269 réponses à ce sujet

[Xerxes52]

I'm not too bothered by it, at least we get to upgrade their outfits throughout the game.

[sassperella]

I actually like this. It's nice that your companions have their own look. We're not their mother, they're not babies that need dressing

It gives the companions a more unique look and personality of their own rather than some hashed up collection of armor that wasn't good enough for the main PC who always got first dibs.

[lostspline]

sassperella wrote...

It gives the companions a more unique look and personality of their own rather than some hashed up collection of armor that wasn't good enough for the main PC who always got first dibs.

Now, the companions value style over substance. 

[PhoenixBlacke]

As long as we can upgrade and make the armor better, I'm down for it somewhat. I do like everyone having their own look. But this is one reason why my wife didn't want to play, stressing about everyone else and her own character lol. Best of both worlds, I recon. Guess we will see in a few days eh?

[Sylvius the Mad]

sassperella wrote...

It gives the companions a more unique look and personality of their own rather than some hashed up collection of armor that wasn't good enough for the main PC who always got first dibs.

Did people seriously do this?  Did they just give all the best gear to the PC and leave the scraps for the rest of the party?

That's not necessarily tactically sound.  Why would people do that?

[Sylvius the Mad]

PhoenixBlacke wrote...

As long as we can upgrade and make the armor better, I'm down for it somewhat. I do like everyone having their own look.

I want that look to suit their combat role.  If Isabela tanks, I would think she should be equipped like a tank.

Leliana could wear Massive Armour.  She could have an Armour score that was as good as anyone else in the party.  Developer comments have suggested we'll have a similar sort of freedom to customise the companions statistically.  So how does Isabela manage to have a high armour score without wearing any armour?

It's idiotic.

[Kerethos]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

PhoenixBlacke wrote...

As long as we can upgrade and make the armor better, I'm down for it somewhat. I do like everyone having their own look.

I want that look to suit their combat role.  If Isabela tanks, I would think she should be equipped like a tank.

Leliana could wear Massive Armour.  She could have an Armour score that was as good as anyone else in the party.  Developer comments have suggested we'll have a similar sort of freedom to customise the companions statistically.  So how does Isabela manage to have a high armour score without wearing any armour?

It's idiotic.

The rogue is not an efficient tank to begin with so I doubt more then a few took this approach at all. And given how the rogue works in DA2, where the class doesn't share anything with the Warrior, I'd imagine this is even more impractical. But should you wish to, I'd guess you would not stack up 50 armor, you'd max out her ability to dodge and not pick any talent that reduces of shifts threat.

But I doubt more then a handful of players will ever even attempt this, probably about as many as those who play through the game naked or without weapons. Why do I believe that? Because it's idiotic to even do it, on the level of making a melee mage with almost all points in strenght.

[Zlarm]

There were tons of these threads when it was first announced. And if I need to say it again I will: I dislike fixed companions armour almost as much as I dislike companions running into battle in their pajamas.

[Bluumberry]

I like it, simplifies companion armor management and sets and unique look to them.

[DragonRageGT]

Kerethos_ wrote...

To be honest, in the end every companon in DA:O wore more or less the same armor each time.

ME1 was even more extreme, as in the end most people just equiped them all with Colossos X armor. I don't mind individual outfits for the companions, I rather like them, since it gives them their own visual identity (something I felt was rather lacking in both ME and DA:O, since your companions looked like generic human enemies from all but some of the top level gear).

But you do know that to unlock Colossus X armor for the whole party you'd need at least 3 full playthroughs. Also to unlock Harcore and Insanity difficulties. So the previous runs we could also mess around with several different pieces of armor and it was all cool!

Also not entirely true about Origins. I never had any party members with the same outfit/weapons in different playthroughs and I'm talking over 20 full playthroughs. One exception only, Leliana, because she wears the Rogue Armor from the Trailer Mod which is the coolest armor and make her even hottier! (check the vids I linked to on page 7 of this thread)

AlanC9 wrote...

RageGT, can you clear something up for me?

Is it folks who are "young at heart" who like traditional RPG inventory? I always thought it's the kids who don't have the patience for the "deep" systems that older gamers love. Or do we have an alliance of 40- and 20-year-olds against the 30-year-olds? I kind of got that impression from the ME boards, actually.

I don't know, Alan. For me, anyone over 30 yrs old still playing videogames must be young at heart! Well, past 40 my dad was playing cards and other boring table games. Im 47, he's 87 and he's still playing cards and other boring table games. *yawns*

[FDrage]

Aurgelmir wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Aurgelmir wrote...

I don't like it but what is there to do?

Complain.  The market will eventually serve us.

I want to believe.

the truth is out there ...

[Felfenix]

http://social.biowar...14/polls/15954/

Modifié par Felfenix, 03 mars 2011 - 09:31 .

[FDrage]

RageGT wrote...

I don't know, Alan. For me, anyone over 30 yrs old still playing videogames must be young at heart! Well, past 40 my dad was playing cards and other boring table games. Im 47, he's 87 and he's still playing cards and other boring table games. *yawns*

Oih ... nothing against a good card game sitting around a table with your mates and having a pint while playing a game. ... .. and if you want to you can even do that in a pub.

Modifié par FDrage, 03 mars 2011 - 09:34 .

[The Lesser Evil]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I want that look to suit their combat role.  If Isabela tanks, I would think she should be equipped like a tank.

Leliana could wear Massive Armour.  She could have an Armour score that was as good as anyone else in the party.  Developer comments have suggested we'll have a similar sort of freedom to customise the companions statistically.  So how does Isabela manage to have a high armour score without wearing any armour?

It's idiotic.

Your companions have actual personalities. They don't do everything you want them to do. Isabela doesn't want to tank, and she doesn't want to wear massive armour. DA:O allowed you to completely throw a character's concept on its head (turning Morrigan into a healer, Zevran into an archer, etc), DAII doesn't. Is that a bad thing? I like that companions have some semblance of free will, it makes them come across as more 'real'.

[atheelogos]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

 Even if you don't count Isabella (who is the obvious "culprit"), almost everyone else is hardly wearing armor at all.

I think its because the outfits in DA2 make sense. While most of the outfits in ME2 did not.

[AkiKishi]

I have mixed feelings about it.

I feel less responsible for their wellbeing than I would if I had to equip them. If the way they dress get's them killed, tough luck on them.

But the idea that they are somehow more independent because of it. I don't buy that, they will still obey orders, the only difference being they will do it without having optimum eqipment for thier role in my strategy.

That's the difference between ME2 and DA2. In ME2 the NPCs pretty much did their own thing even if you could direct them in minor ways.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 03 mars 2011 - 09:54 .

[apoc_reg]

So i cant kit them out... thats a disappointment.

So when i find that cool looking armour i cant wear as a mage it just is.... useless? Why would they do that! Squad and inventory management is part of the game. Not all games need to appeal to everyone. DA:O sold great so why make these changes!!

Oh well, worse things happen at sea and the game clearly will be good still so whatever 

Modifié par apoc_reg, 03 mars 2011 - 09:58 .

[Vena_86]

There are important differences:
-In the Mass Effect universe armor is not bulky or restricting movement, because it is efficient high tech. Yet most of your "specialists" don't do the most logic thing and take advantage of that and rather run arround in pyjamas. In DA2 you can expect armor to restrict movement and thus having an actualy disadvantage that comes with the better protection so there is some reason to not wear it.
-DA2 does not take place on alien planets with hazardous, alien atmosphears. ME2 however does, making the pyjamas with exposed skin not only look impractical but outright stupid, going against logic and previously established serious, grounded feel of the ME universe. A breathing mask does not save you from extreme temperatures, JACK!
-DA2 has a system where armor actually provides protection (stat). The armor of the followers improves as they level. Furthermore, the appearance changes over the course of the story AND you can upgrade their armor. This has a lot more depth and satisfaction to it then simply unlocking an alternative skin with absoluteley no meaning to it. Why the hell is there still damage on Garrus' armor after you change it? Wouldn't it make sense for Grunt to recive some special armor after his right of passage? Instead he just gets the same black-orange skin everyone else does for no apparent reason, without explanation. It is just cheap and pointless.

[FDrage]

The Lesser Evil wrote...

Your companions have actual personalities. They don't do everything you want them to do. Isabela doesn't want to tank, and she doesn't want to wear massive armour. DA:O allowed you to completely throw a character's concept on its head (turning Morrigan into a healer, Zevran into an archer, etc), DAII doesn't. Is that a bad thing? I like that companions have some semblance of free will, it makes them come across as more 'real'.

At the same time they take away the choice. In DA:O you had it and they didn't loose personality due to it. Hack they could wear better armour but they didn't had to ... players choice. Morigan is the best examnple. she could wear her robes and even got an upgraded robe (that looked more of less the same) later on. Only got that once so not sure if it was random or I just was too blind to see it it ...
At least in DA:O my companience listend to my advice when I told them this and that was more practical or useful. Liliana listen to me when she changed to a leather armour instead of insisting on wearing thoise chantry robes against the High Dragon.
Now they are just stuburn telling me "I know best". Why give us control in a combat situation they should then have the same free will there then with what they wear.

Well ... that is the other way to see that whole argument about customziation. What is "more real" or "less real" is subjective .

While I don't disagree to have unique outfits and that they actually still contain stats and "upgradeablity of those stats" instead of just being a visual thing. It still would have been nice to have the choice of keeping the outfit inline with "their personality" and still be ablty to customize their visual outlook as well ... just like with Morigan.

[Kerethos]

RageGT wrote...

Kerethos_ wrote...

To be honest, in the end every companon in DA:O wore more or less the same armor each time.

ME1 was even more extreme, as in the end most people just equiped them all with Colossos X armor. I don't mind individual outfits for the companions, I rather like them, since it gives them their own visual identity (something I felt was rather lacking in both ME and DA:O, since your companions looked like generic human enemies from all but some of the top level gear).

But you do know that to unlock Colossus X armor for the whole party you'd need at least 3 full playthroughs. Also to unlock Harcore and Insanity difficulties. So the previous runs we could also mess around with several different pieces of armor and it was all cool!

Also not entirely true about Origins. I never had any party members with the same outfit/weapons in different playthroughs and I'm talking over 20 full playthroughs. One exception only, Leliana, because she wears the Rogue Armor from the Trailer Mod which is the coolest armor and make her even hottier! (check the vids I linked to on page 7 of this thread)

AlanC9 wrote...

RageGT, can you clear something up for me?

Is it folks who are "young at heart" who like traditional RPG inventory? I always thought it's the kids who don't have the patience for the "deep" systems that older gamers love. Or do we have an alliance of 40- and 20-year-olds against the 30-year-olds? I kind of got that impression from the ME boards, actually.

I don't know, Alan. For me, anyone over 30 yrs old still playing videogames must be young at heart! Well, past 40 my dad was playing cards and other boring table games. Im 47, he's 87 and he's still playing cards and other boring table games. *yawns*

Getting Colossus armor only took some loading by a merchant once you had reached a high enough level (50). You'd check his list of items, and if it wasn't there you'd reload and check again. That way you'd get the party in full Colossos by the end of your first playthrough. At least I had everyone in Colossos at the end of my first playthrough. But, that's really splitting hairs anyway.
 
Back to the topic at hand:
Without mods the amount of unique looking equipment in DA:O is fairly limited. The uniquely named armors, such as a few sets, are the rare exception, and I did for example use the Ancient Elven Armor, Templar armor and so on just for looks, but no matter what you wore your companions equipment never felt like it had any individuality, any personality, it was more like "the stuff that got left over" or "stuff I found on the road" too it all.

In DA2 each companion is more unique in both appearance and skill set, I like that. It adds personality where there used to be Barbie-/Ken doll of class 1, 2 or 3. I'm curious to see exactly how much we'll be able to affect their looks as the game progresses, but I have no issues with a more fixed look, as long as it doesn't adversely affect their performance in combat. That I can't dress Isabella in all leather or pump up her strength and put her in massive armor doesn't matter to me, as long as I can still change her stats to fit the combat role I use her for, by modifying said outfit, and she'll change or add to her outfit in a way that fits the story.

But then, too me, an RPG is as much about me being able to play a role as much as the characters themselves playing their roles. A character that’s acting like a doll for me to dress up diminishes that sense that they're an individual, something that mods on the PC actually could help add (as you yourself make reference to), as you'd get away from "generic looking armor X"-thing that's going on in Origins. And, as I'm playing the game on the Xbox 360, I can not take advantage of modifications in order to add that layer visual personality to the characters, something that many PC users, you included, can and does.
 
I’m not saying I want companions outfits handled like they where in ME2, where all you could do appearance wise was switch between 2 similar looks, since I would have wanted to affect their looks and combat stats.
*ramble start* But then again the outfits didn’t even make sense at times – I mean seriously, vacuum + breather over the mouth? It seems that someone forgot that the vacuum of space + non pressurised suit = your blood turns into gas… and that’s really just the start of your problems. I mean, there’s a reason you don’t wear your pyjamas during spacewalks! *ramble end*
But having companions that dress themselves isn’t automatically a bad thing, nor do I feel it subtracts from my role-playing experience, rather it adds to it by giving the companions a visual identity to go with their personality. But, perhaps I'm even more “old school” in that my RPG background comes from pen and paper role-playing, and thus it’s more about stats, abilities, personalities and the ability to fully play the role I’ve created in the game, then being able to dress up my rogue companions in massive armor that makes an RPG great for me.

[Ecaiki]

FDrage wrote...

Now they are just stuburn telling me "I know best". Why give us control in a combat situation they should then have the same free will there then with what they wear.

Look at it this way; since Isabela has managed to survive in the dangerous profession of pirate in that getup, then she obviously knows far better then you.  After all if her methods didn't work she'd be just another nameless corpse at the bottom of the ocean.

Aside from the lack of control complaint, I think this is the issue people have.  It's not how they could/would do it therefore it must be an invalid strategy.

[FDrage]

Ecaiki wrote...
Look at it this way; since Isabela has managed to survive in the dangerous profession of pirate in that getup, then she obviously knows far better then you.  After all if her methods didn't work she'd be just another nameless corpse at the bottom of the ocean.

Aside from the lack of control complaint, I think this is the issue people have.  It's not how they could/would do it therefore it must be an invalid strategy.

Well ... we don't know in how many fights Isballa was involved in. A duel is something different then a larger scale conflict where you don't always see whats coming after you. And she seems to have a pretty good idea of the former and we don't know anything about her experience of the later. And not knowing anything about it, everything is just and assumptrion and as valid as any other assumption.

Personally I think it is just another fruitless argument where neither side wants to see the other sided equal valid points, which is part of the point I want to make.

Beside tell that to Lilliana who insisted to try and fight against the High Dragon in her Chantry robes. After countless wipes (poor wade for having to stich that robe time and time again and Zeveran for having to wash them) she agreed that I had more of an idea on how to fight these type of enemies then a bard. She changed into the leather armour I weas carrying around in my bottomless bag and ... bingo ... we survived the fight.

Kerethos_ wrote...
Getting Colossus armor only took some
loading by a merchant once you had reached a high enough level (50).
You'd check his list of items, and if it wasn't there you'd reload and
check again. That way you'd get the party in full Colossos by the end of
your first playthrough. At least I had everyone in Colossos at the end
of my first playthrough. But, that's really splitting hairs anyway.
.

And then you could sell a few just before the end and then "buy it back" in the next playthrough ... if you never sold anything until you could buy it back.

Modifié par FDrage, 03 mars 2011 - 11:26 .

[AnotherAD]

FDrage wrote...

Beside tell that to Lilliana who insisted to try and fight against the High Dragon in her Chantry robes. After countless wipes (poor wade for having to stich that robe time and time again and Zeveran for having to wash them) she agreed that I had more of an idea on how to fight these type of enemies then a bard. She changed into the leather armour I weas carrying around in my bottomless bag and ... bingo ... we survived the fight. 

Making a arguement about Companion armor items in Origins comparing them to DA 2 Companion armor sets and Roleplaying at the same time. 

Fact is Armor items in Origins for Companions was junk your PC couldnt use or something to sell. 

Thing is I like that DA2 companions have their unique style. Because to me Origins armor was bland, my rogue and Leliana looked the same.  Alistair and my drunken Dwarf looked the same. If there was a another Golem in the game....they would look the same.  Do we need go into Helms for Origins?

I am sorry that companions armor style is set in stone and it hampers your roleplaying, so I am guessing you will have to be more creative in your roleplaying for your companion characters.  Because the DA2 companion armor syle is a good change.

Modifié par AnotherAD, 03 mars 2011 - 11:44 .

[Ecaiki]

FDrage wrote...

Well ... we don't know in how many fights Isballa was involved in. A duel is something different then a larger scale conflict where you don't always see whats coming after you. And she seems to have a pretty good idea of the former and we don't know anything about her experience of the later. And not knowing anything about it, everything is just and assumptrion and as valid as any other assumption.

Considering her profession, her (apparent) age, and how easily she wipes the floor with those guys in the bar, I'd say she's had quite a lot of experience.  Honestly I can't fathom what would make you think she lacks fighting experience just because she likes to duel.

Personally I think it is just another fruitless argument where neither side wants to see the other sided equal valid points, which is part of the point I want to make.

The bitter tune of all internet (and real life) debates I'm afraid.

Beside tell that to Lilliana who insisted to try and fight against the High Dragon in her Chantry robes. After countless wipes (poor wade for having to stich that robe time and time again and Zeveran for having to wash them) she agreed that I had more of an idea on how to fight these type of enemies then a bard. She changed into the leather armour I weas carrying around in my bottomless bag and ... bingo ... we survived the fight.

That's quite an illogical example, she would have switched to armor at some point after leaving Lothering.  Though I could see her armor having the chantry symbol on it somewhere.