Sir Caradoc wrote...
I think we should put the realism debate aside as it leads nowhere. But I do agree with the orginal poster. Lack of ff disturbs me a great deal too.
I think friendly fire is vital for strategic gameplay. The point of mage''s spell variety is that there is always a spell for different type of situations. A fireball is a great spell to start a fight, but a bad spell to use while your team is crowed.
So if there isn't friendly fire penalty, it just boils down using the most power full area effect damage spell all the time.
So please bioware, atleast make nightmare a real deal. Please let us old timers have our challenge.
Sir Caradoc wrote...
I wish normal, hard and nightmare all had FF enabled, the optimal solution would be like that, but you know how people are these days. They want instant glorification and dislike challenge. Push a button and something awesome happens or how it went?
Our only hope is that there is atleast one mode that requires some strategy. I quess it will be like this:
Casual = God mode / interactive film mode ot whatever you like to call it,
Normal = DAO casual
Hard = DAO normal
nightmare = DAO hard
We each have different tastes. I undertand that many like to open a can of beer and just follow the storyline. But for me the gameplay is the nr1 factor. I hope bioware remembers us too.
Peter Thomas wrote...
Friendly fire is only on Nightmare. There were discussions on it months ago (including toggles, having it not be toggle-able in certain modes, and even locked difficulty levels) and that was the decision that was reached.
For reference, here are our current goals for difficulty balance:
Casual - Able to be beaten playing a single character sub-optimally, with the rest of the party using default AI tactics.
Normal - Able to be beaten playing a single character optimally, with the rest of the party using default AI tactics.
Hard - Able to be beaten playing the entire party sub-optimally, either controlling directly or using custom AI tactics.
Nightmare - Able to be beaten playing the entire party optimally, either controlling directly or using custom AI tactics. Friendly fire active.
Modifié par Gisle Aune, 02 mars 2011 - 02:11 .
Sir Caradoc wrote...
I wish normal, hard and nightmare all had FF enabled, the optimal solution would be like that, but you know how people are these days. They want instant glorification and dislike challenge. Push a button and something awesome happens or how it went?
I have yet to see a difficulty scaling that did not turn the game into a grindfest the higher it got. I saw some nice tactis changes for nightmare, but the majority challenge once again comes from the enemy having insane health and an adavantage to armor. Thus you just take longer to kill the enemy (with the added advantage of being more likely to die because they live longer).GunClubGirl wrote...
I agree with Wynne who posted if you want it on own it and play on nightmare, but I refuse to boycott the game. I would not mind if they made friendly fire optional so that you could turn it on or off, but they didn't, so your alternative is to play on nightmare. Personally, I like it off because why would my group attack their own party members? In my view, that would make no sense. I just play the game and aim my attacks to avoid my party members. And if someone else playing single player wants to not aim, and go ahead and hit their party members because friendly fire is off, THAT'S FINE, they paid for the game and they can have fun with it however they want. It isn't competitive multiplayer. So while I'd be fine with a friendly-fire-on OPTION on additional difficulties, I am glad I have the option to play with it off. Those of you "too hardcore" for it on can play on nightmare as an alternative.
That's the point to many, though. You can only get it if you choose the grinding difficulty.Gisle Aune wrote...
It's there on nightmare - check the facts before going ape**** because of it.
This is another reasson for why we should have a toolset.
Klidi wrote...
well we can agree that for some people ff is vital for strategic gameplay and for some people it is not. right?
even
with Spell Shaping, it was never just using of the most powerful AoE
spell, because double mana cost + cool down + casting time simply didn't
make it possible. what I'm trying to say, there are also other ways to increase difficulty than something as stupid and illogical as "friendly fire".
Rawgrim wrote...
Makes you wonder about that "fight like a spartan and thing like a general" quote, they have been tossing around. No friendly fire, and no proper view of the battlefield. Yeah right. Makes me feel like a general...not.
PsychoBlonde wrote...
Sir Caradoc wrote...
I wish normal, hard and nightmare all had FF enabled, the optimal solution would be like that, but you know how people are these days. They want instant glorification and dislike challenge. Push a button and something awesome happens or how it went?
Some of us play games for FUN. We have LIVES for challenge. Or MMO's. One or the other.
Rawgrim wrote...
Sticky Controller wrote...
Jungle_Rhino wrote...
Sticky Controller wrote...
Friendly fire wasn't taken out (of lower difficulties) for lack of player understanding. If you have such a Dev comment...Well, you don't.
This is second hand and reposted from another forum but I have no reason to believe it has been fabricated:
DGaider on Bioboards wrote: Quote: Why can't it simply be a toggle?
Because it has a profound effect on the difficulty. Hence it being attached to the difficulty.
Or that, anyhow, is what I assume. Attaching things to toggles is great, but if someone flips that on and doesn't know that it will suddenly make their "Easy" game not quite so Easy anymore... well, that wouldn't be good.
Sorry but that just reads as 'people are stupid' to me.
Honestly I wouldn't be posting here if I wasn't passionate about CRPGs in general it just makes me sad to see this type of design decision made.
I have to admit...You have a point by it being read that way.
And I can understand you wanting friendly fire. I know tons of people that play with it on all the time, but you shouldn't let it get in the way of you enjoying the game. Don't boycott a game you've looked forward to because of such a small aspect.
Basically what was implemented in normal difficulty (friendly fire) in older rpgs, are now considered to be so difficult for new players that its added to nightmare mode (only). I got to agree with the fellow. Devs think we are dumb.
Herr Uhl wrote...
Buffy-Summers wrote...
Do you know how pointless primal and elemental mages are with Friendly Fire active
They're about as useful. As long as we have the targeting reticule, as opposed to BG2 where I fireballed my companions.
iampool wrote...
PsychoBlonde wrote...
Sir Caradoc wrote...
I wish normal, hard and nightmare all had FF enabled, the optimal solution would be like that, but you know how people are these days. They want instant glorification and dislike challenge. Push a button and something awesome happens or how it went?
Some of us play games for FUN. We have LIVES for challenge. Or MMO's. One or the other.
Some of us find challenges to be fun
Elsariel wrote...
iampool wrote...
PsychoBlonde wrote...
Sir Caradoc wrote...
I wish normal, hard and nightmare all had FF enabled, the optimal solution would be like that, but you know how people are these days. They want instant glorification and dislike challenge. Push a button and something awesome happens or how it went?
Some of us play games for FUN. We have LIVES for challenge. Or MMO's. One or the other.
Some of us find challenges to be fun
That's all well and good. Everyone should enjoy the game how they like it. It just..... some of us hate being looked down upon because we don't subscribe to playing the game as people think it aught to be played. Some people play for the story/relationships and not so much for the combat/tactics. Or, some people just like to feel god-like in their games. So.. things like friendly fire can be more of an annoyance than anything.
The implication that I'm somehow lesser because I prefer things a little easier is kinda.... well, grating.
moilami wrote...
Rawgrim wrote...
Sticky Controller wrote...
Jungle_Rhino wrote...
Sticky Controller wrote...
Friendly fire wasn't taken out (of lower difficulties) for lack of player understanding. If you have such a Dev comment...Well, you don't.
This is second hand and reposted from another forum but I have no reason to believe it has been fabricated:
DGaider on Bioboards wrote: Quote: Why can't it simply be a toggle?
Because it has a profound effect on the difficulty. Hence it being attached to the difficulty.
Or that, anyhow, is what I assume. Attaching things to toggles is great, but if someone flips that on and doesn't know that it will suddenly make their "Easy" game not quite so Easy anymore... well, that wouldn't be good.
Sorry but that just reads as 'people are stupid' to me.
Honestly I wouldn't be posting here if I wasn't passionate about CRPGs in general it just makes me sad to see this type of design decision made.
I have to admit...You have a point by it being read that way.
And I can understand you wanting friendly fire. I know tons of people that play with it on all the time, but you shouldn't let it get in the way of you enjoying the game. Don't boycott a game you've looked forward to because of such a small aspect.
Basically what was implemented in normal difficulty (friendly fire) in older rpgs, are now considered to be so difficult for new players that its added to nightmare mode (only). I got to agree with the fellow. Devs think we are dumb.
Are you saying they are not right?
Jungle_Rhino wrote...
Dear Bioware,
I quite enjoyed Origins, and have been looking forward to Dragon Age 2 although not following development too closely as I have other things to do. Anyhow I am deeply disturbed that you have deemed your target audience to be too stupid to comprehend the implications of a Freindly Fire toggle. I can see from the demo the enormous amount of work which has gone into the combat to make it intense and visceral, however being able to drop a fireball onto my tank surrounded by enemies just totally kills any type of immersion for me. While I understand that FF will be ON in Nightmare mode - I don't have any real desire to micro my entire party, and farm massive amounts of gold to pay for the amount of cunsumables I will require to plow through the HP inflated hordes of enemies - this is a game after all, meant for enjoyment after a long day at work.
Please I implore you devs, consider implementing a Freindly Fire toggle in your first patch. People who are too stupid to utilise such a toggle probably won't figure out how to patch the game anyhow so I think this would be a win/win situation.
Also I would like to request the rest of the community to join me in boycotting purchasing the game until such point that a Freindly Fire toggle is implemented. I really do feel quite depressed that the devs view me, and the rest of the world as too stupid to make this decision ourselves.
Regards,
Concerned Fan
moilami wrote...
Elsariel wrote...
iampool wrote...
PsychoBlonde wrote...
Sir Caradoc wrote...
I wish normal, hard and nightmare all had FF enabled, the optimal solution would be like that, but you know how people are these days. They want instant glorification and dislike challenge. Push a button and something awesome happens or how it went?
Some of us play games for FUN. We have LIVES for challenge. Or MMO's. One or the other.
Some of us find challenges to be fun
That's all well and good. Everyone should enjoy the game how they like it. It just..... some of us hate being looked down upon because we don't subscribe to playing the game as people think it aught to be played. Some people play for the story/relationships and not so much for the combat/tactics. Or, some people just like to feel god-like in their games. So.. things like friendly fire can be more of an annoyance than anything.
The implication that I'm somehow lesser because I prefer things a little easier is kinda.... well, grating.
I haven't said you are any lesser. You just like different things than I do. I have no doubts regarding you being able to win the game in "nightmare".
Indeed. I do think they should've started friendly fire at hard difficulty. A newbie isn't going to be playing on hard. This can be fixed by a patch, but we don't know if they'll do that at this point.Poison_Berrie wrote...
I have yet to see a difficulty scaling that did not turn the game into a grindfest the higher it got. I saw some nice tactis changes for nightmare, but the majority challenge once again comes from the enemy having insane health and an adavantage to armor. Thus you just take longer to kill the enemy (with the added advantage of being more likely to die because they live longer).
Friendly fire offers a wholly different type of difficulty. It challenges the way you play, making you think about your allies.
It'd be nice to see difficulty be approached in how the enemies goes about attacking your group or how the work with each other.
Elsariel wrote...
iampool wrote...
PsychoBlonde wrote...
Sir Caradoc wrote...
I wish normal, hard and nightmare all had FF enabled, the optimal solution would be like that, but you know how people are these days. They want instant glorification and dislike challenge. Push a button and something awesome happens or how it went?
Some of us play games for FUN. We have LIVES for challenge. Or MMO's. One or the other.
Some of us find challenges to be fun
That's all well and good. Everyone should enjoy the game how they like it. It just..... some of us hate being looked down upon because we don't subscribe to playing the game as people think it aught to be played. Some people play for the story/relationships and not so much for the combat/tactics. Or, some people just like to feel god-like in their games. So.. things like friendly fire can be more of an annoyance than anything.
The implication that I'm somehow lesser because I prefer things a little easier is kinda.... well, grating.
JensenBakura wrote...
Friendly Fire Off allows people to use spells a lot more liberally that have almost no use if they can damage your melee fighters. It's no more "unrealistic" to have spells that can tell friend from foe than to cast inferno in the mage tower library and not set a single bookshelf on fire. And yet those who whine about friendly fire never care about that, lol.
It's a game. Friendly-fire is a game mechanic, not an attempt at simulating realism. Bioware decided that it was something they only wanted people to have the annoyance (yes - for some people it's annoying) when they wanted a real challenge.
In an ideal world, yes I'd have a toggle for it, but as someone who doesn't like having it, I'm glad I can ramp up the difficulty without worrying about it, unlike in Origins, when I was forced to have it.
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