452 réponses à ce sujet

[Gibb_Shepard]

Rogue is teh gay. Twirling butter knives doesn't belong in DA.

[LPPrince]

Funny since those butter knives do more damage to single targets than a warrior could.

Or Archers, who can rain hell down on the entire battlefield and not even take a scratch.

[MasterShepard267]

LPPrince wrote...

Funny since those butter knives do more damage to single targets than a warrior could.

Or Archers, who can rain hell down on the entire battlefield and not even take a scratch.

Hell yeah! *high fives*

[Gibb_Shepard]

LPPrince wrote...

Funny since those butter knives do more damage to single targets than a warrior could.

Or Archers, who can rain hell down on the entire battlefield and not even take a scratch.

Yeah...

[LPPrince]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Funny since those butter knives do more damage to single targets than a warrior could.

Or Archers, who can rain hell down on the entire battlefield and not even take a scratch.

Yeah...

And stun the rest so they can take their sweet time on each enemy for a beautifully systematic breakdown of a battlefield.

To be honest, I don't normally defend dual wielders(I play Sword and Shielders, and now an Archer for DA2).

[Gibb_Shepard]

LPPrince wrote...

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Funny since those butter knives do more damage to single targets than a warrior could.

Or Archers, who can rain hell down on the entire battlefield and not even take a scratch.

Yeah...

And stun the rest so they can take their sweet time on each enemy for a beautifully systematic breakdown of a battlefield.

To be honest, I don't normally defend dual wielders(I play Sword and Shielders, and now an Archer for DA2).

Lol, when they get swarmed by enemies they're screwed, unless they run away with their tails between their legs of course. Then they'd probably go and make the 2H warrior a PB & J sandwich with those oh so wonderfully crafted butter knives.

[lazuli]

Graunt wrote...

lazuli wrote... you make it seem as if approach options are unimportant.  The shuffle step problem in DA:O proves that this is not the case.

No I don't, all I said was that they were the same as before besides the approach option.  How is that in any way downplaying movement?  It's not, and it's also not limited to the Rogue class.  

I haven't read the link yet, but I wouldn't be suprised if it's a bunch of complaining about how you now have to press a button to get a backstab, instead of it being automatic through flanking.  You're still just pressing buttons just like you pressed buttons before, and you're still relying heavily on auto attacking exactly the same as you relied on auto attacking before.  If anything, it's simply less tedious since the positional requirement seems to have been removed, but backstab already puts you directly behind them anyway.

Oh, nevermind, the link is to the talents I've already looked at. They look practically identical.  It doesn't matter if certain abilities have different names, longer cooldowns or require another cooldown, there's nothing that will make the Rogue "feel" any different at all over the Origins Rogue.  All they did was remove some of the dead zone.  I really don't know what you're arguing about anyway, all I said was that the Rogue hasn't changed, and it hasn't, and they changed dual-wield talents and "functionality" just because it was the only way they could make anyone care about a melee Rogue over a Warrior.  If you want to dual-wield, you now have to play a Rogue, voila, now the Rogue is super awesome!

I'm not going to argue tone with you, as it's entirely likely I misinterpreted what you posted. 

I think the Rogue has changed significantly through such things as auto-attacks, positioning (as you've mentioned), and the inheritance of other classes' domains (as you've touched on, but also including AOE crowd control).

But this is a sequel.  Do you expect the feel of a class to change that dramatically?  I'm fine with the feel of the Rogue in DA:O, but its gameplay had problems.  Auto-attacking was boring, but it was the way to victory.  The attack skills would slow you down and drain stamina you could be using to fuel the few useful skills the Rogue had.  I just don't think the Rogue's feel needs to change that much.  The philosophy behind the class should remain similar between iterations of the game, unless of course something in that philosophy was broken or needed to be improved.  Still, though, there are ways to build on a class' philosophy without revamping it entirely, ways to implement various aspects of that philosophy differently, which is what DA2 is doing.

I guess I'm not clear on what you're arguing.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Sora Kitano wrote...

SlayTheDragons wrote...

hayder's razor is a longsword(2H)...right, of course. i knew that:? haha so no DLC weapon for the rogue?

2H is a Greatsword. 1H is a Longsword.

Some scholars would tell you that in the time such weapons were actually used in combat, what D&D and most games since have called a "longsword" was often called an arming sword, and what D&D and most games since have called a "hand and a half" or "bastard" sword was often called a longsword!

[Killjoy Cutter]

lazuli wrote...

Graunt wrote...

lazuli wrote... you make it seem as if approach options are unimportant.  The shuffle step problem in DA:O proves that this is not the case.

No I don't, all I said was that they were the same as before besides the approach option.  How is that in any way downplaying movement?  It's not, and it's also not limited to the Rogue class.  

I haven't read the link yet, but I wouldn't be suprised if it's a bunch of complaining about how you now have to press a button to get a backstab, instead of it being automatic through flanking.  You're still just pressing buttons just like you pressed buttons before, and you're still relying heavily on auto attacking exactly the same as you relied on auto attacking before.  If anything, it's simply less tedious since the positional requirement seems to have been removed, but backstab already puts you directly behind them anyway.

Oh, nevermind, the link is to the talents I've already looked at. They look practically identical.  It doesn't matter if certain abilities have different names, longer cooldowns or require another cooldown, there's nothing that will make the Rogue "feel" any different at all over the Origins Rogue.  All they did was remove some of the dead zone.  I really don't know what you're arguing about anyway, all I said was that the Rogue hasn't changed, and it hasn't, and they changed dual-wield talents and "functionality" just because it was the only way they could make anyone care about a melee Rogue over a Warrior.  If you want to dual-wield, you now have to play a Rogue, voila, now the Rogue is super awesome!

I'm not going to argue tone with you, as it's entirely likely I misinterpreted what you posted. 

I think the Rogue has changed significantly through such things as auto-attacks, positioning (as you've mentioned), and the inheritance of other classes' domains (as you've touched on, but also including AOE crowd control).

But this is a sequel.  Do you expect the feel of a class to change that dramatically?  I'm fine with the feel of the Rogue in DA:O, but its gameplay had problems.  Auto-attacking was boring, but it was the way to victory.  The attack skills would slow you down and drain stamina you could be using to fuel the few useful skills the Rogue had.  I just don't think the Rogue's feel needs to change that much.  The philosophy behind the class should remain similar between iterations of the game, unless of course something in that philosophy was broken or needed to be improved.  Still, though, there are ways to build on a class' philosophy without revamping it entirely, ways to implement various aspects of that philosophy differently, which is what DA2 is doing.

I guess I'm not clear on what you're arguing.

That is not the impression of the rogue that I had in DA:O.

I'm still preplexed by all this talk of "approach options".  Someone is 37 feet away, and you have to run/walk to get there, and that's a problem?  How?  What do people want, The Leap of 100 Paces from some silly ninja or wire-fu movie?

[Swisspease]

They're not ninja, they're jedi using force jump.

P.S. rogues are awesome.

[wowpwnslol]

Not impressed by having to switch to melee when the enemy gets close to you. Going to make soloing almost impossible.

[tmp7704]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

What do people want, The Leap of 100 Paces from some silly ninja or wire-fu movie?

Every other rogue move in DA2 already is from some some silly ninja or wire-fu movie. Not seeing a problem.

[rma2110]

I just played a DA2 archer for the first time and fell in love. The pining shot alone is all sorts of awesome.

[Jesterthefool]

The archer so far seems awesome and packs more power than in dragon age origins (op?)

[Addai]

LPPrince wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Rogue was my 2nd favorite class after mage in Origins, but the changes lessen the appeal a lot.  The archer setup is good in that it's functional, finally!  The DW hamster on crack animations, no- can't play that.  I got a migraine just trying to follow that movement in the little intro.

IMO the changes were mostly about perception.  People who thought rogues were weak fighters just didn't know how to build a rogue.  Too bad the class had to be cartoonized for their sakes.

Don't like Isabela so it looks like Varric will be a staple in my party- which is not a bad thing.

What about Sebastian? He's the only other Rogue besides Hawke, Isabella, and Varric.

I didn't get the SE, remains to be seen if I'll get the Exiled Prince DLC or not.

[ColaQueen]

There are 1001 and one ways to kill someone with a butter knife my friends, my femhawkerogue plans to use them all.

Darkspawn, prepare to be spread!

[Killjoy Cutter]

tmp7704 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

What do people want, The Leap of 100 Paces from some silly ninja or wire-fu movie?

Every other rogue move in DA2 already is from some some silly ninja or wire-fu movie. Not seeing a problem.

That is the problem...

I'm starting to think I downloaded the demo for Dynasty Warriors VI by mistake...

[Addai]

SilverSentinel wrote...

There are 1001 and one ways to kill someone with a butter knife my friends, my femhawkerogue plans to use them all.

Darkspawn, prepare to be spread!

LOL My college roommate had a dream once that I killed everyone on our dorm floor with a butter knife.  True story.

They were her issues, not mine. 

Anyway it's more badass to slaughter the bad guys with a butter knife than to wail on an ogre with a humongous sword and not do any damage.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Lycidas wrote...

Wheeler515 wrote...

So when they say "Armed with Duel Daggers" does that mean that daggers are the only weapon option for DW characters??? No main hand long swords? I really hope that is not the case....

Only daggers can be dual wielded AFAIK...makes sense too

No, not really.  Historically, those who wielded dual weapons more often paired a long and a short weapon.  Rapier and dagger, for example. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

I have to say that I kinda like the archery rogue in the DA2 demo. Nice touch, pulling a dagger automatically as part of the melee animations when an enemy forces close combat.

[Maelora]

I kinda wanted to go with melee but I'm really put off by the power rangers thing.

The archer didn't seem so silly and over the top.

[Matroska]

Am I the only one who likes rogues because they steal everything that isn't nailed down (and if it is, they steal the nails then steal it)? And that it's a great way to play a non-good character without murdering everything in sight? I felt a little disappointed in DA:O with that element of rogues (though replaying as a warrior is really making me realise how many dungeon chests are locked) so now that DA2 is set almost entirely in a large city, I'm hoping for some cool housebreaking and pickpocketing diversions (like more expanded versions of the series of thief quests in Denerim).

Modifié par Teclo, 02 mars 2011 - 05:37 .

[SlayTheDragons]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Lol, when they get swarmed by enemies they're screwed, unless they run away with their tails between their legs of course. Then they'd probably go and make the 2H warrior a PB & J sandwich with those oh so wonderfully crafted butter knives.

not necessarily, there are several moves besides evade that can handle a swarm: miasmic flask, rush(upgrades to charge/blitz), fatiguing fog(my favorite so far) and stealth.

[SlayTheDragons]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

What do people want, The Leap of 100 Paces from some silly ninja or wire-fu movie?

Every other rogue move in DA2 already is from some some silly ninja or wire-fu movie. Not seeing a problem.

That is the problem...

I'm starting to think I downloaded the demo for Dynasty Warriors VI by mistake...

but then you see a dragon and know it's dragon age 2??? the only gripe i have, a minor one at that, is the spinning/cart-wheeling kick, but even that starts to grow on you. i don't mind the rogues kicking a flask towards enemies. that move requires alot of precision and i'm impressed hahaha

[Aradace]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Lycidas wrote...

Wheeler515 wrote...

So when they say "Armed with Duel Daggers" does that mean that daggers are the only weapon option for DW characters??? No main hand long swords? I really hope that is not the case....

Only daggers can be dual wielded AFAIK...makes sense too

No, not really.  Historically, those who wielded dual weapons more often paired a long and a short weapon.  Rapier and dagger, for example. 

It's called Flourentine Style and a style Im rather familiar with myself.  Im no master mind you but Im no slouch either lol.