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[Dean_the_Young]

chrono21791 wrote...

But exhibit both.

When have the geth ever claimed either, despite repeated claims against?

You anthromorphize.

Then please explain how the heretics could make their own decision and part from the core Geth?

Why not? Determinations are made by inputs and processes: differing inputs (perspective) and different composition can easily justify different conclusions.

 Please explain how when building concensus, many of them disagree with each other?

Again, why would it be impossible?

[Dean_the_Young]

Moiaussi wrote...
No more or less reactive than human thought processes. We encounter stimulii and make associations with what we already know, forming conclusions that we call 'recognition.' The process is so fast that it doesn't seem reactive, but that doesn't mean it isn't.

We're really just going in circles here, so with no disrespect intended I'm going to cut to the point: the difference in conclusion is based in part due to a difference in logical building blocks, and there isn't even a consensus on what those logical stepping stones are. If you believe organics predictable reactions, the Geth are the same sort of sentience we can claim. If not, then no. The conclusion is incredibly dependent on that underlying premise.

But choosing not to change is a choice too. If they were governed solely by logic with no other feelings or values, then they would change. As for some part of it remaining in your memory, why would they need to forget what they were before to be able to change? Based on that they would never have rebelled... they had to 'change what they were before.'

I can make the contrary argument: if you are governed by logic, and not feelings, you would not change it if you didn't have to.

They have individual decisions, and vote in arguably the most efficient democracy ever.

'Vote' is a meaningless concept to the Geth, as Legion tries to clarify. He distinctly separates their consensus from democracy.

Why do you see this as 'lowering ourselves down to their level?'

Recognizing the fallacy of a non-existent and fallacious 'advantage' we have held over others would be humbling ourselves from an assumed level of superiority.

What else would you call it but getting down form a high horse?

[chrono21791]

I like how all of this is irrelevant, seeing as how many sources in-game confirm that they are sentient beings with free will.

Legion states this, Quarians state this, the rest of the galaxy agrees.

[Moiaussi]

[quote]Dean_the_Young wrote...

We're really just going in circles here, so with no disrespect intended I'm going to cut to the point: the difference in conclusion is based in part due to a difference in logical building blocks, and there isn't even a consensus on what those logical stepping stones are. If you believe organics predictable reactions, the Geth are the same sort of sentience we can claim. If not, then no. The conclusion is incredibly dependent on that underlying premise.[/quote[

Agreed. Personally I believe that the reactions are sufficiently complex to be effectively unpredictable. Is there noone in your life though that you have found to be reasonably predictable? You never know how your boss, or girlfriend/wife, friends, etc, will react to things? They seem completely random to you, even in terms of emotions?

[quote]I can make the contrary argument: if you are governed by logic, and not feelings, you would not change it if you didn't have to. [/quote]

Only if you never question your base premises. There are plenty of humans who get stuck in that rutt.  Sentience includes the ability to question and change your base premises, to learn. We know even from Tali that the Geth were intended to learn and adapt, to be versitile and be able to adapt to a wide variety of tasks.


[quote]'Vote' is a meaningless concept to the Geth, as Legion tries to clarify. He distinctly separates their consensus from democracy.[/quote]

He can clarify all he wants. Each Geth expresses an opinion and they come to a result. How is that not democracy? It is pure democracy rather than representative democracy but it is nevertheless democracy. A rose by any other name..... Sidenote, the Asari do the same, just less efficiently.

[quote]
Recognizing the fallacy of a non-existent and fallacious 'advantage' we have held over others would be humbling ourselves from an assumed level of superiority.

What else would you call it but getting down form a high horse?[/quote]

"Lowering to their level' implies they were on a lower level. Anything can be seen as lowering or raising, it is just a matter of where you set the zero point and how you look at it. How about simply 'accepting them as equals' and acknoweldge that they always were, rather than assume movement in either direction?

[Moiaussi]

Saphra Deden wrote...

chrono21791 wrote...

Legion states this, Quarians state this, the rest of the galaxy agrees.

Xen disagrees and I suspect she has better credentials than you do.

Xen doesn't disagree. She just takes the position that since they were created by the Quarians, the Quarians are their 'Gods' and the Geth should be subserviant. It is no different from parents taking the same attitude towards their children, regardless of how old the children are or what the parents insist they do.

She doesn't deny the Geth's sentience, more like disregards it.