's a 5 minute (tops) intro.  Does it really matter that much?

[JohnstonMR]

Jzadek72 wrote...

madsabroo wrote...

There are these things and we call them bards.

Difference is, William Wallace looked like Mel Gibson because they needed an actor to play him. I don't see why Hawke would be remembered in story as a brunette, if, say, she was actually blonde.

I probably should have checked to see if anyone said this already, but oh well.  We don't really know what either Elizabeth I or Shakespeare looked like, much less William Wallace.  Elizabeth I had rules about how she could be painted, and it was death to protray her in any other way, so we have no images of her as an old woman.  One description in writing from a French ambassador paints a very different portrait than the paintings we have. 

Shakespeare's commonly-accepted appearance is based on a statue and paintings done years after he died, and cannot really be trusted.   In fact, most historical paintings can probably be taken with a truckload of salt, given that the paintings were paid for by their subjects, who probably insisted on certain alterations.

[AntiChri5]

Naitaka wrote...

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

Way to ignore 11 out of the 12 lines I wrote.

Not to mention the beard, the hair style, eye colour, facial structure...the list goes on, skin colour isn't the only thing that identify a person you know? Alodar makes an excellent point. We're forced to go through the 5 minute sequence over and over just to get to the CC because they are afraid people who want to get right to the action have to press on accept once before the initial fight? They already removed customization of stats, skills, talents at level 1, I can only say I find Bioware's priority incomprehensible.

How do you know that that is the reason behind it? They could be simply experimenting with different ways of telling a story.

[Naitaka]

colejossart wrote...

Off Topic:  That's why almost all of the actual gameplay footage the past month has been of Lady Hawke.  Sure Male Hawke got the cool CGI trailers, but Lady Hawke gets all the attention when it comes to gameplay.

On Topic:  It's a 5 minute (tops) intro.  Does it really matter that much?

Ask that after you go through the 5 minute intro the 24th time when you only want to make slight adjustment to your morph because  it looks different under in-game lighting.

AntiChri5 wrote...

How do you know that that is the reason behind it? They could be simply experimenting with different ways of telling a story.

Because they said it in one of the interview...? They want the players to be able to get right into the action when the only difference it would make for them is to press accept once.

Modifié par Naitaka, 01 mars 2011 - 06:47 .

[AntiChri5]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

God damn, why are you guys cutting out bits and pieces?

My post was intended to be read as a whole.

You're ignoring entire chunks of it just to suit your argument.

Welcome to the internet.

[colejossart]

Naitaka wrote...

colejossart wrote...

Off Topic:  That's why almost all of the actual gameplay footage the past month has been of Lady Hawke.  Sure Male Hawke got the cool CGI trailers, but Lady Hawke gets all the attention when it comes to gameplay.

On Topic:  It's a 5 minute (tops) intro.  Does it really matter that much?

Ask that after you go through the 5 minute intro the 24th time when you only want to make slight adjustment to your morph because  it looks different under in-game lighting.

Considering how sweet that five minutes is I probably won't mind

[MKDAWUSS]

IEatWhatIPoo wrote...

PinkysPain wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...
I fail to see the issue. In the beginning Varric is making things up, then he changes it to the truth. What does it matter that the made up Hawke and the real one look different? The first one isn't "real", you are playing a "fabrication" of Varric's imagination.

So why does he get so much right, but the ethnicity wrong? He thinks white people are more heroic?

I understand the technical reasons, but I don't understand this in game justification ...

1) The Hawke in every single poster, image advertisement, and dev gameplay videos have shown Hawke as white.

2) Hawke lives in Ferelden at the start of the game - based on the British Isles (those times, read: white). Set in a vague medieval time. Travel during those times was expensive, slow, and dangerous. Peoples of different countries rarely mixed.

3) If you want to say that Hawke and his family are immigrants from another land (likely that Kirkwall wasn't their original home either. Say, somewhere like Antiva or beyond?), that's fine. But given that this is set in Ferelden and Kirwall, where their skintones are lighter, the "legends" - you will often find - will try to blend the characters of said legends to "fit" with the local ethnicity. It's why, for example (I really don't want to use this reasoning but it's one of the more dramatic ones) Jesus. He's described as "bronze-skinned", implying deep middle-eastern/south asian or even african descent. And yet in the West, he is portrayed as white, often with blue eyes.

If you want to change his skin colour, that's fine, but thus far, Hawke has always been portrayed as white, and within the context of the legend part of the game and from an out-of-game "historical/geographical" sense, that skin colour makes the most sense.

The Amaranthine Gate Guard and Chasind peoples are two non-whites in Ferelden.