803 réponses à ce sujet

[jeweledleah]

again, that's just your opinion man. from my perspective, TIM might have some brains, but he's either too inept to control his own projects, or thinks I'm too dumb and will just take him on his word that all the ****ty things he's done are "for greater good". he lies, he withholds information, he manipulates the events, is he really the only one who's doing anything, or does he just want you to believe that so that you stay in line?

you believe that keeping collector base is the only way to have a chance at winning. however, it is not a fact. TIM misusing it - is a fact. you are saying that our chances of winning against the reapers are slim to none with or without the base, yes? so can you see a Shepard, whose moral fiber, unlike yours is to bring equality and prosperity to all races, not just humanity - can you see this Shepard, who takes their job as a council spectre seriously - give such ammunition to an enemy and justify it?

[AdmiralCheez]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

That's true, and I don't need your parabola for that. It all depends on the premises. And it is assumed that we all (as Shepards, the Saviours of the Galaxy) have the same premises:

1. If we can't find a way to stop the Reapers, we're all dead.
2. We don't want to be all dead.

Well, duh.

3. The Reapers have a lot of power. Their weaknesses, if any, are unknown to us.
4. To stop them, we must have more power than they, and/or learn their weaknesses.

Sovereign bluescreened when we killed its avatar, Saren.  Harbinger always released control of its avatars before they died.  It seems their avatars are a major weakness.  Also, the turians managed to reverse-engineer their weapons, and EDI's collected a ton of data already.  Finally, the protheans were learning to build their own mass relays, and Ilos and the Conduit are still standing, for the most part.

Oh, I forgot, 9/11 was an inside job Vigil was lying.  Seriously, man, you are either insane or one devoted troll.

5. The base may contain some power-ups and/or information on the Reapers' weaknesses.

Same with the Citadel, which conveniently isn't in danger of falling under Cerberus control.  It's right there, waiting for us to study it, and is a lot safer than the Collector Base.  Convincing the council to let us tinker with it may be an issue, but hey, if ME3's teaser trailer is anything like its opening titles, I believe a complete 180 will be in order.

Because I'll be damned if the homeworld of a council species doesn't fall within their jurisdiction.

That's about it. If you don't share any of these, or want to add something, feel free.

6. Cerberus has a track record of using superior technology irresponsibly and/or screwing themselves over while researching it.
7. The Base cannot help you if TIM and friends screw it up.

But remember, post-Reaper anything shouldn't factor in this, or you're not really a Savior of the Galaxy.

Post-Reaper?  Naw, bro--I'm worried about conflict between the races brewing while we are trying to stop the Mecha-Cthulus.  A house divided against itself cannot stand and all that.  I'm not going to make enemies of the rest of the galaxy just because I handed over something that might be useful to the wrong people.

@jeweledleah: I love you, too.

[emmanuelsieyes]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Human/Salarian/Volus council.

Okay, so now the humans have to do all of the combat.

That also doesn't discount the fact that the Turians and Asari are not going to let humans take over. The Turians have like a 5:1 dreadnaught advantage, and the Asari have the best biotics in the ME universe.

I have a perfect plan of campaign that will render the Turian fleet completely ineffective, but it:

a) is classified;

does not belong in a "C-Base choice" thread.

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

I have Miranda, who knows the exact location of TIM's base.

She doesn't. It is revealed in Retribution that TIM's base can be relocated between star systems.

However, I still have the other end of all of those communication links linking back to TIM. EDI had to send all of that surveillance data somewhere. I have the Shadow Broker, who's penetrated Cerberus. I have the Council, who would be overjoyed to take down TIM (I can't imagine the asari would be too happy about all that anti-biotic research they did).

I have no interest in reading the comics/books. However, TIM doesn't have the technology to build a mass relay. That base has to get around somehow. I can cut his achilles' tendons by taking out the cells that the shadow broker knows about. Most of the Cerberus resources were put into Lazarus/SR2, so he can't go on the offensive. Clearly, EDI, with the Reaper IFF, can interface with the mass relays at a higher level. I'm sure that EDI will be able to track down TIM as he moves around star systems.

My biggest problem with the Renegade end of ME2 is that I don't get a chance to give TIM the collector base -- on my terms. I'll let him use it, however, if he screws me on this, I want to understand that I will find him, and that I will kill him.

You know what? I think that AdmiralCheez has the right idea here. The collector base is something of a red herring compared to the Citadel, which has control over the mass relay network. The Citadel relay is the plan A for the reapers to return home, clearly, this is going to be the best source of intel about them. Hell, we could get the location of the other side of the citadel relay.

Modifié par emmanuelsieyes, 06 mars 2011 - 10:56 .

[Doctor Solus]

I think Carberus, the Alliance, the Council, the Krogan, the Rachni and even the jellyfish should all be good friends, save the Collector base, and make lots of bad-ass, super high-tech weapons to kill those mean robot-lobsters.

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

That's true, and I don't need your parabola for that. It all depends on the premises. And it is assumed that we all (as Shepards, the Saviours of the Galaxy) have the same premises:

1. If we can't find a way to stop the Reapers, we're all dead.
2. We don't want to be all dead.[/quote]
Well, duh.

[quote]3. The Reapers have a lot of power. Their weaknesses, if any, are unknown to us.
4. To stop them, we must have more power than they, and/or learn their weaknesses.[/quote]
Sovereign bluescreened when we killed its avatar, Saren.[/quote]Not confirmed.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

Harbinger always released control of its avatars before they died.[/quote]
Really? Widow+Casual?


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

It seems their avatars are a major weakness.  Also, the turians managed to reverse-engineer their weapons, and EDI's collected a ton of data already.  Finally, the protheans were learning to build their own mass relays, and Ilos and the Conduit are still standing, for the most part.

Oh, I forgot, 9/11 was an inside job Vigil was lying.  Seriously, man, you are either insane or one devoted troll.
[/quote]None of which is confirmed to be working on the Reapers... Especially since you've got no slightest idea of
HOW MANY OF THEM THERE ARE


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
[quote]5. The base may contain some power-ups and/or information on the Reapers' weaknesses.[/quote]Same with the Citadel, which conveniently isn't in danger of falling under Cerberus control.  It's right there, waiting for us to study it, and is a lot safer than the Collector Base.  Convincing the council to let us tinker with it may be an issue, but hey, if ME3's teaser trailer is anything like its opening titles, I believe a complete 180 will be in order.[/quote]
Lol, exactly due to my "Vigil was lying" theory, I am of this opinion too. But in-universe, it's implausible as of yet. Even if it wasn't, deliberately forfeiting any additional resource is still foolish.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
[quote]That's about it. If you don't share any of these, or want to add something, feel free.[/quote]
6. Cerberus has a track record of using superior technology irresponsibly and/or screwing themselves over while researching it.
7. The Base cannot help you if TIM and friends screw it up.[/quote]Covered by #5, actually. It "may". Or "may not".

You (or anybody) can always go back and blow it, if it's useless, but still there. But you can't un-blow it, if you need it, but it's not there.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
[quote]But remember, post-Reaper anything shouldn't factor in this, or you're not really a Savior of the Galaxy.[/quote]Post-Reaper?  Naw, bro--I'm worried about conflict between the races brewing while we are trying to stop the Mecha-Cthulus.  A house divided against itself cannot stand and all that.  I'm not going to make enemies of the rest of the galaxy just because I handed over something that might be useful to the wrong people.
[/quote]
You can always tell  them you've blown it up.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 06 mars 2011 - 11:18 .

[Zulu_DFA]

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

I have the Shadow Broker, who's penetrated Cerberus.

Seriously? I though it was Cerberus that penetrated the Shadow Broker.

[Pwener2313]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

I have the Shadow Broker, who's penetrated Cerberus.

Seriously? I though it was Cerberus that penetrated the Shadow Broker.

It goes "both ways" lol

[Pwener2313]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

Post-Reaper?  Naw, bro--I'm worried about conflict between the races brewing while we are trying to stop the Mecha-Cthulus.  A house divided against itself cannot stand and all that.  I'm not going to make enemies of the rest of the galaxy just because I handed over something that might be useful to the wrong people.
[/quote]
You can always tell  them you've blown it up.
[/quote]

"Ah yes, Collector Base"

Modifié par Pwener2313, 06 mars 2011 - 11:14 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Not confirmed.

Neither are any of your theories.

Really? Widow+Casual?

Ending cutscene takes precedent over playing the game like a sissy.

None of which is confirmed to be working on the Reapers... Especially since you've got no slightest idea of
HOW MANY OF THEM THERE ARE

I think it's safe to assume the STG has their amphibious little fingers going into all sorts of Reaper-liscous places.  In fact, Mordin wrote a paper on indoctrination (see Shadow Broker dossier).  And, according to the latest comic book fiasco, the turians have intel on husks.  Oh yeah, and they built the Thanix cannon.

Numbers?  Enough to wipe out entire civilizations over and over.  Relax, baby, we've got this.

Lol, exactly due to my "Vigil was lying" theory, I am of this opinion too. But in-universe, it's implausible as of yet. Even if it wasn't, deliberately forfeiting any additional resource is still foolish.

Not as foolish as handing said resources over to a conniving megalomaniac with a messiah complex.  Remember my analogy about the nuke and the terrorists?  But I'm glad you are an advocate of studying the Citadel; it's something that the asari should have done the moment they set foot on it.

My point is, we have all the resources we need already--we just have to pool them all together and put 'em to good use.  We can achieve victory without throwing inevitable Cerberus shenanigans into the mix.  The real question here should be whether it's safer to bet on interspecies cooperation or on the ability of TIMmy boy to keep himself in line.  I don't trust TIM not to go on a power trip, but I think a Reaper invasion will convince everyone to get their sh*t together.

]Covered by #5, actually. It "may". Or "may not".

But you never factored in the potential of the CB to backfire.

But you (or anybody) could always can go back and blow it, if it's useless, but still there. You can't un-blow it, if you need it, but it's not there.

And I can't un-hand it to TIM.  By the time anyone realizes keeping it was a bad idea, the damage will have been done.

You can always tell  them you've blown it up.

Yes, because everything will turn out better when they find out you've been lying to them and decide to nuke your ass like the treacherous bastard you are.  How about we keep honest with the people who have the best intelligence-gathering organization in the galaxy and five times more dreadnoughts, hm?

[Pwener2313]

@AdmiralCheez: "Relax"? "We've got his"? Man, I wish I had your confidence. Everyone sees my talking the big talk, but honestly, I am mortified about all of this giant Reaper mess we have on us.
 
Have you seen this?





I can't see this without my morale hitting rock bottom.

[Pwener2313]

People are ignoring the datapad EDI got out of the Collector Base regardless of the choice made. What was that all about? I see it being the schematics to making a Reaper... including possible flaws in it's construction.

[Zulu_DFA]

[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

Not confirmed.[/quote]Neither are any of your theories.[/quote]Never used them to justify an in-game choice.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
[quote]Really? Widow+Casual?[/quote]Ending cutscene takes precedent over playing the game like a sissy.
[/quote]
That doesn't save the cutscenes from sucking.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...[quote]None of which is confirmed to be working on the Reapers... Especially since you've got no slightest idea of
HOW MANY OF THEM THERE ARE[/quote]
I think it's safe to assume the STG has their amphibious little fingers going into all sorts of Reaper-liscous places.  In fact, Mordin wrote a paper on indoctrination (see Shadow Broker dossier).[/quote]Maleon also mentions it... I bet it's based on the reports from Virmire.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote... 

And, according to the latest comic book fiasco, the turians have intel on husks.
[/quote] Something tells me the last Turian that had had the "intel" on husks from the comic died by Shepard's hand.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

Oh yeah, and they built the Thanix cannon.[/quote]
How about an Ion Cannon? Although I doubt even it could punch through the Reapers' shields fast enough.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

Numbers?  Enough to wipe out entire civilizations over and over.  Relax, baby, we've got this.[/quote]
That would be really reassuring... although it's not.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
[quote]Lol, exactly due to my "Vigil was lying" theory, I am of this opinion too. But in-universe, it's implausible as of yet. Even if it wasn't, deliberately forfeiting any additional resource is still foolish.[/quote]
Not as foolish as handing said resources over to a conniving megalomaniac with a messiah complex.  Remember my analogy about the nuke and the terrorists?  But I'm glad you are an advocate of studying the Citadel; it's something that the asari should have done the moment they set foot on it.[/quote]They didn't. That's why they must step aside now, and Cerberus must take charge.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

My point is, we have all the resources we need already[/quote]FACEPALM.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...

-we just have to pool them all together and put 'em to good use.  We can achieve victory without throwing inevitable Cerberus shenanigans into the mix.  The real question here should be whether it's safer to bet on interspecies cooperation or on the ability of TIMmy boy to keep himself in line.  I don't trust TIM not to go on a power trip, but I think a Reaper invasion will convince everyone to get their sh*t together.
[/quote]
In-game: you don't know that.

Meta-game: you know that the real-deal super-duper-kaboom device will present itself no earlier than ME3. Because it's a stand alone game.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
[quote]]Covered by #5, actually. It "may". Or "may not".[/quote]But you never factored in the potential of the CB to backfire.[/quote]
[/quote]You never factored in the potential of the Thannix Cannon to backfire.


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
[quote]But you (or anybody) could always can go back and blow it, if it's useless, but still there. You can't un-blow it, if you need it, but it's not there.[/quote]And I can't un-hand it to TIM.  By the time anyone realizes keeping it was a bad idea, the damage will have been done.[/quote]Yes you can. You just have to go back and blow it up. As for the damage, the first to take it will be Cerberus itself, and, hey! isn't it what you want? Maybe they'll finally screw up so badly as to not walk away from it?


[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
[quote]You can always tell  them you've blown it up.[/quote]Yes, because everything will turn out better when they find out you've been lying to them and decide to nuke your ass like the treacherous bastard you are.  How about we keep honest with the people who have the best intelligence-gathering organization in the galaxy and five times more dreadnoughts, hm?
[/quote]
When they find it out, they'll pretend that they haven't found it out, and when Cerberus finds out that they have found out, they'll also pretend that they haven't find anything out. But actually everybody will eventually find everything out. You get the idea. But here is another: airquotes.

Also, if you didn't make the right choice that would have already pawned that 5:1 ratio, keeping the Base is all the more important.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 07 mars 2011 - 12:28 .

[ubermensch007]

A couple of people over the course of this thread have stated that they think the Collector Base is a red herring: I find this hard to believe... This argument kind of reminds of a scene from the 2nd Season of 24.Three criminals were in Kate Warner's house.One of them opened a safe, pulled out some jewelry and had the nerve to ask his cohorts, "Do you think its real?" Without missing a beat, one of them said to him (sarcastically) "No, i'm sure they put all the fake jewelry in a safe." LOL

Why on earth would the Reapers go through all that trouble of building a space station in an enviroment as dangerous and volatile as the galactic core, if there was nothing of considerable value that they were placing there?! Are we really to believe that for the Reapers, building a space station in such a location was nothing more than an excercise in 'alternative real estate'? This was nothing more than a,"Why did you climb that mountain? Because its there." Moment, on their part... Yeah right!

When it comes to building projects: What's most difficult, is not what your building, but where you build... Its like why the Zionist in The Matrix Trilogy, technology is so far beyond our own.Why is this, b/c they (or the machines, if you believe them, as they say, "history is written by the winners" so i'm not so sure i believe them) built a 'Subterrainian Metropolis'. We on the other hand are surface dwellers, easy pickings for orbital bombardment.

I do agree, that the Citadel itself may still hold many secrets.But it pales in comparison to the Collector Base.You know why? Because the C.B. was a SECRET.The Citadel on the other hand, was just waiting to be found..If the Collector Base is of no value and should be destroyed.Than why was it such a difficult location to reach? Finding the Protheians on Illos was less trouble than that.And what Vigil had to say was of great importance...What does the C.B. have to say for itself, i wonder...

[emmanuelsieyes]

Obviously the collector base is important.

The collector base is the construction ground for new reapers. The reapers needed lots of raw materials to build a new reaper. They needed to keep it hidden so the organics wouldn't figure it out.

However, we've already eliminated the human-reaper. The collector base is no longer an active threat.

Now that the collectors are dealt with, the real question is whether the collector base is worth saving. It's obviously important to the Reapers, since that's how they reproduce. However, if we're looking for intel on how to fight the Reapers, then the collector base isn't necessarily the end all, be all that it's been claimed as. Ultimately, the collector base is just a production facility for new Reapers. The problem is that the Reaper they were building is not the same as the Reapers we're going to be fighting. The CB has vast amounts of data on how the Human-Reaper works. It has vast amounts of data on how Harbinger controls the CG (which is now irrelevant).

Compare this to the Citadel, which has the coordinates to their other relay in dark space. The Citadel needs to tie into the Reaper command network, so they could send the signal to activate the Keepers.

Having the collector base isn't the end all anti-Reaper weapon that it has been made out to be. The main concerns are going to be finding a way to exploit the Reaper command network, figuring out how to bypass their shields, and figuring out how to avoid their weapons. The link to Harbinger died with the Collector General (the Reapers would have no reason to keep that link connected after the CG was killed). There is no logical reason why the Reapers would store data on their weapons and armor at the Collector Base. The CB is producing the Human-Reaper, which has been destroyed.

Sovereign used a different weapon than the collector cruiser (which looks like the same weapon the Human-Reaper wields).

[AdmiralCheez]

WHY HELLO THERE DOUBLE-POST

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 07 mars 2011 - 02:02 .

[AdmiralCheez]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

Never used them to justify an in-game choice.[/quote]
Absence of real data is a b*tch like that.

[quote]That doesn't save the cutscenes from sucking.[/quote]
What does this even have to do with anything?

[quote]Maleon also mentions it... I bet it's based on the reports from Virmire.[/quote]
Either way, we know the salarians have intel we can use.

[quote]Something tells me the last Turian that had had the "intel" on husks from the comic died by Shepard's hand.[/quote]
I'm willing to bet they've got data buried away somewhere. Not that it's important--I was using it to prove my point that the other council races actually were looking into it.

[quote]How about an Ion Cannon? Although I doubt even it could punch through the Reapers' shields fast enough.[/quote]
Eh, I took that f*cker out with a few rounds of Yamato. But I suppose that, if the worst does come to pass, we can activate the Rings and call it a day. The Reapers are kind of screwed if there's nothing left to reap, but, as it was with the Flood, starving them doesn't necessarily mean killing them. Or maybe we could build a Death Star, you know, for the lulz.

Or maybe we could stick to one damn universe?

[quote]That would be really reassuring... although it's not.[/quote]
Problem?

[quote]They didn't. That's why they must step aside now, and Cerberus must take charge.[/quote]
Because obviously killing babies in biotic cagefights will solve all our problems.

[quote]FACEPALM.[/quote]
Well, we do. Or did the STG and the Citadel stop existing?

[quote]In-game: you don't know that.[/quote]
Commander Shepard will pull it off somehow, and she knows it. And there are plenty of hints sprinkled around that show this is possible.

[quote]Meta-game: you know that the real-deal super-duper-kaboom device will present itself no earlier than ME3. Because it's a stand alone game.[/quote]
Precisely why I don't feel guilty giving TIM the finger. U mad?

[quote]You never factored in the potential of the Thannix Cannon to backfire.[/quote]
Of course not. After Garrus calibrated the sh*t out of it, it could shoot a leg off of a flea from ten parsecs away. Besides, it was a gun that had already been built and tested, unlike the Base, which could be f*cking anything, really.

[quote]Yes you can. You just have to go back and blow it up. As for the damage, the first to take it will be Cerberus itself, and, hey! isn't it what you want? Maybe they'll finally screw up so badly as to not walk away from it?[/quote]
I can't un-make TIM's new Reap-o-matic 3000, and I can't un-kill all the people he would have nuked with it. And frankly, I'd rather not give Cerberus the chance to screw up. Think of all the Gabbys and Kens and Davids that they'd put at risk. It's best to disband them or convince them to stop the whole "kill babies so we can rule the galaxy" thing they've got going.

[quote]When they find it out, they'll pretend that they haven't found it out, and when Cerberus finds out that they have found out, they'll also pretend that they haven't find anything out. But actually everybody will eventually find everything out. You get the idea.[/quote]
When they find out that humans are legitimately planning to secure dominance above all other species, expect war. When they find out that their star agent is an active contributor to this scheme, expect an execution.

[quote]But here is another: airquotes.[/quote]
Isn't Valern precious? I just want to pinch his bony little cheeks.

[quote]Also, if you didn't make the right choice that would have already pawned that 5:1 ratio, keeping the Base is all the more important.[/quote]
I keep forgetting you actually want human dominance. Frankly, I'd rather have the turians on our side. They won't get all hostile when we start building up our own fleets if we're buddy-buddy with them. Besides, why build a whole new fleet when there's already the biggest and baddest in the galaxy ready to kick some Reaper ass? Even if they're vastly underpowered compared to the evil space death squids, their notorious honor code means they'll have no trouble turning themselves into cannon fodder, so if they can't make a nice dent in the Reaper armada for us, at least they'll slow them down.

Or, you know, they could just laugh as humanity gets tromped and save their firepower for defending their own territory. Which they're bound to do if they consider humans a thorn in the side of the galaxy at large. But if humanity is an important ally and member of the council... Well, that changes things, doesn't it?

@Pwener: I laugh in the face of impossible odds. Because I'm Commander F*cking Shepard.

[Almostfaceman]

I'm with Cheez on this one.  What seems to be ignored is who the intel is being handed off to.  Cerberus (TiM) simply can't be trusted with that much information about the Reapers.  Short-term they may somehow be focused enough to beat back the Reapers with what is learned, but long term Cerberus dominance spells warfare with the other races and millions more humans and other species dying.  Looking at human history, it also could very well spell a dictatorship.

Favorite comic book saying - with great power comes great responsibility. 

And that is IF Cerberus is successful manipulating Reaper tech.  A big IF considering the myriad of failures they achieve as they try to research anything.  Hey, instead of just a human-geth AI taking over all computers in the galaxy why not make it a Reaper AI this time?  It definitely wont be screaming to "make the noise stop" in an irritating manner as it uses our machines to gut us.

My Shepard stays in character as much as the game will allow - use Cerberus just enough to save a bunch of humans and put a serious cramp in the Reapers Human Baby Project then drop them like a hot potato.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 07 mars 2011 - 01:54 .

[Zulu_DFA]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Meta-game:
you know that the real-deal super-duper-kaboom device will present
itself no earlier than ME3. Because it's a stand alone game.

Precisely why I don't feel guilty giving TIM the finger.  U mad?

Very. Grats. I'm raging.

[Arijharn]

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Save collector base: Galactic human empire. Destroy collector base: A unified galactic government united by Shepard, creating galactic peace.

All of this means absolutely nothing if you can't survive long enough to actually have your 'unified galactic government' because you didn't have the balls to study something that could be scary, but potentially very useful.

[Almostfaceman]

Arijharn wrote...

OrlesianWardenCommander wrote...

Save collector base: Galactic human empire. Destroy collector base: A unified galactic government united by Shepard, creating galactic peace.

All of this means absolutely nothing if you can't survive long enough to actually have your 'unified galactic government' because you didn't have the balls to study something that could be scary, but potentially very useful.

Or you don't have the BALLS to figure out how to defeat them yourself without laying secrets of the universe in scary people's hands.   

Don't try to turn this into an issue of courage, it's an issue of who you trust and don't trust.

[Arijharn]

jeweledleah wrote...

I'm sorry, I just have to adress one thing, since arguing with Zulu is like arguing with a mule. anything that doesn't mesh with his own opinions and goals must be stupid.

but that aside - Nobody with an ounce of moral fiber would oppose that either, that being humanity dominating other races? what moral fiber are we talking about? the moral fiber of sentient beings all deserving equal say, or the eugenics sort of moral fiber?

Lol, don't take the moral high horse when you're perfectly willing to kill everyone because an alternative offends your sensibilities. You're right; other people do deserve a say; which they wont if you arbitrarily decide that handing an asset to someone might automatically that the future could be worse.

But honestly, what's worse than having everyone die? Oh, of course, how silly am I? It's that one species may have superiority of another (and well; anyone who says that the Council don't perpetrate this themselves clearly haven't played the games...)

Are you even 'serious' about stopping the Reapers? If so, you have to treat the Reapers as a real threat, and only meta-gaming gives you a chance against the Reapers otherwise. 

You have given us hazy maybe's, but none of those 'maybe's' are remotely as solid as pro keeping the base, and that's why it's illogical and why your position is untenable.

[jeweledleah]

@ Arijharn



your refusal to step off your narrow chosen pass and accept the possibility that your opinion might not be the absolute only viable one is...sad.

[AdmiralCheez]

@Arijiharn: Of course we're serious about defeating the Reapers. We just figured there's a better way than letting a madman tinker with dangerous technology. Or did you not notice his crazy speech when you blow the base/creepy smile when you keep it? The CB may have been an asset, but TIM's too much of a liability. He's like a monkey playing with dynamite.

I would have gladly kept the CB if TIM wasn't batsh*t insane. Or did it slip your mind that he intentionally lured the Collectors to Horizon without at least informing you first? That he sent you into a trap only a few missions later? He's completely irresponsible and has no regard for human lives. It's power he wants, not survival, and he'll gladly screw over Earth and everyone else if it means that he and his little club come out on top. The little bugger will happily sabotage the war effort for his own ends. Billions, possibly trillions will die to satisfy his ego.

Oh yeah, and he spent four billion credits to bring back one person from the dead because she was "a symbol." Honestly, TIM, what the hell were you even thinking? You're lucky Shepard happens to be the main character and therefore has plot immunity, otherwise the Lazarus Project would have been the dumbest move Cerberus has pulled yet.

We're not handing the galaxy over to the Reapers on a silver platter by destroying the base; we're making sure TIM doesn't do their job for them.

Besides, we still have Ilos, the Citadel, the STG, and the Shadow Broker's information network. Chances are, all the intel and tech we need is already out there. Like I said before, we simply have to pool our resources.

(I don't really hate TIM--he's a fascinating character and a pretty cool dude. However, after just running through Horizon again and listening to what our darling illusive friend has to say about the whole issue, I am definitely not going to empower him any further. "Oh yeah, I let it slip you came back from the dead to work for us so the Collectors would go after your friends, herp derp." Sheesh.)

[Moiaussi]

Pwener2313 wrote...

People are ignoring the datapad EDI got out of the Collector Base regardless of the choice made. What was that all about? I see it being the schematics to making a Reaper... including possible flaws in it's construction.

Yee-ha! Jes shoot em up the exhaust port!

[Almostfaceman]

Arijharn wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

I'm sorry, I just have to adress one thing, since arguing with Zulu is like arguing with a mule. anything that doesn't mesh with his own opinions and goals must be stupid.

but that aside - Nobody with an ounce of moral fiber would oppose that either, that being humanity dominating other races? what moral fiber are we talking about? the moral fiber of sentient beings all deserving equal say, or the eugenics sort of moral fiber?

Lol, don't take the moral high horse when you're perfectly willing to kill everyone because an alternative offends your sensibilities. You're right; other people do deserve a say; which they wont if you arbitrarily decide that handing an asset to someone might automatically that the future could be worse.

But honestly, what's worse than having everyone die? Oh, of course, how silly am I? It's that one species may have superiority of another (and well; anyone who says that the Council don't perpetrate this themselves clearly haven't played the games...)

Are you even 'serious' about stopping the Reapers? If so, you have to treat the Reapers as a real threat, and only meta-gaming gives you a chance against the Reapers otherwise. 

You have given us hazy maybe's, but none of those 'maybe's' are remotely as solid as pro keeping the base, and that's why it's illogical and why your position is untenable.

Once again, you ignore who the technology has to be handed off to.  TiM is as ruthless as Stalin or Hitler.  There is no way I would put the fate of humanity in those hands.  There are other ways of acquiring the technology (as pointed out in other posts) without giving TiM exclusive control and access.  The Citadel is a prime example - with the work you've done already studying the keepers you're on the cusp of presenting scientific evidence to the counsel that the Citadel requires some serious study.