452 réponses à ce sujet

[PSBlasius]

2Hard2C wrote...

Rogue looks... cool. Mage will still probably be the easiest, but at least the Rogue and Warrior can give the Mage a run for it's money in terms of fun gameplay wise.

Yeah. Mages have so much versatility. Distracting! I want my first play a bit more straightforward combat-wise. Because rogues seem relatively more specified to a certain role. (I said RELATIVELY, before anybody picks me apart...) I'd like to concentrate on the story and characters and lore and Marion Hawke's crazy, nimble acrobatics. (Although with an archer, that might be rather limited.)

[LPPrince]

Shooting arrows hurts my fingers.

Now I wish Sebastian had gloves to ease the pull of the bowstrings on his fingertips.

Varric's got that covered though, I believe.

(And damn it, I need to get some gloves)

[bobbyjoe123]

LPPrince wrote...

Shooting arrows hurts my fingers.

Now I wish Sebastian had gloves to ease the pull of the bowstrings on his fingertips.

Varric's got that covered though, I believe.

(And damn it, I need to get some gloves)

Im sure it wont matter for sebastion
you however are another story

[LPPrince]

bobbyjoe123 wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Shooting arrows hurts my fingers.

Now I wish Sebastian had gloves to ease the pull of the bowstrings on his fingertips.

Varric's got that covered though, I believe.

(And damn it, I need to get some gloves)

Im sure it wont matter for sebastion
you however are another story

Yeah. I actually exist. MAH FINGURZ.

Its not that bad. But still.

[PSBlasius]

LPPrince wrote...

Yeah. I actually exist. MAH FINGURZ.

Its not that bad. But still.

Have you ever tried a Hungarian reflex bow? A friend of mine have one and let me try it once. Now, I'm not an archer myself, so I might have actually done it all wrong, but the my point is... OUTSCH! Slapped the bejesus out of me! Couldn't flex my wrist properly for half a week. But you should try one if the chance arises, though, 'cuz it's awesome!  

[LPPrince]

PSBlasius wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Yeah. I actually exist. MAH FINGURZ.

Its not that bad. But still.

Have you ever tried a Hungarian reflex bow? A friend of mine have one and let me try it once. Now, I'm not an archer myself, so I might have actually done it all wrong, but the my point is... OUTSCH! Slapped the bejesus out of me! Couldn't flex my wrist properly for half a week. But you should try one if the chance arises, though, 'cuz it's awesome!  

Pfft, I've gone the simple route. I didn't want to try something overwhelming or something expensive I'd mess up.

51'' Longbow. I'm 68 1/2'' tall.

20 lb draw weight, so its super easy to pull back and the biggest thing its gonna kill is what, a pig? Groundhog? Small game. But I'm just using it for target practice.

Gotta get some skill before I move on up to serious archery.

[Never]

I love rogues, and always choose them first in any game they're included in, but UGH the DA2 leather (so far) is disgusting. I reeeally hope there are more than 2 options for styles, and that they don't all make Lady Hawke's beautiful body look like a man again.
But other than the armor, I'm super excited for the changes.

[Haasth]

Well, I am glad at least Shadow makes a mention of 'arrow'. I'm so expecting them to be sub-par for archery, but I'll gladly be proved otherwise. Please let there be a good archery specialization, please! Assassin sounds like it could also be useful for archery now though. Who knows. 

[etteling]

Well, I'm a bit late to this party. I didn't enjoy playing a rogue in the demo. And I have played rogue/thief in every game I've played where it was an option. Loved my DW cunning rogue in DA: O. The archery does seem to have been improved, but since I want Varric along and a mage, this means I need an off-tank for reasons of party balance. So, no archery rogue for me.

The rogue just didn't seem rogue-ish. Rogues aren't meant to be flashy, they're meant to quietly get the job done and sneak away. No stealth is a major drawback, but, to be honest, the major drawback is the fighting animation. And, maybe I was building it wrong, but my DA: O rogue was much more powerful than my demo DA2 rogue.

I guess I'll be playing a mage. That was fun to play.

Modifié par etteling, 04 mars 2011 - 02:08 .

[Abhorash]

Full rogue party, Sebastian,Varric,Me and Anders healing. archery ftw

[etteling]

Abhorash wrote...

Full rogue party, Sebastian,Varric,Me and Anders healing. archery ftw

Haha, full points for rogue commitment. I guess since the cooldown on Heal is so long, mages are more optional in DA2.

After playing the demo, I still have a lot of misgivings, especially about rogues. But, I still have DA2 on pre-order, and I will definitely build a rogue and see how it goes.

Incidentally, I read that the combat mechanics had changed. Does anybody have any links as to how? I split upgrade points between cunning and dex in the demo, but in DA: O I got dex up to 35 and left it. It seems like rogues should be more dex-focussed this time around?

[Abhorash]

etteling wrote...

Abhorash wrote...

Full rogue party, Sebastian,Varric,Me and Anders healing. archery ftw

Haha, full points for rogue commitment. I guess since the cooldown on Heal is so long, mages are more optional in DA2.

After playing the demo, I still have a lot of misgivings, especially about rogues. But, I still have DA2 on pre-order, and I will definitely build a rogue and see how it goes.

Incidentally, I read that the combat mechanics had changed. Does anybody have any links as to how? I split upgrade points between cunning and dex in the demo, but in DA: O I got dex up to 35 and left it. It seems like rogues should be more dex-focussed this time around?

Dex increase all rogue damage and cunning increase the crit chance and lockpick skill.

[etteling]

Abhorash wrote...

Dex increase all rogue damage and cunning increase the crit chance and lockpick skill.

Aah, thanks. I guess it's a more challenging level-up when you're required to properly balance two stats. Do you know if cunning will still affect coercion? Have Bioware released the figures, and, if not, when and where will they be available? Will it be in the strategy guides?

Thank you for answering my questions.

[Abhorash]

http://dragonage.wik.../Dialogue_wheel i dont see coercion here anymore.

[etteling]

Abhorash wrote...

http://dragonage.wik.../Dialogue_wheel i dont see coercion here anymore.

Nooo. That is my other favourite rogue thing. To talk my way out of battle, and amass valuable secrets.

[bodymodboy]

Can I just say that, as someone who often plays solely as a Rogue and other stealthy characters, especially archery...THANK YOU for making melee with a bow in hand possible. It was such a bother in DA:O to manually switch back and forth that I usually opted for Zevran or Leliana to do the archery and I stuck with dual weapons. Much more realistic this time. Thank you!

[Vohnn]

For people worried about lack of backstab check the first scoundrel skill, called blindside +120% dmg against target that isnt directly attacking rogue, also Twist the knife 100% crit chance vs stuned target, all passive:

http://social.biowar...1/index/6090138 (scroll down untill u find rogue talent trees).

[Graunt]

Lycidas wrote...

Graunt wrote...

They didn't have anything outside of combat in Origins either aside from lockpicking and pickpocketing.  The initial complaint made it seem like the Rogue was more in Origins than they are now, and they were not.

I'll miss the stealth scouting tho that was not exactly a pure OOC thing either.

Why is stealth scouting no longer an option?

1. Stealth
Requires: Level 3
The rogue fades from view, stalking
the battlefield. Enemies immediately cease attacking the stealthed
rogue, although any action beyond movement will break the cover.
Stealth chance: 100%
Movement speed: 60%
duration: 10s
Cost: 20 stamina
Cooldown: 30s
Type: Activated ability

2. Silent Running
Requires: Level 7
Requires: Stealth
Points required in Subterfuge: 2
The rogue no longer suffers a movement penalty while stealthed.
Movement speed: 100%
type: Upgrade

3. Camouflage
Requires: Level 9
Requires: Stealth
Points required in Subterfuge: 3
The rogue now stays hidden for longer, and dropping into stealth is less tiring.
Duration: +5s
Cost: -10 stamina
Type: Upgrade

4. Ambush
Requires: Level 4
Requires: Stealth
Points required in Subterfuge: 2
The
rogue executes an automatic critical hit if striking from stealth. This
ability also combines with other talents, such as Hail of Arrows or
Backstab.
Critical chance: 100% when stealthed
Type: Passive ability

5. Lingering Shroud
Requires: Level 6
Requires: Stealth
Points required in Suberfuge: 2
The
rogue is master of concealment. If the rogue is obscured and stealthed
at the same time, the rogue is able to take a single action, like making
an attack or using an item, while still maintaining stealth. Only the
obscure effect is lost. The rogue's second action will still break
stealth. When paired with other abilities that enhance stealth. When
paried with other abilities that enhance stealth, like Ambush or Shadow
Veil, this can be a powerful advantage.
Type: Passive ability


It's not going to have the infinite out of combat duration as before, but as far as we know it wouldn't be needed anyway with how the areas are setup now.  The one thing that I do not like though is how a lot of the "new" abilities are simply upgrades that make the base ability work how they worked by default in Origins.

I guess since the cooldown on Heal is so long, mages are more optional in DA2.

They are even more necessary than ever before because of crowd control (Nightmare). Besides that, the strongest theoretical group build right now seems like it would be Warrior (either SnS or 2h) for tanking, Archer and two Mages, one with all of the Spirit Healer abilities, one area of effect damage spell and some crowd control, and the other with a few offensive spells, an aura and some crowd control.

Chain Lightning and Tempest are going to be two of the most popular Mage spells for Nightmare simply because they don't friendly fire and get a gigantic boost from staggered enemies.

Modifié par Graunt, 04 mars 2011 - 04:00 .

[lazuli]

Graunt wrote...

They are even more necessary than ever before because of crowd control (Nightmare).

Do recall that Rogues also have significant crowd control potential, especially in the Sabotage tree.  If Shadow is anything like it was in Awakening, then that might be another area to look for crowd control.

[SlayTheDragons]

lazuli wrote...

Graunt wrote...

They are even more necessary than ever before because of crowd control (Nightmare).

Do recall that Rogues also have significant crowd control potential, especially in the Sabotage tree.  If Shadow is anything like it was in Awakening, then that might be another area to look for crowd control.

agreed, miasmic flask, fatiguing fog and confusion are all skills i would have my support rogue learn.

[Graunt]

SlayTheDragons wrote...

lazuli wrote...

Graunt wrote...

They are even more necessary than ever before because of crowd control (Nightmare).

Do recall that Rogues also have significant crowd control potential, especially in the Sabotage tree.  If Shadow is anything like it was in Awakening, then that might be another area to look for crowd control.

agreed, miasmic flask, fatiguing fog and confusion are all skills i would have my support rogue learn.

Yes, I know Rogues have "some" crowd control abilities, but they still don't touch what a Mage offers in terms of knockback and duration as well as as the sheer number of non damaging "useful" options and would be better served focusing on damage as well as causing enemies to attack the tank.  You could use a "support" Rogue, but they would still be ineffective compared to just using a Mage for that since Rogues already out damage Mages in general now.

Modifié par Graunt, 04 mars 2011 - 05:09 .

[Alchemist02]

Chris Priestly wrote... but when you could be a mighty rogue or fireball casting mage, who would want to be a Warrior?

I do not wish to derail this thread but this little is pretty much my thoughts right now, Why would anyone want to be a warrior atm? we'r only good for tanking and not everyone thinks tanking is good based on the demo 2 handed Dps SUCKS (seriously at the 2nd part of the demo with isabella a warrior with shield and sword has 133 DPS while a 2 handed warrior has 77?!) 

Either this is seriously fail on the demos part or bioware is detmerined to remove warrior DPS and force us to tank. 

Instead of feeling a juggernaut with a sword the size of a human i feel like a Tin can with a stick. 

Hell even in the part where we'r suppose to be ''larger then life'' our attack damage is a joke (albilitys are... well... albilitys) 

Modifié par BrotherShepherd, 04 mars 2011 - 05:11 .

[Graunt]

BrotherShepherd wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote... but when you could be a mighty rogue or fireball casting mage, who would want to be a Warrior?

I do not wish to derail this thread but this little is pretty much my thoughts right now, Why would anyone want to be a warrior atm? we'r only good for tanking and not everyone thinks tanking is good based on the demo 2 handed Dps SUCKS (seriously at the 2nd part of the demo with isabella a warrior with shield and sword has 133 DPS while a 2 handed warrior has 77?!) 

Either this is seriously fail on the demos part or bioware is detmerined to remove warrior DPS and force us to tank. 

Instead of feeling a juggernaut with a sword the size of a human i feel like a Tin can with a stick. 

Because a two-handed Warrior out damages a Rogue every time when hitting more than two targets.  Melee Rogues are more specialized for single target, Archers are not really specialized in either because they can do "ok" single target (it's on par with a two-handed Warrior who is only able to hit one target per swing) and Archer's Lance is phenomenal for killing a row.  Hail of Arrows seems more like a fast acting area of effect dot more than anything else.  Bursting shot also doesn't seem to pack as much of a punch as Fireball, even though it looks like they should practically be identical on paper.

You also need to stop looking at "DPS" numbers, because that's a silly way to judge how much damage the character is actually doing.  That's auto attack damage only.  In no way did Aveline out damage the two-handed Warrior unless you simply decided not to use any abilities.  They've also stated more than once that the numbers in the demo have been changed in the retail version, especially in regards to two-handed gameplay.

Modifié par Graunt, 04 mars 2011 - 05:18 .

[Alchemist02]

Graunt wrote...

Because a two-handed Warrior out damages a Rogue every time when hitting more than two targets.

Then your doing it very wrong. 


  

Graunt wrote.. (it's on par with a two-handed Warrior)

What, a rogue outdamages a warrior so badly its not even funny, seriously a rogue an chip off about 1/15 (yes im going a bit overboard here i know but im just trying to illustrate my point) of the enemies health bar while a 2handed warrior bearly chips off 1/20 how is this balanced? 




 

Graunt wrote.. You also need to stop looking at "DPS" numbers, because that's a silly way to judge how much damage the character is actually doing.

Then how exactly am i suppose to judge damage? if i am suppose to go by what i see then i should start writing an epic QQ right now, because what i am seeing is not right. At all. 

Graunt wrote..   That's auto attack damage

Which is kinda my complaint, Why is a 2hander auto attack so weak compared to a shield and board tank? I'd like to think that a giant sharpend sword would do more damage then a wooden circle with an enlarged kitchen knife. 


 

Graunt wrote.. In no way did Aveline out damage the two-handed Warrior unless you simply decided not to use any abilities.

Again thats the point of my arguemnt, strip away albilitys and use auto-attacks, aboev, WHY IS MY DAMAGE LOWER THEN HERS?! 


  

Graunt wrote..  They've also stated more than once that the numbers in the demo have been changed in the retail version, especially in regards to two-handed gameplay.

I damn well hope so, because if 2 handers are this weak in the real game im going on riot crusade to throw out biowares warrior developers and get them to get some actully compentent people. 

[SlayTheDragons]

Graunt wrote...

SlayTheDragons wrote...

agreed, miasmic flask, fatiguing fog and confusion are all skills i would have my support rogue learn.

Yes, I know Rogues have "some" crowd control abilities, but they still don't touch what a Mage offers in terms of knockback and duration as well as as the sheer number of non damaging "useful" options and would be better served focusing on damage as well as causing enemies to attack the tank.  You could use a "support" Rogue, but they would still be ineffective compared to just using a Mage for that since Rogues already out damage Mages in general now.

i agree. my support rogue was only intended to help slow down targets - they would still help out on offense with dual wielding or archery -  and not meant to replace the mage. a mage will definitely be in my party, as well as a warrior for tanking. the support rogue was my way of rationalizing having a second rogue (my main character will be a rogue) instead of a second mage. i'll have to read up more on mages to see if that's a good call or not.