706 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Saibh wrote...

Who said it was supposed to be misleading? Us? This is our speculation.

My speculation has nothing to do with it being misleading. It has to do with the legendary Hawke needing a few key traits--that is, good-looking and powerful-looking--and it doesn't really matter what he looks like after that.

Why speculate at all though when the answer was given already?

http://www.destructo...ro-194232.phtml

Character creator isn't available from the beginning so the player has "no need to mess with dozens of facial sliders until [they] have already had fun with the game."

And that in turn is because:
"We saw a lot of people disengaging at hour one, hour two. Not pursuing it, right?" explains Laidlaw. "I think what it really spoke to is something RPGs have been wrestling with for a long time: that first impression"

the frame narrative is just conveniently there, making it easier to wave away why the player appearance actually changes.

[marshalleck]

FearTheLiving wrote...

If they use the default Hawke in all the exagerated parts then it seems as if Bioware was just being lazy and didn't want to mess with all the different choices and what not of your character.

Yeah, you're right. Totally lazy. Because the code and scripting and animating all develops itself, and Bioware couldn't be arsed to change it. Spot-on, champ. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 01 mars 2011 - 09:28 .

[AlexXIV]

Derrp wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Elsariel wrote...

It works for Jesus.

The popular image of Jesus isn't even plausible for a person of his region and era, and yet it persists.

Because the church couldn't have a jewish looking Jesus. Just like in many Hollywood movies supposed native americans or asian or even black people are played by white guys and gals who just look like they have been in the sun alot lately. I saw a docu on TV that depicts how european historians actually cheated on history. As in they let discoveries and proofs disappear so people would not get the wrong idea that for example african people are not just 'savages' but actually had a higher developed culture than europe at a time.

So unless some party does not have an interest to change history to better fit their political view it is rather accurate, there is no change necessary. And Hawke didn't die 2000 years ago either. He is probably actually alive during Varric's tale.

Your post wasn't very coherent and came out calling African people savages .. that's all I got out of it.

In which part exactly do I call african people savages?

[Saibh]

FearTheLiving wrote...

Yeah but lets say they use the deafult for all the parts Varric exaggerates and that those are 25% of the game that's a huge chunk of the game they just didn't do anything for your chacter. Oh and please don't be a smart ass this is just speculation after all becuase we don't actually know how it is in the game.

They're not going to be 25% of the game, don't be ridiculous.

And, no, it would not actually be "easier" to make it the same Hawke. If that was their concern, there wouldn't be a CC at all. All they'd need to do is impose one morph with another, and alter the skintone.

AlexXIV wrote...

That's the thing that disturbs me most. I don't understand it. It would not be any harder to make the exaggerated part with custom hawke. I have no clue why they did it and it drives me crazy.

I've explained many reasons. Other people have explained more. EDIT: And tmp provided (probably one of) the official reasons.

Derrp wrote...

So much controversy would have been avoided by simply allowing character customization beforehand. Default Hawke is default Hawke though .. there were swarthy people all over Ferelden in DAO so I don't think it's much of a jump from the way Hawke looks now to a brown skinned, green eyed, < insert hair color > Hawke being what you play through as.

People had lots of different looks in Ferelden, so Cassandra could have assumed he looked a lot of different ways.

A lot of controversy would have been avoided if Alistair never dumped you, either. This is a storytelling decision. Whether you boo-hoo about it shouldn't effect them.

Modifié par Saibh, 01 mars 2011 - 09:33 .

[Derrp]

AlexXIV wrote...

Derrp wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Elsariel wrote...

It works for Jesus.

The popular image of Jesus isn't even plausible for a person of his region and era, and yet it persists.

Because the church couldn't have a jewish looking Jesus. Just like in many Hollywood movies supposed native americans or asian or even black people are played by white guys and gals who just look like they have been in the sun alot lately. I saw a docu on TV that depicts how european historians actually cheated on history. As in they let discoveries and proofs disappear so people would not get the wrong idea that for example african people are not just 'savages' but actually had a higher developed culture than europe at a time.

So unless some party does not have an interest to change history to better fit their political view it is rather accurate, there is no change necessary. And Hawke didn't die 2000 years ago either. He is probably actually alive during Varric's tale.

Your post wasn't very coherent and came out calling African people savages .. that's all I got out of it.

In which part exactly do I call african people savages?

" As in they let discoveries and proofs disappear so people would not get
the wrong idea that for example african people are not just 'savages'
but actually had a higher developed culture than europe at a time. "

[HTTP 404]

this thread is racist.

[Shing Whale]

When people speak about Jesus most of them think Jesus was white. But newsflash! He was from the middle-east, so he couldn't be white.

I have no problem with Hawke looking default at the start. Why not use your imagination and think like this: Varric tells the story, but he says nothing about Hawke's appearance. Since the story is told to Cassandra, and it is shown through her mind Hawke looks like what Cassandra thinks he/she looks like. Whan Varic decides to tell the truth he begins with telling Cassandra how Hawke looks like.

[FearTheLiving]

marshalleck wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

If they use the default Hawke in all the exagerated parts then it seems as if Bioware was just being lazy and didn't want to mess with all the different choices and what not of your character.

Yeah, you're right. Totally lazy. Because the code and scripting and animating all develops itself, and Bioware couldn't be arsed to change it. Spot-on, champ. 

Thanks sport.

[Derrp]

Saibh wrote...

FearTheLiving wrote...

Yeah but lets say they use the deafult for all the parts Varric exaggerates and that those are 25% of the game that's a huge chunk of the game they just didn't do anything for your chacter. Oh and please don't be a smart ass this is just speculation after all becuase we don't actually know how it is in the game.

They're not going to be 25% of the game, don't be ridiculous.

And, no, it would not actually be "easier" to make it the same Hawke. If that was their concern, there wouldn't be a CC at all. All they'd need to do is impose one morph with another, and alter the skintone.

AlexXIV wrote...

That's the thing that disturbs me most. I don't understand it. It would not be any harder to make the exaggerated part with custom hawke. I have no clue why they did it and it drives me crazy.

I've explained many reasons. Other people have explained more.

Derrp wrote...

So much controversy would have been avoided by simply allowing character customization beforehand. Default Hawke is default Hawke though .. there were swarthy people all over Ferelden in DAO so I don't think it's much of a jump from the way Hawke looks now to a brown skinned, green eyed, < insert hair color > Hawke being what you play through as.

People had lots of different looks in Ferelden, so Cassandra could have assumed he looked a lot of different ways.

A lot of controversy would have been avoided if Alistair never dumped you, either. This is a storytelling decision. Whether you boo-hoo about it shouldn't effect them.

You really misinterpreted my post and appear to be trolling / trying to jab at people .. either way you're just looking like a douche.

[AntiChri5]

tmp7704 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Money takes time to circulate, and we don't know if Kirkwall produces it's own coins.

So do news given it's supposed to be "not modern" settings with modern media coverage. If champion is well known public persona to the point where he's supposed to have "public image" then i don't think it's unreasonable to expect the money also spread well enough by then. And Kirkwall is city-state so it'd be pretty normal for it to print its coin, just like our own equivalents did.

News spreads far faster then a new type of coin. Kirkwall is a city state, and it is entirely possible all of the city states in the Free Marches share a currency, since they are reffered to as a collective at times. We know that they band together during a crises.

[SkyWard20]

Jwlynas wrote...

I love the credit people are giving Varric. Surely what we're seeing is Cassandras vision of the story as being told by Varric?

The same way people have an image of King Arthur in their heads, or Jesus, or Saladin. We have an expectation of certain heroes and villains in our heads, and we're rarely accurate. Especially not when all we have is fables of the legend behind the man. Thats why movie adaptations are always put under fire by fans who always saw the Main hero/villain/side-character as something different to the movies end result.

If the tale Varric is weaving is going to flow at all, it'll be a rather swift descriptiong of hawke to get him to the action. You know the sort of thing.

"The hero of our tale, the dashingly rugged hero of Kirkwall, the champion of the land, the mighty Hawke, set off on his journey with his Sister, the valiant and well endowed beauty know as Bethany."

So far, all entirely subjective, with no descriptions. But, because some people are visual, they're setting an image in their heads of these two. Hawke is Cassandras idea of ruggedly handsome. Bearded, youthful but fierce, blindingly bright eyes, a sure swagger in his step. Bethany is a comely lass, but busty and kind, because she's the sister of the hero. She doesn't need to be a blonde bombshell, indeed it'd be rather against the archetype, so she isn't.

When Cassandra finally calls him on the ridiculousness of his tale, varric smiles slyly and them explains

"In truth, Hawke was never the bearded vengeful templar hewn from the stone. He was a blonde haired rapscallion, a joker even when it would be irresponsible, a nervous young thing with dark eyes and a rather unappealing face. Legends will run away with themselves though, and the people pictured his as this bronzed god. A pity too" etc etc.

Thats how legends work. Chinese whispers, to the point where the legend is more well known than the truth. You say that "yes, but that take thousands of years" but I'm going to say just two words. Chuck norris. Memetic badass, and certainly far more famous amongst some for the "Chuck norris facts" website than his string of cheesy movies or short-lived TV show, or indeed his Karate Career.

Now imagine, instead of TV, the internet, dvds and other methods of communication, all you have to go on is those facts, as told by a local bard. and you live in a world where Ogres roam free, Dragons exist and magic is fairly common place. Would all of those facts be so hard to believe now? And would you believe they are about a man now over 60, with grey hair and a wrinkeled face, or would you picture him as a 12 foot tall bronzed god with pecs of iron and muscles of pure steel?

I always thought those jokes were mocking his bad acting... I don't think I'd want Hawke to relate to him.

[Fuelreaver]

I HIGHLY doubt there are any more legendary Hawke moments after the intro guys...

While it makes sense at the start (and im perfectly fine with it) it would just be nonsensical and confusing to have anymore changes after Varric establishes the character (via the creation screen).

[FearTheLiving]

Saibh wrote...They're not going to be 25% of the game, don't be ridiculous.

And, no, it would not actually be "easier" to make it the same Hawke. If that was their concern, there wouldn't be a CC at all. All they'd need to do is impose one morph with another, and alter the skintone.

Still doesn't make any sense to not have the CC at the start could have just as easily thrown in a turtorial which would be the first 5 minutes rather then seeing some random guy I'm not going to be playing as. Oh and I'm sorry I was being so ridiculas because you know I'm playing the game right now so I automatically know what's in the game. -That was sarcasm in case you couldn't tell.

Anyways nothing I can do about it so just gonna wait till I actually play the game before I have a meltdown about something. Okay champ!

Modifié par FearTheLiving, 01 mars 2011 - 09:41 .

[AlexXIV]

Derrp wrote...
" As in they let discoveries and proofs disappear so people would not get
the wrong idea that for example african people are not just 'savages'
but actually had a higher developed culture than europe at a time. "

Well it was meant to be sarcastic. Thing is for a long time black people have been seen as 'not even human'. They didn't have the same rights as white people, etc. So historicans let for example evidences of early african cultures disappear. Simply because at the same time europeans would have lived in caves. So the whole 'superior white race' ideologism didn't work if it turns out at a time europeans were actually the cultural 'inferior' race.

[Vaeliorin]

It isn't the appearance that bothers me so much (Jesus, as others have mentioned, is the best example why) but the fact that Hawke will always be a dual-wield rogue, or a two-handed warrior.

If my Hawke is an archer (and only an archer), why does the popular legend of him talk about him running around with 2 daggers? It'd be like someone telling a story about King Arthur and his legendary maul Excalibur. Legendary heroes tend to be associated with their (often) legendary weapons, and the popular story getting that entirely wrong just seems far too unlikely to me.

[Saibh]

Derrp wrote...

You really misinterpreted my post and appear to be trolling / trying to jab at people .. either way you're just looking like a douche.

I was addressing the "so much controversy would have been avoided..." line.

So what if controversy would have been avoided? That's so completely irrelevent. No one is not going to play because they have to stay at the default version for a few minutes. There are several reasons why they chose to do what they did.

FearTheLiving wrote...

Still doesn't make any sense to not have the CC at the start could have just as easily thrown in a turtorial which would be the first 5 minutes rather then seeing some random guy I'm not going to be playing as. Oh and I'm sorry I was being so ridiculas because you know I'm playing the game right now so I automatically know what's in the game. -That was sarcasm in case you couldn't tell.

Anyways nothing I can do about it so just gonna wait till I actually play the game before I have a meltdown about something. Okay champ!

People have provided many many reasons why it does make sense. The official reasons make sense too: most people quite Origins after playing for an hour or so. They wanted you to be able to jump in, not mess around with sliders. There could be other reasons, and we guessed at them.

Modifié par Saibh, 01 mars 2011 - 09:43 .

[KezzieZ]

Well, to be fair, it is kind of fun to start on some action before going into the customization mode, even if it does lead to some unfortunate implications if custom!Hawke turns out looking entirely different.

[Elsariel]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Elsariel wrote...

It works for Jesus.

The popular image of Jesus isn't even plausible for a person of his region and era, and yet it persists.

I can't for the life of me figure out how you quoted me saying this.  I don't ever remember typing it and I can't find it anywhere in the thread. 

[Bobad]

Elsariel wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Elsariel wrote...

It works for Jesus.

The popular image of Jesus isn't even plausible for a person of his region and era, and yet it persists.

I can't for the life of me figure out how you quoted me saying this.  I don't ever remember typing it and I can't find it anywhere in the thread. 

A Jesus did it.

[Blumbum]

You people will defend any stupid decision Bioware makes. This is a bad move period.

[nijnij]

Anyway, if there's a toolset, my first mod attempt will probably be a mod named "cut the bull out Varric" to do away with the exagerated version that's really just a tutorial when you think about it.

[Critical Miss]

I like the idea of seeing/playing the mythologised Hawke, and debunking the myth with CC and onwards. This is the impression the demo gave me in regards to the Hawke as legend versus the real Hawke, which will be determined by the player.

[HTTP 404]

Blumbum wrote...

You people will defend any stupid decision Bioware makes. This is a bad move period.

what do you mean "you people"?

[Blumbum]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Blumbum wrote...

You people will defend any stupid decision Bioware makes. This is a bad move period.

what do you mean "you people"?