269 réponses à ce sujet

[KratosAuron]

I dont mind the change at all really. In DA:O I never really changed that much to begin with anyway, when I found a look I liked I kept it regardless of the stats. Never had much problem with completion of the game doing that. "Wades Superior Dragonbone Plate Set+Corruption Helm" best looking armor set imop

[Sylvianus]

When I choose Isabella wears armor, it is already for me somehow interactive. See in the cutscenes, the garment that I have chosen, it makes me happy. Morrigan, Allistair, all went there. A player likes to appear his choices. How many players boast of their screens with their team?

If I need a game or a person I am following something imposed upon me, where I only see pictures, a controller team that I do not control at all in fact ,I certainly will not play Dragon Age. I take an action game or adventure. If everything ends up being taxed, dragon age will not be different from another kind of game. This is not to make some decisions that will change anything. That is not a rpg.

For me it is very important not to be mistaken. Not being able to choose the clothes of our characters, is not somehow make them more independent. Clothing, weapons, armor, are subjective, the rpg encourages the subjective point of view and customization. Now we control a team. Not just a player. The RP has nothing to do there. Otherwise it would not be logical, Isabella wear this garment ultra-lightweight in fight.

Otherwise if we follow your logic, all that to make our character more alive and independent, as it can not choose his weapons, he has only one, with only some clothes and that is all taxed.

It merely limited, depleting an area of the game But I can understand the point of view of the cost with the graphics.

I just hope that an interim solution will be found. There is no single path, no one direction, more unsatisfactory is strong for a vast majority of players.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 02 mars 2011 - 03:59 .

[Ignoble Fat Man]

Rawgrim wrote...

Well...you can`t really change their weapons too much either. Rogues are limited to bows or daggers. You can give them different bows and different daggers, of course. But still...its more than a little limiting.

Sounds like what you really want is just a shell that you could create your own choose your own adventure game in that has some pretty graphics.

[dshoub]

Since I couldn't access the inventory in the demo anyway, I didn't even realize we can't change the armor. Kinda sucks, but as others have said it was like that in ME2 so I'm kinda used to it. Though I will say that for the most part I liked the default look of the squad members "armor" in ME2 so it didn't really bother me to much. As for DA2, no idea what my party members outfits will look like (aside from the way they looked in the demo) so only time will tell if I end up liking it or not.

[Ignoble Fat Man]

Sylvianus wrote...

For me it is very important not to be mistaken. Not being able to choose the clothes of our characters, is not somehow make them more independent. Clothing, weapons, armor, are subjective, the rpg encourages the subjective point of view and customization. Now we control a team. Not just a player. The RP has nothing to do there. Otherwise it would not be logical, Isabella wear this garment ultra-lightweight in fight.

I just hope that an interim solution will be found. There is no single path, no one direction, more unsatisfactory is strong for a vast majority of players.

See I realize your issue.  The NPC's are not in fact our characters they are tools we use along the way our character is HAWKE.  I am not saying it wasn't nice having all of your party be like your own PC in Origins but that is not what DA:2 is doing.  This is the story of HAWKE the Champion not Varric or Isabella.  Is it nice to have customization of the NPCs....yes that is why we can still customize their skills and armor stats and the weapons they use.  We just can't change the visuals on their armors.

[Maconbar]

I don't believe that your characterization that it is unsatisfactory for a "vast majority of players" is accurate. Granted it isn't my ideal approach but I prefer DA:2's approach to the DA:O's which allows choice in armor but lacks independent body models for the companions. In DA:O if you put Wynne, Morrigan, and Leliana in the same leather armor, they have the exact, same bodies. That seemed like a terrible design decision to me.

[Eshaye]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

 Even if you don't count Isabella (who is the obvious "culprit"), almost everyone else is hardly wearing armor at all.

There are not IN SPACE. 

[Ignoble Fat Man]

Eshaye wrote...

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

 Even if you don't count Isabella (who is the obvious "culprit"), almost everyone else is hardly wearing armor at all.

They are not IN SPACE. 

Fixed it for you

[CaptainBlackGold]

Dr. wonderful wrote...

People want lifelike and want the Characters to act on their own...then why can't they choose how their fight and wear their clothes and weapons.

Though this comment is a few pages back, I want to respond to it as being "typical" of some of the "anti-companion armor change" group. This group also includes all those who dismiss the whole problem as people wanting to play "dress up" or "paper dolls" with our companions.

The fact is, they are characters, dressed by SOMEONE - either Bioware, or the Player. They are not independant entities but a real live person has to make a decision on what they will equip and how they look.

Now, if you like how Bioware played "paper dolls" with the companions' armor, then hey, different strokes and all. The problem is that if you don't like the look (for whatever reason), then you are stuck with it - removing player agency. And let us all remember the infamous "mage hats" when it comes to Bioware's "artistic" tastes in armor. Someone in the design process thought those looked good and everyone ridicules them for it.

If the above "anti-change" sentiment is to be consistent, then there should be a script that the Companions use whever a new piece of gear is picked up (or a store is visited) that makes them say something like "Hey that armor/sword/staff/bow is better than what I have, can I use/buy it?" But of course, that would simply add another level of detail and coding that is unnecessary when the Player acts in the best interests of the entire Party. The Player chosing weapons and armor for his Party is simply another abstraction and in no way detracts from the Companions being seen as their own, unique, individual characters.

Hey, I know this is long and for that I apologize; if you like the change - more power to you. But when some of us complain about it, please do not use ad hominum, poison the well or other logical fallacies to justify your personal taste. It is really OK for you to like what you like - and for a lot of us others to really dislike it for the reasons we stated.

Thanks for letting me vent - seriously, no offense intended to anyone here, especially the fine folks at Bioware who are famous for loving their fans, creating wonderful games and going the "extra mile" to provide us with a tool set so we can mod in the armors that we really want... hint hint hint

[Sylvianus]

See I realize your issue. The NPC's are not in fact our characters they are tools we use along the way our character is HAWKE.

Yes I control only Hawk. But I could find just as many reasons for changes in my team. Isabella can change clothes, all other companions too. Isabella may decide to purchase new swords, isabella may decide to wear armor for combat.

Why does it ever change? I mean, this story of giving a personality doesn't make sense. We can give them a garment by default, but I see nothing that justifies that keeps the same until the end. Especially if it's just to show her breasts. And if there are changes, at least leave us a little choice.

If we controlled only Hawk, it doesn't bother, but the fact is that we control an entire team. It can only be unsatisfactory and frustrating. Especially if the only garment worn, you don't like it.

The RPG is based on imagination. Do not spoil. :'(

Otherwise, I feel that we agree. ^ ^

Modifié par Sylvianus, 02 mars 2011 - 04:17 .

[Alamadis]

KratosAuron wrote...

I dont mind the change at all really. In DA:O I never really changed that much to begin with anyway, when I found a look I liked I kept it regardless of the stats. Never had much problem with completion of the game doing that. "Wades Superior Dragonbone Plate Set+Corruption Helm" best looking armor set imop

Same gear I used.  Loved the look.  Combined with my 2 handed starfang.  Felt like a sexy beast. 

I both like and dislike the inability to customize the look of my characters.  On one side I enjoy the freedom to deck them out in whatever strange combination of gear I feel appropriate, but at the same time I can't say that I truly cared about the lack of that ability even in mass effect.  In mass effect 2 I wore the same armor from the beginning to the end.  Lacked variety, but I looked better than my character had looked in ME1 from start to finish.  Though I did like that titan gear...Obviously the companions are the main concern, but my point here is that static doesn't necessarily need to be bad.  It relies heavily on how their appearances end up actually looking.

Anyway, in origins I found that most of the characters appearances were irrelevant to me.  I didn't like the look of the robes and leather was rather bland.  I only liked plate.  As such I only really focused on Alistair with his templar gear--which I loved--and my main character's Wade set.  Morrigan I couldn't bring myself to change since she looked horrible in just about everything compared to her regular gear and again leather just didn't matter to me at all.  Since 2 fighters 1 mage and 1 rogue was my preffered group, I ended up caring very little about look.  By the time I was at the dwarf gates--where I bought my templar gear--I was basically fully equipped and never changed through the rest of the game.  I also happen to be the type of player who prefers to immerse myself in one character and interact with my environment instead of controlling everyone around me.  Not a fan of the hive mind effect as I fondly refer to it.

Point being, for me, as long as the character appearances are appropriate for the character and look at least moderately good I'm quite content with static apperances.

Modifié par Alamadis, 02 mars 2011 - 04:33 .

[AlanC9]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...
If the above "anti-change" sentiment is to be consistent, then there should be a script that the Companions use whever a new piece of gear is picked up (or a store is visited) that makes them say something like "Hey that armor/sword/staff/bow is better than what I have, can I use/buy it?"

This sounds like a great idea. Of course, to keep the VO work feasible you'd have to limit the number of weapons and such , but I'm OK with that too.

[sythsillis]

Why all the fixation on armour? Learning to maneuver your character so they don't get hit in the first place is far more important than whatever armour you have. The tank may be an exception, but it should not be that big a deal for the other classes.

[Cloaking_Thane]

BUT THE ORDER DICTATES!

[outlaw1109]

Alot of the point of this is that alot of a character's personality is often displayed by what they wear/how they look.  I can understand that something is taken away from the game by limiting what we can do with companion armor.  Personally, I don't feel that the RP element is damaged or lost because that kind of control seems like more of a DM decision than a PC decision.  Because companions or no, they're still NPC's.

In point of fact, Bioware has illustrated that this game is more about the individual than the whole.  They aren't calling Isabella and Verrick and Hawk Champions.  Hawk is the champion.

I'm not sure I like the idea of features being removed from Origins because it was a superior game, but, having no evidence on the quality of the feature itself, I cannot say whether or not this is a good move, but I can understand the motives.

[Naitaka]

Universal Dye Kit
The Winter's Forge
Any number of custom armor/clothing model

Reason why DA:O companion armor customization is about a thousand times superior to that of DA2, but I can understand why they did it. (Human being the only playable race in DA2 for one.)

[Buffy-Summers]

I want to be able to give Fenris some + healing high defense armor instead of what ever he might have, because i think its the best for warriors


If they kow tow to the , but its boring i dont want to have to change armor, dont make me" crowd, are they going to bow down to the , i dont want to ever level them up crowd?

On goes the slippery slope toward action game

[Cloaking_Thane]

Buffy-Summers wrote...

I want to be able to give Fenris some + healing high defense armor instead of what ever he might have, because i think its the best for warriors


If they kow tow to the , but its boring i dont want to have to change armor, dont make me" crowd, are they going to bow down to the , i dont want to ever level them up crowd?

On goes the slippery slope toward action game

AFAIK u can give him runes to have high health and defense not to mention rings etc

[AustinKain]

ENCHANTMENT!

[Chancer15]

Ok in ME2 i kinda hated not being able to give them awsome armor at first but they got stronger over time and could take more damage so i did not mind. But i wish i could of had a few differnt options besides changing the color of thanes awsome outfit WHOOT THANE. Sorry fanboy moment. In DA2 there Outfits change over time so that is a good thing i dont have to see the same outfit for like 50 hours. Also you can upgrade there outfits with ruins i think. SO it is better then ME2's companion outfits

[Rylor Tormtor]

Nimpe wrote...

They got over it.

I am not over it.

[Rylor Tormtor]

Ignoble Fat Man wrote...

Maconbar wrote...

True. It is a team. All that I am suggesting is that this team is comprised in theory of the PC and "apparently independent" companions and that BW has developed the characterization of these companions that we as the PC interact with. For some players the decision that BW made to shift appearance choices for the companions away from the player could increase the "illusion" that the companions are independent.

I don't think this is the primary reason they did it.  They did it to increase performance of the rendering engines primarily and a secondary bonus is the illusion of companions being semi autonomous.

No, they did it to sell costume packs.

[Felfenix]

I like the NPCs having their own visuals. It's pretty presumptuous to think everybody or even the majority agrees with a certain preference or opinion just because those most vocal on a forum say so. A lot of people don't visit the forum, and many who do don't feel like arguing with the very angry vocal people who never let up. Fortunately the devs don't make game design decisions based on who can shout the loudest on an internet forum.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Khayness wrote...

I have brought up the same argument with items maching my preferred playstyle for the characters, all I got were "this is BioWare's game" answers in return.

And yet, the Lead Designer said ,"Hey, it's your game!  Go ahead!" - so there's some uncertainty about that.

[Sylvius the Mad]

baddogkelevra wrote...

Different people enjoy different parts of gaming. I agree with Ajwol, I disliked what I considered to be the tedium of micromanaging my companions. This change gives me the flexibility and freedom to only worry about saving armors for my main character, rather than hoarding every piece out of fear that it be .002% better than my allies' current gear.

First, that's now what Ajwol said.  Ajwol implicitly asserted that inventory management was not part of gameplay.  Whether it's enjoyable is immaterial.

Second, your companions' equipment wasn't kept hidden from you.  It wasn't a secret.  You should have been able to tell right away whether a piece of gear was an upgrade.  Your justification makes no sense.

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 02 mars 2011 - 06:05 .