68 réponses à ce sujet

[Biotic_Warlock]

James2912 wrote...

to be loved!

He sends geth to kill you as a romantic gesture.

Awwww.

[StarcloudSWG]

Autistic people are *very* sensitive to outside stimuli. Loud noises, sudden touches, lots of visual movement, all those things are problematic. David was a mathematical savant and severely autistic.

And then his brother developed a brain to machine interface and plugged David into it. Constant, overwhelming stimulus.

David told Shepard what he wanted. He wanted it to stop. It's that simple.

[Smeelia]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

He sends geth to kill you as a romantic gesture.

Awwww.

That with Joker's picture seems totally appropriate, it's just the sort of thing he'd say.

I wonder if the VI was the one doing most of the decision making, it wanted to survive and it didn't want you to take David away from it.  I'm still not sure how the upload idea works though (unless it just wanted to expand it's network rather than actually leave) since it couldn't take David through a transmission and AIs that are transferred from their blue box don't retain their personality.

[Biotic_Warlock]

Smeelia wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

He sends geth to kill you as a romantic gesture.

Awwww.

That with Joker's picture seems totally appropriate, it's just the sort of thing he'd say.

I wonder if the VI was the one doing most of the decision making, it wanted to survive and it didn't want you to take David away from it.  I'm still not sure how the upload idea works though (unless it just wanted to expand it's network rather than actually leave) since it couldn't take David through a transmission and AIs that are transferred from their blue box don't retain their personality.

And im sure EDI could easily block it... just like with the collectors.
Or should i say - Mum can block it.

Well, david isnt really an AI.
Just a Human-Vi hybrid. So basically it's just like an AI, only with less programming and emotions to boot.

An emotional synthetic sounds dangerous.

[Slayer299]

Rawke wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

I will kill you both wrote...

What kind of moron would put an aspie in charge of the geth...specially with that infernal machine?

Having Aspergers Syndrome is a lot different from someone who suffers from autism. Individuals with AS have difficulty with social behaviour between themselves and others and also repetetive behaviours and that very lack of empathy that people with AS might well have made it easier for David to communicate initally with the Geth. There would be no emotions to color his communications with the Geth and actually making him seem somehow similar to the Geth themselves even though he was an organic.

Next time look before you open your mouth:pinched:

A thousand times this. Also, I'd like to add the AS only means you lack the ability to instinctively interpret social behaviour, not a general behavioural disorder. Basic things such as body language or a certain tone in someones voice can be misinterpreted easily. I disagree, however, that someone with AS may be able to "understand" the Geth more easily.  A person with AS doesn't lack emotions, just the tools to interpret other people's feelings correctly. He/she therefore doesn't act rationally, quite the opposite actually. Stumbling in the dark, so to speak. Doesn't change anything about the central message - that AS is something different than classical autism.

True, although that wasn't my intent about someone with AS understanding the Geth easier. Merely the lack of the color of emotions in the communication itself, not a lack of emotions at all. Thank you for correcting me on that. 

[Chuvvy]

I just realized how much more awesome and hilarious that mission would have been if it were David Alan Grier in that thing.

[wolfennights]

I really loved the fact that they brought something like Autism into a story such as Mass Effect. Really just made the story closer to home, as opposed to something like Star Wars.

And I think it's pretty obvious what David wanted.

[Rawke]

Slayer299 wrote...

Rawke wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

I will kill you both wrote...

What kind of moron would put an aspie in charge of the geth...specially with that infernal machine?

Having Aspergers Syndrome is a lot different from someone who suffers from autism. Individuals with AS have difficulty with social behaviour between themselves and others and also repetetive behaviours and that very lack of empathy that people with AS might well have made it easier for David to communicate initally with the Geth. There would be no emotions to color his communications with the Geth and actually making him seem somehow similar to the Geth themselves even though he was an organic.

Next time look before you open your mouth:pinched:

A thousand times this. Also, I'd like to add the AS only means you lack the ability to instinctively interpret social behaviour, not a general behavioural disorder. Basic things such as body language or a certain tone in someones voice can be misinterpreted easily. I disagree, however, that someone with AS may be able to "understand" the Geth more easily.  A person with AS doesn't lack emotions, just the tools to interpret other people's feelings correctly. He/she therefore doesn't act rationally, quite the opposite actually. Stumbling in the dark, so to speak. Doesn't change anything about the central message - that AS is something different than classical autism.

True, although that wasn't my intent about someone with AS understanding the Geth easier. Merely the lack of the color of emotions in the communication itself, not a lack of emotions at all. Thank you for correcting me on that. 

Didn't mean to sound like a smartass, I just wanted to point out that people with AS just can't interpret emotions of others, not that they don't have any. I think people with AS wouldn't understand synthetics better than other people, it'd just be easier for people with AS to understand synthetics (because they have a pretty monotone voice and little to no bodylanguage) than people. Again, didn't wnat to sound like a smartass and I didn't mean to offend. Good example to demonstrate the problems of AS. Imagine having to carefully interpret any conversation in RL like you have to on the internet...

[Notho]

Mesina2 wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

Rawke wrote...
*snip of well done post*

This, 1000 times over

And I actually did shed tears because it hit home in a very personal way...

Well I didn't feel like crying but I was very disgusted by that scene.
Dr. Archer is lucky that there was no Renegade interrupt.

Considering that the paragon interrupt was pistol whipping him, I'd say you're probably right.

[Slayer299]

Rawke wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

Rawke wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

I will kill you both wrote...

What kind of moron would put an aspie in charge of the geth...specially with that infernal machine?

Having Aspergers Syndrome is a lot different from someone who suffers from autism. Individuals with AS have difficulty with social behaviour between themselves and others and also repetetive behaviours and that very lack of empathy that people with AS might well have made it easier for David to communicate initally with the Geth. There would be no emotions to color his communications with the Geth and actually making him seem somehow similar to the Geth themselves even though he was an organic.

Next time look before you open your mouth:pinched:

A thousand times this. Also, I'd like to add the AS only means you lack the ability to instinctively interpret social behaviour, not a general behavioural disorder. Basic things such as body language or a certain tone in someones voice can be misinterpreted easily. I disagree, however, that someone with AS may be able to "understand" the Geth more easily.  A person with AS doesn't lack emotions, just the tools to interpret other people's feelings correctly. He/she therefore doesn't act rationally, quite the opposite actually. Stumbling in the dark, so to speak. Doesn't change anything about the central message - that AS is something different than classical autism.

True, although that wasn't my intent about someone with AS understanding the Geth easier. Merely the lack of the color of emotions in the communication itself, not a lack of emotions at all. Thank you for correcting me on that. 

Didn't mean to sound like a smartass, I just wanted to point out that people with AS just can't interpret emotions of others, not that they don't have any. I think people with AS wouldn't understand synthetics better than other people, it'd just be easier for people with AS to understand synthetics (because they have a pretty monotone voice and little to no bodylanguage) than people. Again, didn't wnat to sound like a smartass and I didn't mean to offend. Good example to demonstrate the problems of AS. Imagine having to carefully interpret any conversation in RL like you have to on the internet...

My initial comment was for "Kill you Both", when I responded to you I was trying to explain my reasoning while acknowledging your correction. I'm sorry if I came off short with you, that was not my intention...

edit - wrong reply initially.

Modifié par Slayer299, 03 mars 2011 - 03:42 .

[Rawke]

Slayer299 wrote...

Rawke wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

Rawke wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

I will kill you both wrote...

What kind of moron would put an aspie in charge of the geth...specially with that infernal machine?

Having Aspergers Syndrome is a lot different from someone who suffers from autism. Individuals with AS have difficulty with social behaviour between themselves and others and also repetetive behaviours and that very lack of empathy that people with AS might well have made it easier for David to communicate initally with the Geth. There would be no emotions to color his communications with the Geth and actually making him seem somehow similar to the Geth themselves even though he was an organic.

Next time look before you open your mouth:pinched:

A thousand times this. Also, I'd like to add the AS only means you lack the ability to instinctively interpret social behaviour, not a general behavioural disorder. Basic things such as body language or a certain tone in someones voice can be misinterpreted easily. I disagree, however, that someone with AS may be able to "understand" the Geth more easily.  A person with AS doesn't lack emotions, just the tools to interpret other people's feelings correctly. He/she therefore doesn't act rationally, quite the opposite actually. Stumbling in the dark, so to speak. Doesn't change anything about the central message - that AS is something different than classical autism.

True, although that wasn't my intent about someone with AS understanding the Geth easier. Merely the lack of the color of emotions in the communication itself, not a lack of emotions at all. Thank you for correcting me on that. 

Didn't mean to sound like a smartass, I just wanted to point out that people with AS just can't interpret emotions of others, not that they don't have any. I think people with AS wouldn't understand synthetics better than other people, it'd just be easier for people with AS to understand synthetics (because they have a pretty monotone voice and little to no bodylanguage) than people. Again, didn't wnat to sound like a smartass and I didn't mean to offend. Good example to demonstrate the problems of AS. Imagine having to carefully interpret any conversation in RL like you have to on the internet...

My initial comment was for "Kill you Both", when I responded to you I was trying to explain my reasoning while acknowledging your correction. I'm sorry if I came off short with you, that was not my intention...

edit - wrong reply initially.

I got that, I just know that I often seem like a smartass. Doesn't really matter anyway, the point was made - AS is not autism and "I kill you both" made a careless comment.

[I will kill you both]

Slayer299 wrote...

I will kill you both wrote...

What kind of moron would put an aspie in charge of the geth...specially with that infernal machine?

Having Aspergers Syndrome is a lot different from someone who suffers from autism. Individuals with AS have difficulty with social behaviour between themselves and others and also repetetive behaviours and that very lack of empathy that people with AS might well have made it easier for David to communicate initally with the Geth. There would be no emotions to color his communications with the Geth and actually making him seem somehow similar to the Geth themselves
even though he was an organic.

Next time look before you open your mouth:pinched:

Exactly you are giving killing machines to a guy with no human emphaty...are you sure YOU understand how foolish this is?  People with AS are basicly like little kids, violent and unable to understand reasoning.  (They throw fits all the time)  NOTHING you said makes sense. AT ALL. 

Modifié par I will kill you both, 04 mars 2011 - 09:00 .

[I will kill you both]

Rawke wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

Rawke wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

Rawke wrote...

Slayer299 wrote...

I will kill you both wrote...

What kind of moron would put an aspie in charge of the geth...specially with that infernal machine?

Having Aspergers Syndrome is a lot different from someone who suffers from autism. Individuals with AS have difficulty with social behaviour between themselves and others and also repetetive behaviours and that very lack of empathy that people with AS might well have made it easier for David to communicate initally with the Geth. There would be no emotions to color his communications with the Geth and actually making him seem somehow similar to the Geth themselves even though he was an organic.

Next time look before you open your mouth:pinched:

A thousand times this. Also, I'd like to add the AS only means you lack the ability to instinctively interpret social behaviour, not a general behavioural disorder. Basic things such as body language or a certain tone in someones voice can be misinterpreted easily. I disagree, however, that someone with AS may be able to "understand" the Geth more easily.  A person with AS doesn't lack emotions, just the tools to interpret other people's feelings correctly. He/she therefore doesn't act rationally, quite the opposite actually. Stumbling in the dark, so to speak. Doesn't change anything about the central message - that AS is something different than classical autism.

True, although that wasn't my intent about someone with AS understanding the Geth easier. Merely the lack of the color of emotions in the communication itself, not a lack of emotions at all. Thank you for correcting me on that. 

Didn't mean to sound like a smartass, I just wanted to point out that people with AS just can't interpret emotions of others, not that they don't have any. I think people with AS wouldn't understand synthetics better than other people, it'd just be easier for people with AS to understand synthetics (because they have a pretty monotone voice and little to no bodylanguage) than people. Again, didn't wnat to sound like a smartass and I didn't mean to offend. Good example to demonstrate the problems of AS. Imagine having to carefully interpret any conversation in RL like you have to on the internet...

My initial comment was for "Kill you Both", when I responded to you I was trying to explain my reasoning while acknowledging your correction. I'm sorry if I came off short with you, that was not my intention...

edit - wrong reply initially.

I got that, I just know that I often seem like a smartass. Doesn't really matter anyway, the point was made - AS is not autism and "I kill you both" made a careless comment.

Um yes it is. http://en.wikipedia....drome#Mechanism
http://www.aspergers...ssyndrome.org/ 
Asperger syndrome (AS) is a neurobiological disorder that is part of a group of conditions called autism spectrum disorders. The term "autism spectrum" refers to a range of developmental disabilities that includes autism as well as other disorders with similar characteristics. 

Modifié par I will kill you both, 04 mars 2011 - 09:05 .

[TuringPoint]

AS is a somewhat unfortunate disorder, but 'Aspie' does not seem very respectful, especially in this context.  I respect and understand that that is the prevailing cultural attitude, but honestly that attitude ought to be taken down a notch or two.  I'll give it my best shot. 

AS is not autism.  Your wikipedia link confirms that.  Both Autism and AS - please note that there are different names for each respective condiction - are on the "autism spectrum."  That is just a manner of classification, however - made sensible because the two conditions are similar in certain key ways.

Misunderstanding of the autism spectrum is understandable.  I find it unlikely you have any personal experience with those with diagnosed AS if you believe that it is the "Same" as autism.  It is not.  

The other possibility is that you *have* had experience with people who had said disorder, but you are simply stupid.  If we are going to classify AS and Autism as "the same," I might as well replace "stupid" with "mentally retarded, or slow," but... I won't - because I think acts of stupidity don't justify such diagnoses, any more than someone with Asperger's should be classified as autistic.  

Someone with Asperger's syndrome does not lack empathy.   In fact, having Asperger's tends to go with having fewer sociopathic tendencies than normal people do.  Those with Autism, and to a lesser extent those with Asperger's, sometimes have "fits" but those fits are not of the "destroy the world" variety, which is what the VI seemed to be suffering from on a grand scale.  If the machines were doing what they did as part of David's "fit" for being put in the machine, they would be killing eachother as much as killing Cerberus employees.  I believe he lost control of the Geth under "his" control, and his panic fueled the fire.

There are so many reasons it was stupid to put David in that machine.  He had developed a savant like ability to communicate with the Geth, partially because of his unusual mind but mostly because of being around them and, by chance, his mind sorting out meaning from the Geth 'clicks.'   There was no evidence that plugging him into the machine as-is would have the intended result.

Still, I thought this portrayal of autism - or AS, if that was the intention - was the weakest part of the whole plot of Overlord.  

Modifié par Alocormin, 04 mars 2011 - 10:48 .

[CroGamer002]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

James2912 wrote...

to be loved!

He sends geth to kill you as a romantic gesture.

Awwww.

I'm sure Grunt appreciates that love.

[Slayer299]

I will kill you both wrote...
Exactly you are giving killing machines to a guy with no human emphaty...are you sure YOU understand how foolish this is?  People with AS are basicly like little kids, violent and unable to understand reasoning.  (They throw fits all the time)  NOTHING you said makes sense. AT ALL. 

Do you have no ability to read or comprehend? Because that was covered already, people with AS are neither violent nor unable to understand reasoning. They have difficulty with connecting emotionally to others; whether they be friends, family or merely co-workers, that does not mean they are emotionless. If you do not understand then buy a clue and go look it up on the Internet.

Ignorance is not a virtue, especially in your case!

Um yes it is. http://en.wikipedia....drome#Mechanism
http://www.aspergers...ssyndrome.org/  ../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png
Asperger syndrome (AS) is a neurobiological disorder that is part of a group of conditions called autism spectrum disorders. The term "autism spectrum" refers to a range of developmental disabilities that includes autism as well as other disorders with similar characteristics.

Yes genius, it is autism. I said it was not a standard form of autism since AS allows the individual to function at what is considered at an adult level as opposed to standard autism where the individual's function varies but is generally impaired with their ability to communicate their needs, understand others, deal with friends, family and strangers in an appropriate fashion in addition to the host of other issues they may have.

If you actually read either the wiki or the AS website instead of just cutting and pasting a short two sentence paragraph you would actually realize that and not make such generally unintelligent and uninformed comments about individuals with AS being violent little children who cannot reason..

edit - annoying formatting

Modifié par Slayer299, 04 mars 2011 - 03:05 .

[Rawke]

I will kill you both wrote...


Um yes it is. http://en.wikipedia....drome#Mechanism
http://www.aspergers...ssyndrome.org/ 
Asperger syndrome (AS) is a neurobiological disorder that is part of a group of conditions called autism spectrum disorders. The term "autism spectrum" refers to a range of developmental disabilities that includes autism as well as other disorders with similar characteristics. 

Let me pull out my favourite metaphore - every German Shepard is a dog, but not every dog a German Shepard. Yes, AS belongs to the same spectrum of disorders as autism. However, AS is not nearly as "bad" as classical autism. People with AS can have a relatively normal life (assuming they don't suffer from another behavioral disorder coinciding with AS such as schizophrenia). People with classical autism usually can't.

And, once again - AS =|= no emotions. It just means you're not able to identify and understand non-verbal communication (such as body-language). Nothing more, nothing less. That makes people with AS looking socially awkward. There are other symptoms, but this is the most important one.
My point is, you can have a relatively normal conversation with someone who has AS. You will be able to reason with him/her, it's really not as bad as it sounds (not that it's thrilling to have AS, I have ADD and I know how much it sucks to be "the odd guy"). At least not as bad as autism. David didn't suffer from AS, as far as we can tell from his conversations with Archer that we can see while being infected. That looks like autism combined with mathematical giftedness.

Also, I don't think it really matters who you connect with an AI, the stream of data would overwhelm anybody within seconds, and who doesn't already have a mental disorder certainly will have one after a few minutes...

Modifié par Rawke, 04 mars 2011 - 04:56 .

[CroGamer002]

You know, pyramid of posts can get thread locked.

[wizardryforever]

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

Smeelia wrote...

Biotic_Warlock wrote...

He sends geth to kill you as a romantic gesture.

Awwww.

That with Joker's picture seems totally appropriate, it's just the sort of thing he'd say.

I wonder if the VI was the one doing most of the decision making, it wanted to survive and it didn't want you to take David away from it.  I'm still not sure how the upload idea works though (unless it just wanted to expand it's network rather than actually leave) since it couldn't take David through a transmission and AIs that are transferred from their blue box don't retain their personality.

And im sure EDI could easily block it... just like with the collectors.
Or should i say - Mum can block it.

Well, david isnt really an AI.
Just a Human-Vi hybrid. So basically it's just like an AI, only with less programming and emotions to boot.

An emotional synthetic sounds dangerous.

Well considering the non-standard game over you get if you let the upload finish, I'd say that EDI couldn't block it.  The gameover scene shows EDI being infected by the VI, though what would happen after that is open to speculation.

[Jonesey2k]

"Overlord: What did David WANT"

Probably a Kebab...

[Pwener2313]

It wouldn't have been much of a DLC if David would have been friendly.

[DxWill10]

here's my best analogy.

I saw a video of a dog trapped in freezing water desperately clinging to an ice shelf. when someone came over on a boat to try and save it, the dog lunges at the man and bites him in the face. it was so panicked it wasnt think rationally. David is like this dog.

[ShamieGTX]

DxWill10 wrote...

here's my best analogy.

I saw a video of a dog trapped in freezing water desperately clinging to an ice shelf. when someone came over on a boat to try and save it, the dog lunges at the man and bites him in the face. it was so panicked it wasnt think rationally. David is like this dog.

Dont wanna hate, but dogs dont rationalize, humans are only animal that rationalize, thats why well thats why were humans... 

[Jabarai]

ShamieGTX wrote...

DxWill10 wrote...

here's my best analogy.

I saw a video of a dog trapped in freezing water desperately clinging to an ice shelf. when someone came over on a boat to try and save it, the dog lunges at the man and bites him in the face. it was so panicked it wasnt think rationally. David is like this dog.

Dont wanna hate, but dogs dont rationalize, humans are only animal that rationalize, thats why well thats why were humans... 

Being humans doesn't actually entitle us to be all that much above other creatures. DxWill, I think, talked about thinking rationally, which many, many animals indeed do (e.g. a cat acts pleasantly in order to receive affection - either that or our cat is unique).

But rationalising is a bit different, and I think you might be right in saying we are the only species that does that - that is, creating false but self-satisfying reasons for one's actions or behaviour. And I'm not sure that's such a good thing, mind! 

[Praetor Knight]

Jabarai wrote...

Being humans doesn't actually entitle us to be all that much above other creatures. DxWill, I think, talked about thinking rationally, which many, many animals indeed do (e.g. a cat acts pleasantly in order to receive affection - either that or our cat is unique).

But rationalising is a bit different, and I think you might be right in saying we are the only species that does that - that is, creating false but self-satisfying reasons for one's actions or behaviour. And I'm not sure that's such a good thing, mind! 

Which seems to make us human