452 réponses à ce sujet

[Graunt]

BrotherShepherd wrote...
Whining

You tell me that I'm doing it wrong, yet you're the one crying about how awful the two-handed Warrior was compared to the other classes, when that's simply not the case at all.  It's you who were doing it wrong, or you simply aren't processing cooldown times into your perceptions.  I've played all four builds a few times each and they are relatively balanced.  The melee Rogue does more single target damage and is eclipsed by the two-handed Warrior in area of effect.  What I stated wasn't simply an "opinion" when a developer backed the same thing up with numbers.  The Archer may take off more health per shot, but they also shoot slower than a two-hander swings.

It's quite clear from everything in your reply that you simply can't wrap your head around the "numbers" that Bioware claim are apparently too complex for the average player to deal with.  Until your post, I couldn't believe they actually thought this.

i agree. my support rogue was only intended to help slow down targets - they would still help out on offense with dual wielding or archery -  and not meant to replace the mage. a mage will definitely be in my party, as well as a warrior for tanking. the support rogue was my way of rationalizing having a second rogue (my main character will be a rogue) instead of a second mage. i'll have to read up more on mages to see if that's a good call or not.

That would probably work just fine for anything below Nightmare, although you'd probably be limiting your Mage to a healbot if you went that route.

Modifié par Graunt, 04 mars 2011 - 05:43 .

[SlayTheDragons]

Graunt wrote...

i agree. my support rogue was only intended to help slow down targets -
they would still help out on offense with dual wielding or archery - 
and not meant to replace the mage. a mage will definitely be in my
party, as well as a warrior for tanking. the support rogue was my way of
rationalizing having a second rogue (my main character will be a rogue)
instead of a second mage. i'll have to read up more on mages to see if
that's a good call or not.

That would probably work just fine for anything below Nightmare, although you'd probably be limiting your Mage to a healbot if you went that route.

darn, i was hoping the team i suggested would work on nightmare...

[Alchemist02]

Graunt wrote...

You tell me that I'm doing it wrong, yet you're the one crying about how awful the two-handed Warrior was compared to the other classes, when that's simply not the case at all.

And im telling you from where im looking at it even with albilitys im doing horrible damage compared a rogue or mage and i want to know WHY. 

The melee Rogue does more single target damage and is eclipsed by the two-handed Warrior in area of effect.

And what if AoE (Area of effect for you super smart people) is not the desired role i wish to play? and i'll give you a hint, ''Then this not the class for you'' is the wrong answer.  

It's quite clear from everything in your reply that you simply can't wrap your head around the "numbers" that Bioware claim are apparently too complex for the average player to deal with.

I havent been shown any math yet, just you talking, might want to think about providing said math before insulting people. 

Modifié par BrotherShepherd, 04 mars 2011 - 06:06 .

[Graunt]

SlayTheDragons wrote...

Graunt wrote...

i agree. my support rogue was only intended to help slow down targets -
they would still help out on offense with dual wielding or archery - 
and not meant to replace the mage. a mage will definitely be in my
party, as well as a warrior for tanking. the support rogue was my way of
rationalizing having a second rogue (my main character will be a rogue)
instead of a second mage. i'll have to read up more on mages to see if
that's a good call or not.

That would probably work just fine for anything below Nightmare, although you'd probably be limiting your Mage to a healbot if you went that route.

darn, i was hoping the team i suggested would work on nightmare...

Nightmare is looking like it's sadly going to only have one strong paradigm: Tank, Mage, Mage, Archer (or Tank, Mage, Archer x 2) thanks to melee hitting other melee now with friendly fire.  So if you were planning on your Rogues being ranged most of the time, it probably wouldn't be much of an issue, even though two Mages would probably be slightly easier.

I havent been shown any math yet, just you talking, might want to think about providing said math before insulting people.

You've already proven why you don't understand what's going on by fixating on a "DPS" listing.  That's almost entirely irrelevant.

Modifié par Graunt, 04 mars 2011 - 06:21 .

[SlayTheDragons]

Graunt wrote...

SlayTheDragons wrote...

darn, i was hoping the team i suggested would work on nightmare...

Nightmare is looking like it's sadly going to only have one strong paradigm: Tank, Mage, Mage, Archer (or Tank, Mage, Archer x 2) thanks to melee hitting other melee now with friendly fire.  So if you were planning on your Rogues being ranged most of the time, it probably wouldn't be much of an issue, even though two Mages would probably be slightly easier.

i was planning on playing a DW rogue... but for my nightmare run i guess i could invest majority of my points onto archery and leave enough for backstab and explosive strike - that's assuming we can easily switch between weapon types during gameplay. couldn't I use an SnB tank as opposed to a 2H to reduce friendly fire? SnB tank, mage, mage, DW? 2H tank, mage, mage, archer would be best, but i don't want to give up my DW...but i want to beat nightmare w/ minimum frustration...decisions, decisions haha

[Graunt]

One reason why Aveline has such a higher damage listing is because the weapons you start out with are not equal at all. Your two-handed weapon is only 10 damage, while Aveline has a 14 damage weapon. There's more to it than that though, because it appears to be nothing more than a display bug in the way the DPS is calculated.

If you equip a one-handed weapon that you pick up, your listed DPS literally doubles over that of what you had with the two-handed weapon even though it has a lower listed damage on the weapon itself.  If you look at how long it takes you to kill a basic Hurlock with a one-hander vs a two-hander, it's the same time.  

Another thing is that the two-hander hits multiple enemies at once with auto attack as long as your main target has an enemy close to the right or left of them.  One-handed weapons seem like they can do this too, but are much less effective at it due to not only having less of a reach, but less of a swing arc.

Modifié par Graunt, 04 mars 2011 - 10:28 .

[borelocin]

Experimenting with the demo, I will probably go Tank(Aveline)>Mage(Bethany)>Archer(PC)>Archer(Varric) for my first Nightmare run.

Tried with a 2hander warrior and a DW rogue in place of the second archer, was possible but I really had to pause and micro a lot to keep everyone out of each others swing arcs. On autopilot the party members aren't smart enough to not bash each other.

Modifié par borelocin, 04 mars 2011 - 12:59 .

[MadDjinn]

borelocin wrote...

Experimenting with the demo, I will probably go Tank(Aveline)>Mage(Bethany)>Archer(PC)>Archer(Varric) for my first Nightmare run.

Tried with a 2hander warrior and a DW rogue in place of the second archer, was possible but I really had to pause and micro a lot to keep everyone out of each others swing arcs. On autopilot the party members aren't smart enough to not bash each other.

of course not.

on auto-pilot, Bethany thinks the best place to drop a fireball is right on Aveline when she's surrounded by hurlocks.

They really need to put some more complex tactical thinking into the autopilot.  Like: "don't drop a fireball where you'll kill your party!"

Save that for the player

[Maverick827]

Last night I ran through the demo on Nightmare with a melee Rogue, and I noticed that I was taking a lot of damage, even when Aveline had every enemy on her. It looked as if all/many enemies on Nightmare had a frontal cleave. Has anyone else noticed this?

[Akhilles]

The demo was a blast as a rogue, FINALLY you can appear behind for the backstab instead of trying to chase them around incessantly trying to backstab!

[Alchemist02]

Graunt wrote...

You've already proven why you don't understand what's going on by fixating on a "DPS" listing.  That's almost entirely irrelevant.

And i said i was wondering why my auto attack damage was doing less then that of a shield and board tank or a rogue but then again i suppose your just one of those people that just declares everyone they dont agree with trolls.

Ok so what is revlevant then? give me the math or are you also incapable and mearly insulted me to hide the fact that you yourself cant? 

[ColaQueen]

Ugh, you two bickering has really taken the fun out of this thread...I might change my butter knives for a cheese knife and make a sandwich.

[cajoling_Andy]

i didnt want to be a rogue, i wanted to be a rouge

[Nightshade IX]

I like role playing as a ranger. That means being proficient in both dual wielding and archery. Is equipping two weapon sets on the main character (Hawke) still possible like in origins?

[SlayTheDragons]

i would hope so...that the tank, archer, archer, mage paradigm mentioned earlier can be switched to tank, DW, DW, mage whenever i want. that would be sweet.

[HeAdSpOtTeR]

rogues are a great class to be and they do a lot of damage if you know how to use them. in origins/awakening my rogue always hit for 200+ damage and hit up to 500 on some foes. and the fact i can pick locks is even better. also under the damage output % i was doing in my party it was 62% and that's with Anders in my party with his spell at 200+. so don't doubt rogues

[Mick301981]

My only experience with an archer in DAO was taking control of Leliana during encounters, and switching my DW rogue to a bow for the Archdemon fight and the Harvester fight in Golems of Amgarrak.

Just did an archer playthrough of the demo however, and I think my first Hawke is going to be an archer. Had a blast playing an archer 

Modifié par Mick301981, 05 mars 2011 - 06:27 .

[Mick301981]

Nightshade IX wrote...

I like role playing as a ranger. That means being proficient in both dual wielding and archery. Is equipping two weapon sets on the main character (Hawke) still possible like in origins?

Was wondering this myself.  Would be nice to have my archer be able to quickly switch to daggers when necessary.

[necromancyx]

Damn, I can't decide weather or not to make a dual wielder or an archer... decisions, decisions...

[Calian44]

I have to agree with this. I find that the rogue class has more fun when it comes to combat, especially with their acrobatics and special tricks. Rogues all the way!

[Dr. Chaos]

Well, finally decided on being a dual wielding rogue for my first playthrough.

I was leaning heavily towards Mage at first but I'm a melee fighter at heart, I got to be deep in the action.

That and I was already a warrior in my first playthrough of Origins. Being able to bypass traps and locks is always nice aswell.

[Wheeler515]

Calian44 wrote...

I have to agree with this. I find that the rogue class has more fun when it comes to combat, especially with their acrobatics and special tricks. Rogues all the way!

You see it was the acrobatic tricks that actually turned me away from the rogue. I played through 3 rounds of origins as a rogue, and love the class, but I felt like the flips did not fit the character. The flips in combat are too acrobatic. I like the fact that Bioware tried to differentiate the rogue combate from the warrior, but I think they went a little too far  in the opposite direction. They fit isabella, or a female character, or even an elven character who you could imagine would be more agile, but I don't think they are tailored to the way in which a huge male human, such as hawke, would move. Perhaps if you could change the body type for a rogue it would fit more. Ultimately the basic combat annoyed me enough to lean towards warrior, despite the new back stab being the coolest move I have ever experienced.......
Poof I'm behind you. Exploding Hurlock Grunt. Beautiful.

Modifié par Wheeler515, 06 mars 2011 - 06:59 .

[SlayTheDragons]

necromancyx wrote...

Damn, I can't decide weather or not to make a dual wielder or an archer... decisions, decisions...

yeah, i'm in the same predicament. the specializations didn't help much either haha at first i was leaning towards archer because alot of people were saying it would be best to roll archer in nightmare, but after reading the assassin specialization i think i can pull off DW pretty well. in a dev chat yesterday, mike said we could switch between weapons during gameplay, we'd just have to go to the inventory menu... so it does take a couple of steps, but there's no reason we can't be both a DW and archer - we'd just have to be one more so than the other due to talent points. in which case i'm going to be majority DW, w/ maybe an upgraded bursting shot for archery.

[Tomark]

Actually the demo has a not-yet-balanced 2-H, the actual 2-H are much stronger.

As for 2-H and FF, a 2-H is supposed to his just short of you if you are on the other side of the enemy, so going tank/DW/Mage/Archer is possible, as well as a few other configurations.