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[LPPrince]

Dave of Canada wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

The comments on the video itself is absurd, way too much swearing and threats of piracy like it means anything.

I haven't read them. Are they really that asinine?

To cover the thousands of comments.

A) Swearing and calling EA / Bioware dergatory terms.

 Said that they are one of only companies that do day 1 DLC which isn't true but ignore all evidence.

C) They claim that they canceled their preorder and will torrent it instead because they are tired of being "biowares [female dog in heat]" and they want to make bioware their "[female dog in heat]".

D) "Dragon Effect".

Try and say anything else except the above and you're reported for spam and downvoted by 20-30+

HahahahAHAHAHAHA.

Good thing I didn't expose myself to such vitriol.

I'm above reading stuff like that.

[WolfShapedBullet]

Was it ever flat out stated that Sebastian isn't a LI? As in: Jennifer Hepler: "Sebastian Vael isn't a LI."

took Chris's reiteration of the four LI's to be just that. I thought most of the speculation and hope for Sebastian as a LI was that when the four were announced they were only talking about the main game and not DLC? Unless I missed the direct NO...

[Tehnazzy]

Oblivionous wrote...

Was it ever flat out stated that Sebastian isn't a LI? As in: Jennifer Hepler: "Sebastian Vael isn't a LI."

took Chris's reiteration of the four LI's to be just that. I thought most of the speculation and hope for Sebastian as a LI was that when the four were announced they were only talking about the main game and not DLC? Unless I missed the direct NO...

That was what I was thinking too, but many seem to assume that the confirmed romances involves Sebastian too. I was thinking more like, since he is a DLC he wouldn't be included as part of the main romances, but we'll see how soon enough. Just a week to go (Or 6 more days for me) If he's not then, well.

Modifié par Tehnazzy, 02 mars 2011 - 08:10 .

[HolyJellyfish]

I've read through many, many of the comments posted on the video page and I do agree with one main issue.

It really is not fair that the DLC feels less like added on content and more like Bioware & EA chose to pull out 5 - 10% of the game (Sebastian & his quest, probably 10 years of his story, companion conversations, cut scenes, etc.) and extort $7 extra dollars from people who A) Can't afford the game right now(Waiting for the price to drop), Casual buyers, and C) Could not afford to pre-order before 1/11/2011.

I had the same issue with Shale. She CLEARLY was written into the actual story. She had an important role in the Paragon of her Kind story, she stood out as an important and interesting character, other NPCs interracted with her at the same pace as they did the "official" companions, and her presence gave deeper context into dwarven society / history. She wasn't an add-on. Shale was very much a part of the whole game, but was pulled to make more money.

Business savvy as that maybe, it isn't particularly fair in a bad economy from people who do feel rather exploited. Its like reading a book, and a damn good book, only to discover that a character and their interractions have been censored until you are willing to shell out five more dollars for the missing pieces.

It is too late now, but there needs to be a different perspective on how EA & the devs view DLC, or they could potentially disenchant and frustrate a lot of people to the point where those people would rather steal from the company (Illegal downloading) than send them money and gratitude.

[delikanli]

http://img195.images...8679ayghyl.jpg/

Modifié par delikanli, 02 mars 2011 - 08:22 .

[Yojimboo]

I understood them with the Shale dlc but pulling the same stunt again is kind of shameless.

[HolyJellyfish]

Yojimboo wrote...

I understood them with the Shale dlc but pulling the same stunt again is kind of shameless.

Agreed. Sebastian was evidently built INTO the game, but statistically pulled out for DLC. He's an optional character, like Fenris. Like freaking Isabela.

Imagine the outrage people would be having if it WERE Fenris who was DLC. Or Isabela. In replacement of Sebastian.

If Sebastian does turn out to be LI (which I highly doubt) ontop of being DLC, I will be disappointed. I am a very big fan of Bioware and it won't stop me from pre-ordering their games, but it will upset a lot of people who are new to their franchise or simply cannot AFFORD their games at full price.

We are in a poor economy. These sort of tricks aren't fair to a lot of people who rely on renting the game, borrowing it from a friend, or taking two years to buy it used with an additional shelled $7 to play "added" content that is actually detracted content from the game.

Whether this is Bioware's decision, EA's decision, or both companies... this is thin ice and tricky territory. Not to mention insulting.

[Yojimboo]

HolyJellyfish wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...

I understood them with the Shale dlc but pulling the same stunt again is kind of shameless.

Agreed. Sebastian was evidently built INTO the game, but statistically pulled out for DLC. He's an optional character, like Fenris. Like freaking Isabela.

Imagine the outrage people would be having if it WERE Fenris who was DLC. Or Isabela. In replacement of Sebastian.

If Sebastian does turn out to be LI (which I highly doubt) ontop of being DLC, I will be disappointed. I am a very big fan of Bioware and it won't stop me from pre-ordering their games, but it will upset a lot of people who are new to their franchise or simply cannot AFFORD their games at full price.

We are in a poor economy. These sort of tricks aren't fair to a lot of people who rely on renting the game, borrowing it from a friend, or taking two years to buy it used with an additional shelled $7 to play "added" content that is actually detracted content from the game.

Whether this is Bioware's decision, EA's decision, or both companies... this is thin ice and tricky territory. Not to mention insulting.

I don't really care that much about Bioware DLC's, from my perspektive they where all medicore at best. The only company that pulls of good to fantastic DLC's is Rockstar.

Modifié par Yojimboo, 02 mars 2011 - 09:02 .

[HolyJellyfish]

Yojimboo wrote...
I don't really care that much about Bioware DLC's, from my perspektive they where all medicore at best. The only company that pulls of good to fantastic DLC's is Rockstar.

I was very pleased with Mass Effect's Overlord and Shadowbroker. The DLC characters seemed pointless in the scheme of things (Its a little weird that Shepard and only Shepard acknowledges Kasumi & Zaeed), but Overlord was probably the best ME2 mission period.

[Thor Rand Al]

Soooooo needs to be romanceable

I've liked him since the first announcement of him came out.  That accent, that face, *sigh*.  Definitely on my team

[Rhys1984]

Sebastion would have to be my favourite character thus far, with anders a very close second. they both look awesome, i really love sebastion's white armour and his overall look and accent, I hope he's kind of like nathaniel, a bit grumpy, but a good guy at heart, possibly this time with a more vengeance seeking bent. i'm going to love raining white light zinging arrows of doom down with him.

[LightningSamus]

Not a problem for me, i pre ordered before January 11th so i'll get it free.

[RyuKaiser]

Inarborat wrote...

LightningSamus wrote...

Not a problem for me, i pre ordered before January 11th so i'll get it free.

Heh, even with paying the extortion fee of $7, my grand total will becoming to $42 for everything.  Takes a bit of the sting out from not even having the option to purchase the Signature Edition.

Good sir, if you could hook me up with this, I would likely go down the same road you do. I believe it was on sale on Amazon for $50, though it's not there anymore. I just wish that Bioware would see how terrible the signature edition thing is, and make it Day 1 DLC for everyone who pre-ordered the game.

As for the comments on there, they have the right to be erked about it. Most of the community just TORE into that video so there must be SOME backing to what they say. I have largely the same views, and the fact it's only free for Signature Edition is what caused me to cancel my plans to pre-order the game, and instead wait for the Ultimate Edition. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but that's what this entire deal has done to me.

DA2's demo was my first DA. I bought DA:O back during the Steam Sale, but never played it. I got hyped after playing the demo... started playing DA:O, enjoyed it, went to pre-order... found out about signature edition... and stopped. I believe it's not fair to those that didn't even know about the frelling Signature Edition. I mean, I'm still pre-ordering, right? So why do I have to pay $7 for it?

[LPPrince]

HolyJellyfish wrote...
Shale was very much a part of the whole game, but was pulled to make more money.

Before you go around saying how much you hate this business strategy and that business tactic, get your facts straight. (I hope I'm not coming off antagonistic or malicious as that's not my intent)

Shale was being made to be part of the main game, but eventually had to be cut due to time constraints(much like the Human Commoner Origin that was to be part of DAO).

This was at the time when DAO was to be PC only. When they decided to port it to consoles, they had many extra months till the new release date.

In that time, they decided to bring back Shale, finish up her story and everything that had to do with her integration to the plot, and added her in as Day One DLC(since the PC version was already complete so they couldn't just put her into the existing game).

That's why she was free to those who bought the game new.

The reason some people had to pay for her is because the devs had to do extra work to get her ready in time, and they deserve compensation. And what better compensation than money?

As for Sebastian, Sebastian seems to be a character that was supposed to be included in the main game outright.

Since he is Day One DLC and free for those who pre-ordered in time, I am inclined to believe that this is a similar case to Shale's situation.

As any game developer will tell you, DLC's are not taken out of the main game so they can sell them separately.

(If you want to see DLC that is taken out of the game for an extra buck, look up the Black Dye issue with Fable III where you had to pay extra just to use the color black for your clothes)

Early DLC's like Sebastian are DLC's that were supposed to be part of the main game but couldn't make the cut. Rather than ditch them entirely, they decided to finish them up and release them later. The free charge being a thank you to those who pre-order/buy new(which makes sense since they were supposed to be part of the game anyway) and the charges of $5-7 being there for those who buy later(which makes sense because the devs are putting in extra work they wouldn't of had to to get the DLC's out).

Later DLC's like Awakening are DLC's that were definitely not meant to be part of the main game but were made to keep fans interested in the game and playing said game. Obviously those aren't free, but I don't need to reiterate why.

So before you go around saying, "I hate this" and "I hate that", you might want to see the situation from a game developer's point of view.

Gamers aren't the only ones a business has to think about when selling games.

[atheelogos]

LPPrince wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...
Shale was very much a part of the whole game, but was pulled to make more money.

Before you go around saying how much you hate this business strategy and that business tactic, get your facts straight. (I hope I'm not coming off antagonistic or malicious as that's not my intent)

Shale was being made to be part of the main game, but eventually had to be cut due to time constraints(much like the Human Commoner Origin that was to be part of DAO).

This was at the time when DAO was to be PC only. When they decided to port it to consoles, they had many extra months till the new release date.

In that time, they decided to bring back Shale, finish up her story and everything that had to do with her integration to the plot, and added her in as Day One DLC(since the PC version was already complete so they couldn't just put her into the existing game).

That's why she was free to those who bought the game new.

The reason some people had to pay for her is because the devs had to do extra work to get her ready in time, and they deserve compensation. And what better compensation than money?

As for Sebastian, Sebastian seems to be a character that was supposed to be included in the main game outright.

Since he is Day One DLC and free for those who pre-ordered in time, I am inclined to believe that this is a similar case to Shale's situation.

As any game developer will tell you, DLC's are not taken out of the main game so they can sell them separately.

(If you want to see DLC that is taken out of the game for an extra buck, look up the Black Dye issue with Fable III where you had to pay extra just to use the color black for your clothes)

Early DLC's like Sebastian are DLC's that were supposed to be part of the main game but couldn't make the cut. Rather than ditch them entirely, they decided to finish them up and release them later. The free charge being a thank you to those who pre-order/buy new(which makes sense since they were supposed to be part of the game anyway) and the charges of $5-7 being there for those who buy later(which makes sense because the devs are putting in extra work they wouldn't of had to to get the DLC's out).

Later DLC's like Awakening are DLC's that were definitely not meant to be part of the main game but were made to keep fans interested in the game and playing said game. Obviously those aren't free, but I don't need to reiterate why.

So before you go around saying, "I hate this" and "I hate that", you might want to see the situation from a game developer's point of view.

Gamers aren't the only ones a business has to think about when selling games.

Good post Prince.

[JustS]

Wow rating of 5.6 :-p

Mainly its because of the rants about DLC being done before the game is even released... which technically shows people that you made it and took it out of the game to make more $$ even if you did not....

Well thats capitalism. Just hope it doesn't come back to bite Bioware because of EA's choices.

So much anger over this...and very very bad press among the gaming community all over the place. Not just GT.

Mistakes happen.. but the main idea of promoting with this trailer has turned ugly, fast.

[Yojimboo]

LPPrince wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...
Shale was very much a part of the whole game, but was pulled to make more money.

Before you go around saying how much you hate this business strategy and that business tactic, get your facts straight. (I hope I'm not coming off antagonistic or malicious as that's not my intent)

Shale was being made to be part of the main game, but eventually had to be cut due to time constraints(much like the Human Commoner Origin that was to be part of DAO).

This was at the time when DAO was to be PC only. When they decided to port it to consoles, they had many extra months till the new release date.

In that time, they decided to bring back Shale, finish up her story and everything that had to do with her integration to the plot, and added her in as Day One DLC(since the PC version was already complete so they couldn't just put her into the existing game).

That's why she was free to those who bought the game new.

The reason some people had to pay for her is because the devs had to do extra work to get her ready in time, and they deserve compensation. And what better compensation than money?

As for Sebastian, Sebastian seems to be a character that was supposed to be included in the main game outright.

Since he is Day One DLC and free for those who pre-ordered in time, I am inclined to believe that this is a similar case to Shale's situation.

As any game developer will tell you, DLC's are not taken out of the main game so they can sell them separately.

(If you want to see DLC that is taken out of the game for an extra buck, look up the Black Dye issue with Fable III where you had to pay extra just to use the color black for your clothes)

Early DLC's like Sebastian are DLC's that were supposed to be part of the main game but couldn't make the cut. Rather than ditch them entirely, they decided to finish them up and release them later. The free charge being a thank you to those who pre-order/buy new(which makes sense since they were supposed to be part of the game anyway) and the charges of $5-7 being there for those who buy later(which makes sense because the devs are putting in extra work they wouldn't of had to to get the DLC's out).

Later DLC's like Awakening are DLC's that were definitely not meant to be part of the main game but were made to keep fans interested in the game and playing said game. Obviously those aren't free, but I don't need to reiterate why.

So before you go around saying, "I hate this" and "I hate that", you might want to see the situation from a game developer's point of view.

Gamers aren't the only ones a business has to think about when selling games.

Who the hell are you kidding about the Sebastian not getting into the final build? You know that people that purchased it before 11.11 get him free? So it's way before Bioware announced Gold status. Sebastian was a extra from the get go, if Bioware wants to convice me otherwise they probably think their costumers are a bunch of morons.

[Black_Warden]

LPPrince you're right on just about all of this post, but i'm gonna correct and/or comment on a couple little things

LPPrince wrote...

HolyJellyfish wrote...
Shale was very much a part of the whole game, but was pulled to make more money.

Before you go around saying how much you hate this business strategy and that business tactic, get your facts straight. (I hope I'm not coming off antagonistic or malicious as that's not my intent)

Shale was being made to be part of the main game, but eventually had to be cut due to time constraints(much like the Human Commoner Origin that was to be part of DAO).

Human Commoner Origin wasn't implimented due to the fact that they couldn't create a story for it that felt suffieciently original (HC pretty much defaults to the farm-boy-destined-for-greatness cliche), not due to time constraints.

This was at the time when DAO was to be PC only. When they decided to port it to consoles, they had many extra months till the new release date.

In that time, they decided to bring back Shale, finish up her story and everything that had to do with her integration to the plot, and added her in as Day One DLC(since the PC version was already complete so they couldn't just put her into the existing game).

That's why she was free to those who bought the game new.

The reason some people had to pay for her is because the devs had to do extra work to get her ready in time, and they deserve compensation. And what better compensation than money?

Not entirely correct. the reason some had to pay for Shale is because that DLC was used as an insentive to buy the game new, as developers make no money off of used game sales.

As for Sebastian, Sebastian seems to be a character that was supposed to be included in the main game outright.

Since he is Day One DLC and free for those who pre-ordered in time, I am inclined to believe that this is a similar case to Shale's situation.

As any game developer will tell you, DLC's are not taken out of the main game so they can sell them separately.

(If you want to see DLC that is taken out of the game for an extra buck, look up the Black Dye issue with Fable III where you had to pay extra just to use the color black for your clothes)

Early DLC's like Sebastian are DLC's that were supposed to be part of the main game but couldn't make the cut. Rather than ditch them entirely, they decided to finish them up and release them later.

This is true, but i can forsee some people saying "Day 1 DLC is not being released later! it was obviously done before launch and should be in the main game!" To those who are thinking this and about to post, read:
The content on the disc for any game is finalized 6-8 months prior to launch, at which point nothing may be added or removed without resetting that process. Sebastian + his quests were not finished in time for that content lock, as such, adding him into the main game would have resulteded in the game being delayed. i have heard (admittedly unconfirmed) reports of Exiled Prince content being worked on as recently as mid-february, which means for Seb to have been put in the game, DA2 would have had to have been delayed until roughly October.

 
The free charge being a thank you to those who pre-order/buy new(which makes sense since they were supposed to be part of the game anyway) and the charges of $5-7 being there for those who buy later(which makes sense because the devs are putting in extra work they wouldn't of had to to get the DLC's out).

Later DLC's like Awakening are DLC's that were definitely not meant to be part of the main game but were made to keep fans interested in the game and playing said game. Obviously those aren't free, but I don't need to reiterate why.

So before you go around saying, "I hate this" and "I hate that", you might want to see the situation from a game developer's point of view.

Gamers aren't the only ones a business has to think about when selling games.

As a response to the sure-to-come "Gamers pay their salaries, we deserve better!" that your last comment will garner:

No. I/you/we do not pay the devs salaries. EA is a publicly traded company, it's employees salaries are paid by the shareholders. you do not "deserve" anything. Bioware is making the game they want to make, how they want to make it. if you happen to enjoy the result of their efforts, pick up the game and whatever DLC interests you. if you don't enjoy their product, don't. simple as that.

[LPPrince]

Yojimboo wrote...

Who the hell are you kidding about the Sebastian not getting into the final build? You know that people that purchased it before 11.11 get him free? So it's way before Bioware announced Gold status. Sebastian was a extra from the get go, if Bioware wants to convice me otherwise they probably think their costumers are a bunch of morons.

Game content is locked many months before release. There was plenty of time for them to finish Sebastian's content between the time of Content Lock and release. That doesn't mean the DLC could be just put into the disk. It means its either not coming to us or it gets made into DLC.

And dude, relax.

[LPPrince]

Yeah, people need to realize that we as gamers are only a part of the equation.

Sure, we can decide to not buy their game. If enough people do that, developers and producers don't make money.

But guess what-

Developers can decide to not make games. Then players and producers suffer.

Producers can decide to not produce games. Then players and developers suffer.

People need to realize that developers and producers are people, just like us.

They've got time, they've got family, and they've got every right to spend it as they choose.

We have NO right to demand that DLC's like this be put into the main build of the game.

If content gets cut, it gets cut. Its on the developers to spend time away from home, working long hours in front of computer screens and televisions going through their mentally arduous and exhausting work day.

They deserve money for their hard work, and yet here they are, letting me get this DLC for free.

And you know what? Before the developers and producers were what they are now, they were just gamers, like us.

Now that they are on the OTHER side of the game development process, they know how two or even three sides see things.

So I'm more inclined to be on their side than someone who's only seeing things from one point of view.






Baaaaah. This is supposed to be about Sebastian's DLC. Now we're just going into "This is right, this isn't" territory.

Lets move on.

[Yojimboo]

LPPrince wrote...

Yojimboo wrote...

Who the hell are you kidding about the Sebastian not getting into the final build? You know that people that purchased it before 11.11 get him free? So it's way before Bioware announced Gold status. Sebastian was a extra from the get go, if Bioware wants to convice me otherwise they probably think their costumers are a bunch of morons.

Game content is locked many months before release. There was plenty of time for them to finish Sebastian's content between the time of Content Lock and release. That doesn't mean the DLC could be just put into the disk. It means its either not coming to us or it gets made into DLC.

And dude, relax.

I am cool but common do you really belive that Sebastian couldn't make it into the final build under no circumstace? I already told you i thought it was fine with Shale but common 3 times in a row? Shale Zaeed and now Sebastian? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!

[Black_Warden]

I'll brofist you on that LPPrince.

Now, to lighten the mood, someone a while back suggested that sebastien's bow be named Maria. I, for one, think that is brilliant, and can only hope it becomes ascended fanon.

[Rompa87]

LPPrince, you now have an admirer in me. Thank you for eloquently saying what my poor English skills cannot adequetly convey. There are two sides of all coins, and I am glad that someone takes the time and effort to look at both heads and tails