269 réponses à ce sujet

[Lucian820]

James Raynor wrote...

as long as the characters have sexy clothes for the ladies and cool armors for the men then it's ok I guess besides we can't do anything about it we can only hope for mods to be released that allow such things

Why can't the men have sexy armor and the women cool armor?

[Briallen]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

 Even if you don't count Isabella (who is the obvious "culprit"), almost everyone else is hardly wearing armor at all.

Maybe you're just not looking in the right places. I know I've been doing my fair share of complaining about it. I wouldn't even care that much if the squadmates actually were wearing armor in the first place. As it stands, Isabela going into vicious bloody combat wearing no pants is just as ludicrous as Jack from Mass Effect 2 going into battle wearing nothing but a strap across her nipples. That was the main reason I never took Jack anywhere in ME2, and it's also the reason I won't be taking Isabela anywhere. She was created as meat for fanboys and they're welcome to her. I myself have no desire to stare at her uncovered asscheeks.

[Aurgelmir]

For me its just another option I enjoyed that is no longer on the table, and unlikely to ever be again.

I don't like it but what is there to do? Bioware say they're evolving RPGs to give the players a more 'focused gameplay experience', they then pick up another piece of revered content and throw it on the scrapheap of gaming history.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Aurgelmir wrote...

I don't like it but what is there to do?

Complain.  The market will eventually serve us.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Snowheart1: I agree with you. If this is a trend at BioWare then DA3 and ME3 will be point and click adventures with a cool story.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Another trend I don't like: ME1 started a franchise and was highly successful. When ME2 came all of sudden ME1 was painted by the (so called) fans as one of the worst games in BW's history. The same thing is happening now with DA:O.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 02 mars 2011 - 08:55 .

[Aurgelmir]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Aurgelmir wrote...

I don't like it but what is there to do?

Complain.  The market will eventually serve us.

I want to believe.

[Sylvianus]

Please Bioware, at least one armor for Isabella.
She had in dao, I don't see why she doesn't possess in this episode. Just that.

It was eventually offered to Miranda in M2, I hope there will also be a favorable response on this.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 02 mars 2011 - 10:38 .

[DragonRageGT]

Blastback wrote...

SnowHeart1 wrote...

Not sure why I'm bothering but... look, it comes down to playstyle and personal preference, maybe also a bit of traditionalism. DA is billed as an RPG. Okay, an "action RPG" but still an RPG. Technically, it's a CRPG (computer-RPG) because a real RPG requires a degree of freedom and on-the-fly improvisation a computer program just can't provide. For at least 20 years, it has been a staple of CRPGs (at least Western ones) to have inventory systems. The idea behind this is a classic staple of RPG, which is getting loot and having to make choices between different powers that the pieces of loot provide. ("Gee, I can have this +5 Breastplate which will protect me from lots of hits, or the +2 Chainmail with 30% fire resistance, which will help against those fireball casting mages and red dragons.")

Maybe that's needlessly complicated to some people (e.g., "I just want them to look cool and do their own thing so I can focus on playing my own character.") but those of us who are CRPG-geeks love these systems; it is part of the reason (not the only reason, but a big reason on its own) as to why we love these kinds of games. ME2 completely ripped that system out. In fairness, ME's inventory system was... okay, not just cumbersome, it was bad. But they just chucked the baby out with the bathwater. "Two weapons, and your companions' armor doesn't do sh** (except look cool, or at least whatever we think "cool" is). Enjoy!" Some of you may think that's excellent and, if so, I'm genuinely happy for you. It is one less mechanic in the game that gets in your way of doing whatever it is you do enjoy. For some of us, however, it is part of the game that we really enjoy and we're sad to see it go.

Personally, I think the only reason there hasn't been as much griping about the DA2 system is they haven't completely chucked the inventory system. You still select weapons, rings, belts, etc. And, unlike ME2, companions armor does change over time so there isn't a sense of it being static* -- it evolves with the character. This may be the "improvement" that the ME2 designers failed to see. But for RPG purists (or traditionalists, let's not get hung up on semantics), it is still a loss because, however it's dressed up, it takes a degree of control away from us. You may be happy with what you see as "streamlining", but we are unhappy with what see as "stripping down".

* A change in color scheme is not the same, and that's the only thing you got to do in ME2 without the purchase of the appearance packs.

This

This #2!

Plus, from some magazine review:

"After playing five hours of Dragon Age II, I can already tell that a certain subset of hardcore gamers will be upset. If you’re a PC elitist who was concerned that this sequel was being simplified to make it work better on consoles, well, you’re kind of right."

And this too:

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Another trend I don't like: ME1 started a franchise and was highly successful. When ME2 came all of sudden ME1 was painted by the (so called) fans as one of the worst games in BW's history. The same thing is happening now with DA:O.

Actually, people without good and solid argument will have to do that. ME1 inventory management was very cool and part of what made the game great to me. The way I can dress up my whole squad into the same type of armor is awesome. A full squad wearing the coolest Colossus X armor set is so fraking cool! Pink&Black FTW!!!

[Aurgelmir]

Spot on RageGT and the others.

[lostspline]

MaxBendu2 wrote...

"True" was actually in referance to the only comparison that can be made - Real Life. No one wants realistic just yet but I am saying that while some see things as becoming overly simplified, or dumbed down, others get that it's more about the story and the gameplay then the materialism aspect of loot and aesthetics. Is your fun factor and enjoyment tied only too being able to mess around with Party attire? Or were you really drawn to this world because you want to find out how you can make it play out?

I don't think anyone will ever want realistic.  In Real Life, it's harder to be a hero.

On the issue of "story and the gameplay" vs. "loot and aesthetic", I'm definitely on the side of gameplay.  That's why I would rather have the choice to upgrade the companions instead of unique aesthetics for each companion.

But, as you point out, I will probably still enjoy the game.  I just won't enjoy it in the same way since they decided to value aesthetics over gameplay.

MaxBendu2 wrote...
Anyway, your abstraction observations are true, just meaningless if you are trying to make an argument for customisable Character attire. You just made the point that maybe people should accept it like they would not being able to explore the whole city. For all we know the conceit is unseen that Hawke (you) have agreed not to judge everyones wardrobe yet get on with commanding them in battle. Just like you may accept the conceit is Hawke will not try to enter buildings he has no right too. Its all good, hopefully people can get past it and have some fun.

My abstraction argument (i.e., it makes sense for a party to divide gear) is against the realism argument (i.e., it's not realistic to dress your friends).  Anyway, you're right that people can accept it as just another limitation of the current abstraction.  But, some of us would prefer an abstraction that allows outfitting an entire party.

[Quething]

As far as the theoretical lower volume of complaints goes, there's also the fact that I think we're all expecting DA:2 to be pretty moddable. It's been two days and somebody's already cracked the inventory and character design for the bloody demo, after all. I'm less irritated by Isabella's clothes than I was Samara's not just because Isabella won't be wandering through chlorine gas with no pants, but also because I anticipate some enterprising modder will soon find a way to let me give her some.

I mean that doesn't make it any less annoying or stupid a design choice to a traditionalist, but it does make us (at least those of us on PC) more apt to hope it's not an irreversible one.

Modifié par Quething, 03 mars 2011 - 04:16 .

[Radwar]

RageGT wrote...

Blastback wrote...

SnowHeart1 wrote...

Not sure why I'm bothering but... look, it comes down to playstyle and personal preference, maybe also a bit of traditionalism. DA is billed as an RPG. Okay, an "action RPG" but still an RPG. Technically, it's a CRPG (computer-RPG) because a real RPG requires a degree of freedom and on-the-fly improvisation a computer program just can't provide. For at least 20 years, it has been a staple of CRPGs (at least Western ones) to have inventory systems. The idea behind this is a classic staple of RPG, which is getting loot and having to make choices between different powers that the pieces of loot provide. ("Gee, I can have this +5 Breastplate which will protect me from lots of hits, or the +2 Chainmail with 30% fire resistance, which will help against those fireball casting mages and red dragons.")

Maybe that's needlessly complicated to some people (e.g., "I just want them to look cool and do their own thing so I can focus on playing my own character.") but those of us who are CRPG-geeks love these systems; it is part of the reason (not the only reason, but a big reason on its own) as to why we love these kinds of games. ME2 completely ripped that system out. In fairness, ME's inventory system was... okay, not just cumbersome, it was bad. But they just chucked the baby out with the bathwater. "Two weapons, and your companions' armor doesn't do sh** (except look cool, or at least whatever we think "cool" is). Enjoy!" Some of you may think that's excellent and, if so, I'm genuinely happy for you. It is one less mechanic in the game that gets in your way of doing whatever it is you do enjoy. For some of us, however, it is part of the game that we really enjoy and we're sad to see it go.

Personally, I think the only reason there hasn't been as much griping about the DA2 system is they haven't completely chucked the inventory system. You still select weapons, rings, belts, etc. And, unlike ME2, companions armor does change over time so there isn't a sense of it being static* -- it evolves with the character. This may be the "improvement" that the ME2 designers failed to see. But for RPG purists (or traditionalists, let's not get hung up on semantics), it is still a loss because, however it's dressed up, it takes a degree of control away from us. You may be happy with what you see as "streamlining", but we are unhappy with what see as "stripping down".

* A change in color scheme is not the same, and that's the only thing you got to do in ME2 without the purchase of the appearance packs.

This

This #2!

Plus, from some magazine review:

"After playing five hours of Dragon Age II, I can already tell that a certain subset of hardcore gamers will be upset. If you’re a PC elitist who was concerned that this sequel was being simplified to make it work better on consoles, well, you’re kind of right."

And this too:

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Another trend I don't like: ME1 started a franchise and was highly successful. When ME2 came all of sudden ME1 was painted by the (so called) fans as one of the worst games in BW's history. The same thing is happening now with DA:O.

Actually, people without good and solid argument will have to do that. ME1 inventory management was very cool and part of what made the game great to me. The way I can dress up my whole squad into the same type of armor is awesome. A full squad wearing the coolest Colossus X armor set is so fraking cool! Pink&Black FTW!!!

I agree with both of you. That's why I prefer ME1 over ME2. It's as if the new generation of gamer's are either lazy or gaming companies like Bioware think they are and are pushing those simplifications down our throats.

[Kerethos]

To be honest, in the end every companon in DA:O wore more or less the same armor each time.

ME1 was even more extreme, as in the end most people just equiped them all with Colossos X armor. I don't mind individual outfits for the companions, I rather like them, since it gives them their own visual identity (something I felt was rather lacking in both ME and DA:O, since your companions looked like generic human enemies from all but some of the top level gear).

It's not that I don't like equiping my companions with new gear, because I do, but if I don't get to equip companion X with "Generic Leather Armor - Red tone" or "Generic Leather Armor - Green tone" that's fine by me. What I want to be able to modify though, is the the equipments stats. That seems to be the case in DA2, but it's hard to tell without playing the game, so I'm willing reserve judgement until I've gone hands-on with the DA2-system.

[RedShft]

 I loved squad armor in ME2 and I was glad that they brought it into DA2. It is a solid design and gameplay decision that enhances both games immensly. 

[wulfsturm]

Huh, I must have been in that small demographic that didn't care either way about the armor.

[ScorpSt]

I like that characters are going to be able to keep their own unique "look", and unlike ME2, the armor is going to upgrade over time. Also, unlike ME2, they won't be exposed to the vacuum of space.

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

This is just one of the several features in DA 2 that was leaked out slowly over the past year. If it was let out all at once, it would kill off alot of fans. Bioware is smart to leak it out slowly so alot of people end up getting used to the idea then settle with numb acceptance, just hoping for a new release.

[Radwar]

RedShft wrote...

 I loved squad armor in ME2 and I was glad that they brought it into DA2. It is a solid design and gameplay decision that enhances both games immensly. 

I wouldn'nt have mind it so much if everyone in your squad actually had armor. It just irked me alot seeing one of my squadmates on a battlefield in high heels and a spandex suit, not to mention another one who was half naked. It just didn't make any sense to have half your squad look like they were suicidal, especially when you consider that your enemies all had armor. I really liked that Bioware rectified this with Miranda in the Appearance pack 2 by giving her armor, and I hope that it's a sign of what's coming in ME3.

Modifié par Radwar, 03 mars 2011 - 05:29 .

[Crimson Invictus]

It's time for this thread again? So soon as well.

[AlanC9]

RageGT, can you clear something up for me?

RageGT wrote...

Or people like me; old enough to have played BG and not at all interested in preserving those aspects of its gameplay.

people like you = grumpy! There are some of us old guys who still are young at heart! =) (j/k, at least about the grumpy part). 

Is it folks who are "young at heart" who like traditional RPG inventory? I always thought it's the kids who don't have the patience for the "deep" systems that older gamers love. Or do we have an alliance of 40- and 20-year-olds against the 30-year-olds? I kind of got that impression from the ME boards, actually.

[Morning808]

I don't see a reason to complaine about something so stupid so I never did

[mickey6688]

I'm dubious about the way the Dragon Age franchise is going, and this was one of the reasons. In fact, other than the lack of inventory, this inability to change party members' clothing and such was one of the things that irked me about Mass Effect 2. I heard in a developer interview that they were considering adding some of the old RPG elements back to ME3, so let's hope that DA3 eventually follows this same suit and heads back to its RPG roots.