131 réponses à ce sujet

[Morroian]

Soruve wrote...

Before January there was hardly enough information and images of DA2 to warrant most people to pre-order it.

Sure there was,  a lot of information had been released and there were game play videos around. If you were still unsure based on what had been released until then well you've just got to suck it up.

Soruve wrote...
So in other words, Bioware is 'rewarding' those who order their games out of dedication rather than out of interest.

Why is rewarding diehard fans questionable?

Soruve wrote...
That said, I have no problems with DLC, I just find Bioware's method of releasing these DLCs questionable. Since this DLC is obviously done before release, why was it simply not just added to the original game.

The devs have gone into this in some detail. Briefly it doesn't have to be finished 2 months before the game is released like the main game; they have a separate DLC budget which this was funded out of; and they wanted to encourage pre-orders presumably to increase initial units shipped. They've been fairly up front about the whole thing.

[AlanC9]

Darkhour wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Huh? Bio never said any such thing. Sebastian was always intended as DLC, and was never stripped from the game. 

Sure, they budgeted for DLC with the idea of making profit from that DLC. So frigging what?

Suuuuuuure he wasn't a part of the story from the get go.  Since they intentional left him off the disk for DLC purposes, that make all the difference.   

Don't be silly. The plan for Day 1 DLC has been around for a long time. I suppose it's conceivable that Bio's devs could have completely forgotten about that, suddenly remembered it sometime last summer and then frantically worked to cut Sebastian out and repackage him as DLC, setting themselves up for a bunch of project management and QA nightmares.

Or they could have done what they've consistently said they did. Namely, plan and budget for DLC separately, and execute that plan

Though if you're determined to believe that Bio's devs are not only lying but are also fools, nobody can stop you.

[astrallite]

What the hell.

The game went gold a month ago.

Obviously the content was finished before the game was.

It's just extra content that EA is charging for because they feel the game is worth $70.

[Phoenixblight]

astrallite wrote...

What the hell.

The game went gold a month ago.

Obviously the content was finished before the game was.

It's just extra content that EA is charging for because they feel the game is worth $70.

Go learn a thing or two about Game Development before making moronic remarks. 6-8 months prior to release they lock content to the disk what is not on par for the game gets removed ie SHale. If we didn't have DLC Sebastion, Shale, Zaeed would never see the light of day. 

[Jarradane]

What's wrong with you people?
They provided you with a way to get the exclusive content from the signature edition and you're complaining?
Seriously?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I didn't pre-order because I'm a die-hard fan. I did it because it's 50% cheaper than what it'll cost once it hits shelves down here.

[AlanC9]

astrallite wrote...

What the hell.

The game went gold a month ago.

Obviously the content was finished before the game was.

It's just extra content that EA is charging for because they feel the game is worth $70.

This doesn't make any sense. What does the game going gold have to do with something that isn't on the disc? You do know what the "DL" in "DLC" stands for, right?

[Maria Caliban]

Savber100 wrote...

Don't buy it... simple as that

And that's it.

If you don't like the DLC, don't buy it.

If you don't feel that Dragon Age 2 is a complete game without it, don't buy it.

If you want what you perceive as the 'complete' package but for a lower price, wait a year for DA II Ultimate Edition.

astrallite wrote...

The game went gold a month ago.

Obviously the content was finished before the game was.

We don't actually know when it was finished. It might not even BE finished yet.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 02 mars 2011 - 06:48 .

[mesmerizedish]

*headdesk*

[Reptillius]

Querne wrote...

Nonoru wrote...

Couldn't implement the character in time.

And it's free for those who preordered before january.

You realize, that it IS implemented in time?  

Actually No. Since He is a Download. he was not done in time. For all we know they are finishing him up in a back room somewhere tonight. If that is true. Hate to tell you this but most of the disks for the game launch are already Printed, Packaged, and Sitting in warehouses or moving between Warehouses to be sold.

I work in a retail place that sales games. We have those games in our backroom in advance often between 2 and 7 days before the game comes out. Most of them near the three but I've seen a few that we've had like a week early. It's very rare that they are something that arrives on the Truck Monday Night for the Game Release at Midnight or tuesday.  It's even more rare that they are late.

For us to have it that much early in the major retail place I work at. That means that the company I work for probably recieved much larger shipments a week or more before even that.  So all our disks that we're getting? They aren't really in bioware's hands at this moment tonight.  However Bioware if they choose to could be finishing up and loading final versions of Sebastian onto servers ready to be downloaded with propper codes litterally as Late as Monday March 7 and still be fully ready for midnight release downloads of his content.

In the old days when it came out on disk as well that's a different story. That is months of work. But the main game we're all salivating over and going to get no matter what was done likely by Christmas unless they really pushed things into time crunch mode or my estimations are off.

And something to keep in mind when your complaining is that things like Sebastian have been added to pre-bought or special printing games for years. Like the Special Edition of Baldur's Gate 2 that had two extra item sellers that you couldn't get in the normal game and basically weren't released for the mass game until the game was out for a very long time and reaching the end of it's support time.  Many other games back then and even now have these kinds of things that they never ever offer the general public. Special armours, unique characters, extra items, and a whole slew of other things.  Even more are offered if you only order with special sellers.  These are all DLC items. Most of them are Day 1 DLC Items.

You want to complain that you actually have to pay if you didn't take advantage of the offers for these items?  Some of them will never get but for the biggest most important ones Bioware and by some extension of that EA are actually nice and are willing to sell you those special gifts for a small price that they didn't have to do it all.  Many other companies still don't and most of those offers have time/location limits on their offers on top of it.

So next time you decide to complain about first day release items that you have to pay for stop and think. "They didn't have to give me this at all." and that many other games aren't even giving you that option. And I could list a whole heck of a lot of such items if I choose to (Channeler Sword and Special Tattoo's from Fable III anyone?).  Then realise that even if they are making money they are being nice about it in their business practices and could be a heck of a lot worse and if you weren't lucky enough be like me and spend some of that money if you can and you want it.  If you don't then you really aren't at any kind of actual loss.

Modifié par Reptillius, 02 mars 2011 - 06:57 .

[Savvie]

I almost got excited for a moment, thought the thread title said the game has been released. <_<

[astrallite]

Phoenixblight wrote...

Go learn a thing or two about Game Development before making moronic remarks. 6-8 months prior to release they lock content to the disk what is not on par for the game gets removed ie SHale. If we didn't have DLC Sebastion, Shale, Zaeed would never see the light of day. 

AlanC9 wrote...

This doesn't make any sense. What does the game going gold have to do with something that isn't on the disc? You do know what the "DL" in "DLC" stands for, right?

You so right. I am sorry for being a moron.

Sebastian is an epic DLC and something like this takes years so there's no way it's ready until March 8.

The game content was locked 8 months ago. All the weird stuff that happened on the demo has been corrected because the demo has been ready for 10 months now.

I stand corrected.

[Mantaal]

drahelvete wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Except this isn't what we're doing. This isn't something we've ever done, at any point. I know many people are convinced that whenever we mention any kind of DLC that's released near the on-disc product that it's stuff we just tore out of the main game to sell for an extra price, but that's not true. DLC of any sort is budgeted and worked on in a completely separate fashion from the main game. For the most part, we need to be completely locked down content-wise a good two or three months in advance. More is preferable, of course, but there's a minimum of at least a month and a half.

Anything and everything that's worked on as PRC is both budgeted and worked on completely separately from the main game. Sometimes, the timelines intersect a bit - writers tend to be done with the game a little sooner than anyone else, so they've got some downtime to write dialogue and such. But we've never gone in and stripped something from the main game just so we could sell it after the fact. As it is, most of our projects end up in a lot of 14 hour days and long weekends at the office just so we can finish what you're actually getting on the disc. Nevermind extra content for us to cut so we can later repackage it and resell it. That just doesn't happen.

Of course, I work for the company, so I'm certain some people wouldn't believe me if I told them rain is wet. That's their prerogative! For the rest, though, I figured I'd chime in and dispel some of the fears.

JohnEpler wrote...

Except the decision isn't between 'do we release this as DLC' and 'do we put it on disk', but rather 'do we release this as DLC' and 'do we not release it'. We do not have unlimited time and resources. We cannot simply put every piece of content we can think of on-disc, as it's not being completed during the development process. There is, simply, never enough time to do everything you want to - otherwise, if you decide to add every bit of content you can think of to the on-disc product, you're never going to release your game.

It's fine if you don't believe me, or don't agree with me - that's cool! Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But at this point, it seems obvious that debating this with you is pointless, and so I will withdraw from this discussion.

I understand his statement. Bioware really needs those 7$ and there is no way to patch missing content inside the game like other Developers do.
So you buy a unfinished Produkt and you got to pay extra for the rest. Same happens to me if i buy a Car. It comes along without a Radio, Windows and Wheels.. you have to buy them extra or just have none. I think thats fair. And im sure if everyone would not buy that extra they would do it still that way

Just canceled my SE so i could have that without paying extra. I still think its a Rip-off and its kinda funny Peoples here even Defend that. Im thinking about spending Bioware just 10$ just because i can and they look so poor they need it.

I wonder what the next Step is.. "If you want to see the End of the game click here to pay 5$  and get it now! Every sunday its only 4.99$! 
And Peoples will say "Well the ending wasnt finish when the game got on Discs. But its a cool game so im happy that i can buy the end and enjoy it! You can also buy the Special Hardcore Mega Ultra edition for only 150$ and get all the Videos and Voices for free you moron!" 

Modifié par Mantaal, 02 mars 2011 - 07:18 .

[SnakeSNMF]

Bioware is stupid for doing this, I've loved them, but not anymore. </3

[Darkhour]

AlanC9 wrote...

Darkhour wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Huh? Bio never said any such thing. Sebastian was always intended as DLC, and was never stripped from the game. 

Sure, they budgeted for DLC with the idea of making profit from that DLC. So frigging what?

Suuuuuuure he wasn't a part of the story from the get go.  Since they intentional left him off the disk for DLC purposes, that make all the difference.   

Don't be silly. The plan for Day 1 DLC has been around for a long time. I suppose it's conceivable that Bio's devs could have completely forgotten about that, suddenly remembered it sometime last summer and then frantically worked to cut Sebastian out and repackage him as DLC, setting themselves up for a bunch of project management and QA nightmares.

Or they could have done what they've consistently said they did. Namely, plan and budget for DLC separately, and execute that plan

Though if you're determined to believe that Bio's devs are not only lying but are also fools, nobody can stop you.

Appearently this is too difficult a concept for you to comprehend because you're making a strawman. Let me break it down.

I write a story with characters Bob, John, Mike, Sue, and Jane.

I decide to make a game from said story.

From the start I decide that Mike will be a day one DLC so that I can make an extra buck.

The decision to make that extra buck at the very start is in no way less greedy than putting them all in the game, as the story dictates, and removing Mike halfway into production. (not saying they are wrong for being greedy)

This is what Bioware does,  Just because Mike was intentional a DLC from the start does not erase the fact that they could have put him on the main disk and that Mike was ALWAYS a part of the main story. Setting aside seperate resources to produce the Mike DLC does not erase the fact that Mike is just as much a part of the main story as Bob, John, Sue or Jane. I could have just as easily made Jane the DLC and left Mike in. Same as Origins. Sten could have been the DLC and Shale on the retail disk (although that's a little different as Shale was supposed to be on the main disk and cut).  It's merely a matter of who they choose to make the extra buck on (golem more interesting at face value than "large human"). Look at ME2.  Zaaed was one of the first concept art ever leaked 3 years before the game came out. He was always supposed to be in the story.  Just because they intentional keep him seperate from the main disk from the start changes nothing.

Do you get it now? No one is claiming Sebastian was ripped off the CD midway through developement. He was "ripped out" from the very start.

[AlterEqo]

At least there is no question that they will be supporting the game with DLC. Look on the bright side.

[FieryDove]

Maria Caliban wrote...

If you don't like the DLC, don't buy it.

If you don't feel that Dragon Age 2 is a complete game without it, don't buy it.

If you want what you perceive as the 'complete' package but for a lower price, wait a year for DA II Ultimate Edition. 

Logic has no place here...begone.

I remember DLC being brought up for DAO. The dlc that wasn't finished could be finished because of the delay, plus was there a comment about a seperate dlc team? I would imagine Bioware moves people around when a part of a game is finished and different teams do different things. some move on to new games, some patch/dlc teams or whatever.

I don't see a problem with it atm. That could change of course. I don't like segement games all that much, buy a chapter at a time but that's just me.

DLC is here to stay as long as its profitible. And considering the success of say "The sims" stores I would say a very long time.

[AlanC9]

astrallite wrote...

You so right. I am sorry for being a moron.

At least we agree on something

Sebastian is an epic DLC and something like this takes years so there's no way it's ready until March 8.

That's not quite the point. Sebastian won't be ready until March 8th because he doesn't need to be. Because they know his deadline is later than the stuff that's on the disc they can assign their people accordingly. Why finish him a month earlier than he needs to be finished?

[Lucian820]

If they didnt have DLC already at launch you same people would be complaigning that they took too long to relase DLC, save the "uhuh not me!" Its true. You come on the forums just to complaign.

[Jamie_edmo]

When I saw the DLC on the PSN Store i thought somebody had made a mistake, seeing as though it says on the website that Exiled Prince's release date is March 8th

[AlanC9]

Darkhour wrote...
Appearently this is too difficult a concept for you to comprehend because you're making a strawman. Let me break it down.

Sorry for not being able to penetrate the thick layer of snark surrounding your argument. I'll give it a shot now.

I write a story with characters Bob, John, Mike, Sue, and Jane.

I decide to make a game from said story.

From the start I decide that Mike will be a day one DLC so that I can make an extra buck.

That's backwards. They decided to make a game first, then they wrote a story for that game -- read the interviews on how they came up with the story. And hence this isn't necessarily true:

This is what Bioware does,  Just because Mike was intentional a DLC from the start does not erase the fact that they could have put him on the main disk and that Mike was ALWAYS a part of the main story.

The awareness of needing a DLC character pre-dates the story. We don't know if Sebastian was always conceived as a DLC character, or if they just decided they'd pick one of the characters for DLC. I'm betting on the former. If you know from the get-go that a character is for DLC, you can write the main game knowing that he's not guaranteed to be present. These issues don't go away just because you aren't actually writing code yet

Do you get it now? No one is claiming Sebastian was ripped off the CD midway through developement. He was "ripped out" from the very start.

Actually, some folks are claiming that. Though I'm satisfied that you're not.

[AlmondBrown]

They used to just get you "Coming and Going!".

Now they have cut out the middle man and "Just get you!"

As such, the actual cost of DA:2 is the SRLP + local tax +$7.00 LOL! They gotcha too.

[cloudstrife070]

Lucian820 wrote...

If they didnt have DLC already at launch you same people would be complaigning that they took too long to relase DLC, save the "uhuh not me!" Its true. You come on the forums just to complaign.

DLC is to extend the experience of the games, look at DLC for RDR for example, a great game , people finish it and then they release DLC, but this ??? this is just to suck more 7 dolars by take one character of the game and sell it  , simple !!!

i sugest you guys to listen to a podcast named epicbatlleaxe to see what i am talking about.

i love bioware but i don´t support this kind of crap.

[Jamie_edmo]

Looks like the DLC has been taken off the EU PSN Store hmmm