269 réponses à ce sujet

[Blackened25]

The armor issue doesn't bother me too much I guess, though I don't really welcome any loss of control over what i do with my party's gear. It seems a bit silly though to discover some great armor or shield that I can't use but Aveline would love to have, but in essence the game makes her tell me "i'm sorry, but i choose to wear my normal clothes that showcase my unique identity over having a better chance of living through our next mission by wearing that great new gear". It's not realisitc, and frankly doesn't even make sense. I'm just glad everything else is customizable.

[Buffy-Summers]

Cloaking_Thane wrote...

Buffy-Summers wrote...

I want to be able to give Fenris some + healing high defense armor instead of what ever he might have, because i think its the best for warriors


If they kow tow to the , but its boring i dont want to have to change armor, dont make me" crowd, are they going to bow down to the , i dont want to ever level them up crowd?

On goes the slippery slope toward action game

AFAIK u can give him runes to have high health and defense not to mention rings etc

Yes you can, rings, amulet and runes

But not gloves, chest piece, helm, boots

From the boots alone thats enough to reduce resistances to all elements by 5% (Juggernaunt boots) Now imagine better boots or all the other items we cant change. It is not a little change

[Blackened25]

Double post...

Modifié par Blackened25, 02 mars 2011 - 06:15 .

[DragonRageGT]

Amazing how some people try to justify everything. If not being able to control what a party member wears makes them "more independent" or gives the "illusion" of it, then, well, why give the player actual control over the party members? Give them some kicking azz AI like the skeleton companion in Risen or any companion in Gothic 3 or The Witcher and don't make the player decide what spell or special attack will the companions use.

Truth is, it is all a big b/s! It is a cheap production/design decision prolly made by some people who worked on ME and were not old enough to have played Baldur's Gate and spend hours selecting the right colour combo for each of their party member's gear!

This mod and its video would never have been done if Origins had had the same "design decision":

- most awesome DA video, enterily made by a player using the cinematics toolset to show the new equipment he designed for the game. It was praised by some BW staff who said so in the mod page in "Projects".

And this is his mod being used by me in the actual game, thanks to my ability to choose what my party members were to wear!

[AlanC9]

RageGT wrote...

Amazing how some people try to justify everything. If not being able to control what a party member wears makes them "more independent" or gives the "illusion" of it, then, well, why give the player actual control over the party members? Give them some kicking azz AI like the skeleton companion in Risen or any companion in Gothic 3 or The Witcher and don't make the player decide what spell or special attack will the companions use.

Works for me. And you forgot NWN1.

 It is a cheap production/design decision prolly made by some people who worked on ME and were not old enough to have played Baldur's Gate and spend hours selecting the right colour combo for each of their party member's gear!

Or people like me; old enough to have played BG and not at all interested in preserving those aspects of its gameplay.

[Morroian]

Buffy-Summers wrote...
Yes you can, rings, amulet and runes

But not gloves, chest piece, helm, boots

From the boots alone thats enough to reduce resistances to all elements by 5% (Juggernaunt boots) Now imagine better boots or all the other items we cant change. It is not a little change

Why shouldn't rings, amulets or runes give a similar change?

[DragonRageGT]

AlanC9 wrote...

Works for me. And you forgot NWN1.

Prolly because I never took a hireling with any of my chars in NWN. Only solo worked for me in that game! =)

Or people like me; old enough to have played BG and not at all interested in preserving those aspects of its gameplay.

people like you = grumpy! There are some of us old guys who still are young at heart! =) (j/k, at least about the grumpy part). And those aspects of gameplay in Origins were a lot more sophisticated than selecting the colours in a 16 colours pallete (which is actually all we can do with the default armor in ME2 - hated all the others so much that I only played with N7 armor in different colours and stuff!)

[Rawgrim]

Ignoble Fat Man wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Well...you can`t really change their weapons too much either. Rogues are limited to bows or daggers. You can give them different bows and different daggers, of course. But still...its more than a little limiting.

Sounds like what you really want is just a shell that you could create your own choose your own adventure game in that has some pretty graphics.

Nope. I have been playing rpgs since the late 80s, so good graphics isnt a must. What i do want, though, is to be able to customize my party. Upgrading Isabela`s bra with runes just isn`t the same thing. And when rogues are limited to either use a bow, or dual wield daggers as weapons, it limits the game ALOT.

[Ecaiki]

Personally I'm fine with companions having their own looks, and not being able to decide so much about their skills.  But then I've always respected an NPCs base design, so no sword and board for Oghren, and no blood magic for Wynne.

Limiting myself?  Maybe.

However if I wanted full control over the party I wouldn't be playing an RPG like this, I'd play IWD or SoZ for NWN2 instead.

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

The fact is, they are characters, dressed by SOMEONE - either Bioware, or the Player. They are not independant entities but a real live person has to make a decision on what they will equip and how they look.

That is where you're incorrect.  They are in fact individual entities, you just happen to be controlling their actions for a time.  Sure you get to pick where they go, and which combat move(s) they use and when, but they still act independently of you in cutscenes.

Now, if you like how Bioware played "paper dolls" with the companions' armor, then hey, different strokes and all. The problem is that if you don't like the look (for whatever reason), then you are stuck with it - removing player agency. And let us all remember the infamous "mage hats" when it comes to Bioware's "artistic" tastes in armor. Someone in the design process thought those looked good and everyone ridicules them for it.

Just like real people, how odd.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Second, your companions' equipment wasn't kept hidden from you.  It wasn't a secret.  You should have been able to tell right away whether a piece of gear was an upgrade.  Your justification makes no sense.

Ah but it does.  You have no way of knowing (unless you read ahead) how many companions you're getting, or what they will need for equipment.  There's also no way to check mid-dungeon if that robe you scored is an upgrade for Morrigan if she's not with you.

Modifié par Ecaiki, 02 mars 2011 - 07:49 .

[outlaw1109]

Video games evolve. That's the reason we have them in our home now instead of having to travel to an arcade to actually play. There have been some outstanding games with great inventory systems in the past, but that's all it is: the past. Not saying it's going to be terrific, but let's at least see what this one is like before saying "Oh no! Someone changed something! UGH! It makes the game unplayable."

Want things to stay the same? Go play origins again.

BTW, origins limited what weapons rogues could use as well...it wasn't until a certain level that you could dual wield anything other than daggers.

[AngryFrozenWater]

The reason for the change of the companion's armor is simple: BioWare wants to sell DLCs with new companion armor. I am joking about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get to see those.

[TwistedComplex]

Complaining about squad armor was last weeks complaint. This week it's game length. Keep up with the schedule

[Sylvius the Mad]

Ecaiki wrote...

Ah but it does.  You have no way of knowing (unless you read ahead) how many companions you're getting, or what they will need for equipment.

No, but your character can't know the future.  I'm only going to defend the game's failure to help you metagame.

There's also no way to check mid-dungeon if that robe you scored is an upgrade for Morrigan if she's not with you.

Her gear didn't change while you were gone.  If you wanted to have those numbers handy, you should have recorded them.

Are you honestly complaining that the game held you accountable for your own bad decision?

[SmokeyNinjas]

Long as their armor has good customisation i think it will turn out ok

[Morroian]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The reason for the change of the companion's armor is simple: BioWare wants to sell DLCs with new companion armor. I am joking about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get to see those.

Maybe they will I dunno and neither do you but they did have reasons apart from that, and we will at least be able to customise bonuses and the armour will upgrade and change.

[BlackwaterUp2]

Okay, lets just look at it this way.

I'll use Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood as an example, all the characters in that game have specifically designed suits, yet you could choose the style of their outfit. You could also choose what style of equipment they are allowed to have on them.


But I suppose that design template doesn't matter because it doesn't really effect gameplay right? Wearing a certain outfit doesn't let you survive longer or shorter, same as in DA2, the clothes for everyone but Hawke are just for aestetics. Their rings are what really controls the attack, defense, etc...

Thus, the fact that the character's outfits evolve during the game is actually a branch of the storyline, it gives you a bit of insight into how they've been living during the various time skips. Because i'm sure we can at least all agree that DA2's storyline WILL be skipping around in the timeline, that's been confirmed and we've seen it in the demo.

[Ecaiki]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

No, but your character can't know the future.  I'm only going to defend the game's failure to help you metagame.

Exactly, so his original statement about having to hoard gear for NPCs is an accurate one.

Her gear didn't change while you were gone.  If you wanted to have those numbers handy, you should have recorded them.

Are you honestly complaining that the game held you accountable for your own bad decision?

No it didn't, but that information isn't readily available at any time, so the game is keeping it secret in a fashion.

I find it amusing that it's my fault the game doesn't provide said information, considering it's designed around not being able to bring every companion, and thus not have access to all information all the time.  It's not like BG where you only have (at most) 6 party members and can easily check.  Instead (for DA:O) you have only 4, and then 1.5x that back at camp, that's a lot of stats and equipment to have to constantly jot down and update.  I'd go as far as to say it's a failure of the game to not provide non-active NPC data at all times, not a failure of the player to note information they shouldn't have to.

BlackwaterUp2 wrote...

But I suppose that design template doesn't matter because it doesn't really effect gameplay right? Wearing a certain outfit doesn't let you survive longer or shorter, same as in DA2, the clothes for everyone but Hawke are just for aestetics. Their rings are what really controls the attack, defense, etc...

Slight correction; they have their own look, however you can still "enchant" that look with whatever stats you wish.  You can give Isabela all the dex and crit you want, but you won't get her to put on pants any time soon.

Modifié par Ecaiki, 02 mars 2011 - 10:03 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Morroian wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

The reason for the change of the companion's armor is simple: BioWare wants to sell DLCs with new companion armor. I am joking about it, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get to see those.

Maybe they will I dunno and neither do you but they did have reasons apart from that, and we will at least be able to customise bonuses and the armour will upgrade and change.

So... If you are a mage and find great warrior armor you just sell it like the other stuff. Hmmm. I wonder what is happening with that. Or do you find great mage stuff instead? That's something that crossed my mind.

[FDrage]

IN one way I like unique looks as that goes hand in hand with their personality (e.g. their own taste). However I would still like to have the opportunity to equipe them with a random armour, which I don't have and that isn't good. 
At least for DA2 there are still stats attached to ones unique armour ...

Inarborat wrote...

It's not evolving and you're a damn fool if you think that's why party customization was cut. It's to sell DLC appearance packs with those leftover Bioware points.

where you are always 10 points short from the full price anyway ... always .

[Maconbar]

RageGT wrote...

Amazing how some people try to justify everything. If not being able to control what a party member wears makes them "more independent" or gives the "illusion" of it, then, well, why give the player actual control over the party members? Give them some kicking azz AI like the skeleton companion in Risen or any companion in Gothic 3 or The Witcher and don't make the player decide what spell or special attack will the companions use.

Truth is, it is all a big b/s! It is a cheap production/design decision prolly made by some people who worked on ME and were not old enough to have played Baldur's Gate and spend hours selecting the right colour combo for each of their party member's gear!

This mod and its video would never have been done if Origins had had the same "design decision":

- most awesome DA video, enterily made by a player using the cinematics toolset to show the new equipment he designed for the game. It was praised by some BW staff who said so in the mod page in "Projects".

And this is his mod being used by me in the actual game, thanks to my ability to choose what my party members were to wear!

I am not trying to justify BW's decision for you or for anyone that takes a position similar to your's. I get that you and many others don't like the change. But unique body models and limitations to gear choice doesn't automatically make things worse for everyone.

Ideally I would like to have unique body models with a selection of armor tailored to each companion.

[daywalker03]

Inarborat wrote...

It's not evolving and you're a damn fool if you think that's why party customization was cut. It's to sell DLC appearance packs with those leftover Bioware points.

If that was the case, why do Bethany, Carver, Avaline, Merrill and Varric have multiple outfits that they will change into on their own, while Isabella and Fenris only have one? The same goes for Sebastian Vael; he only has one outfit that I'm aware of.

[outlaw1109]

Inarborat wrote...

It's not evolving and you're a damn fool if you think that's why party customization was cut. It's to sell DLC appearance packs with those leftover Bioware points.

Actually, since a lot of devs are going the "leave out content so we can charge more for it later" route (aka DLC), I would consider that evolution.  Just because you don't like it, doesn't change the fact.

[CosmicTony]

Sorry not seeing the complaint worthy downside to letting go of playing dress-ups with my companions? Yeah, I would prefer that all my party members have say, 3-4 unique "Attire sets" I can collect, each.
I mean that would be perfect actually. Like finding it in a store, or unlocking it through player interactions. Why wouldn't they do that actually?

I was mostly glad of the reduction of the junk in ME2. Admittedly characters attire didn't often make sense for harsh environments but I took a breath and remembered how BS most sci-fi is anyway and just enjoyed the story and fun gameplay.  

I am going to be Hawke, not the 6+ people in my Party. Why would I tell them how to dress?

DLC attire... thats going to happen, its the industry now, the value is determined by the consumers and its a high profit margin item. It's not going away, its going to get "worse". Of course much of it has been used as a way of stalling percieved rental market loses and earning at least something from second hand retailers on the side. Until people denounce capitalism you'll just have to suck it up.