803 réponses à ce sujet

[Undertone]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Smeelia wrote...

Well we could defeat the Reapers only to end up becoming Reapers ourselves with the technology, I'm not sure that'd mean we won.

Why would that matter? If that happens then it means it is a path we choose ourselves rather than having it forced upon us. It is probably inevitable in fact. Unless the Reapers are defeated in a way that completely obliterates them and leaves nothing to salvage I can guarantee you that every government and interest group in the galaxy will be rushing to scoop up all the scraps. Reaper technology will proliferate through galactic civilization no matter what.

Smeelia wrote...

To me it's fairly similar to the Rachni Queen decision, you can destroy the base and it definately wont be a threat or you can keep it and it could be of help or it could make things worse.

It is not the same at all. The rachni offer no critically useful benefits. Releasing the queen is the opposite of being practical. The queen is simply adding an extra variable.

The base however, as I explained, offers the chance to study our enemy. You clearly are afraid of indoctrination. I ask you, what are you plans in the future when the Reapers are indoctrinating people and turning them on you? You will not be be able to hide from Reaper tech once the Reapers arrive. If you want to find a way to defeat the danger of indoctrination then you need to study it under controlled circumstances. The Collector base offers this possibility.

Would you rather try to study indoctrination (and other Reaper tech) while the Reapers are invading or would you rather study it now when the galaxy is not at war?

You are not looking at this logically.

Your mission will not have been for naught if the Reapers re-capture it anyway. You, after all, still stopped the Collectors and still set-back their efforts. Frankly, that might even work in your favor. It presents another target that the Reapers must capture and not destroy, which gives you an extra opportunity to defeat them in a stand-up fight.

Smeelia wrote...

There's no guarantee either way and there's no way you could predict how it'll turn out.

No, but I can take logical steps to reduce the number of variables. If you destroy the base you are hinging your bet on some kind of dues ex machina to come and save you. You are relying on hope. That is not smart.

My thoughts exactly. But most people here are emotionally driven. Ooooo Cerberus is evil, TIM is evil, bla bla bla. Even if TIM wants to become Emperor of the Universe, you got to stop the Reapers first, that takes priority.

[Kingthlayer]

I kept the base in all my main plays. If keeping the base was paragon everyone would chose the option, since Renegades seem to think about their options and Paragons have blind faith in going top right/left.

[DarthVadoc]

I have about 9 imports ready for ME3. 8 out of 9 i destroyed the base. I'm gonna take the longer path to destroy the Reapers. Cerberus can kiss Shepards a** lol.

[nevar00]

Saphra Deden wrote...


The base however, as I explained, offers the chance to study our enemy. You clearly are afraid of indoctrination. I ask you, what are you plans in the future when the Reapers are indoctrinating people and turning them on you? You will not be be able to hide from Reaper tech once the Reapers arrive. If you want to find a way to defeat the danger of indoctrination then you need to study it under controlled circumstances. The Collector base offers this possibility.

I'm guessing you haven't read the books... or payed much attention to the game.    The way things work with Cerberus usually goes like this:

1.  TIM tries experimenting with something
2.  something goes horribly wrong
3. TIM tries to go "THERE I FIXED IT" but things get comically worse
4. Shepard and/or Anderson come in to clean up the mess

It has happened before with rachni, creepers, Reaper technology, husks, children biotics, autistic biotics, human-AI hybrids, derelict Reapers, traitors, Thresher Maws, Grayson, and will certainly happen again.  TIM is like all three stooges wrapped into one.  He'll find a way to screw up the Collector Base (and actually he already has, with Grayson).

Logically it wouldn't make sense for there to be anything special there anyway, aside from maybe a recipe for human smoothies and a bunch of tubes.  The Collectors were being controlled by the Reapers and so there really was no need at all for any random Reaper technology to be lying around that base that wasn't exclusively for mashing up humans.  At best you may get a new Collector weapon, but even then you already picked up the Particle Beam.

[nevar00]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

I kept the base in all my main plays. If keeping the base was paragon everyone would chose the option, since Renegades seem to think about their options and Paragons have blind faith in going top right/left.

"Renegades" thinking about their options... before clicking the bottom right option blindly, right?  Otherwise they wouldn't be "renegades"...

Modifié par nevar00, 02 mars 2011 - 05:34 .

[Kingthlayer]

nevar00 wrote...

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

I kept the base in all my main plays. If keeping the base was paragon everyone would chose the option, since Renegades seem to think about their options and Paragons have blind faith in going top right/left.

"Renegades" thinking about their options... before clicking the bottom right option blindly, right?  Otherwise they wouldn't be "renegades"...

I base my opinions on what I see on this message board.  All I tend to see from Paragons are lol TIM is evil, lol Cerberus is evil, lol Rachni tryed to kill everyone before but now they tell me they're nice and I believe them  lol, lol Council have special powers that's why they're worth saving over 1000s of human lives, lol Turian council member is funny so I need to keep him alive even though he hates everything I do.

[Undertone]

nevar00 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...


The base however, as I explained, offers the chance to study our enemy. You clearly are afraid of indoctrination. I ask you, what are you plans in the future when the Reapers are indoctrinating people and turning them on you? You will not be be able to hide from Reaper tech once the Reapers arrive. If you want to find a way to defeat the danger of indoctrination then you need to study it under controlled circumstances. The Collector base offers this possibility.

I'm guessing you haven't read the books... or payed much attention to the game.    The way things work with Cerberus usually goes like this:

1.  TIM tries experimenting with something
2.  something goes horribly wrong
3. TIM tries to go "THERE I FIXED IT" but things get comically worse
4. Shepard and/or Anderson come in to clean up the mess

It has happened before with rachni, creepers, Reaper technology, husks, children biotics, autistic biotics, human-AI hybrids, derelict Reapers, traitors, Thresher Maws, Grayson, and will certainly happen again.  TIM is like all three stooges wrapped into one.  He'll find a way to screw up the Collector Base (and actually he already has, with Grayson).

Logically it wouldn't make sense for there to be anything special there anyway, aside from maybe a recipe for human smoothies and a bunch of tubes.  The Collectors were being controlled by the Reapers and so there really was no need at all for any random Reaper technology to be lying around that base that wasn't exclusively for mashing up humans.  At best you may get a new Collector weapon, but even then you already picked up the Particle Beam.

Books/Comics are **** and irrelevant, no offense to their authors. There are many who don't even consider them cannon. Messes up continuity that ME1 set up even more.

Cerberus however is also = Lazarus Project, EDI, SR2, IFF. Let's not forget the Thanix cannon too which is Reaper tech too. Without those pretty much Shepard would have been dead, dead, dead/no vechichle/not being able to enter Omega 4 Relay and stop the Collectors and hmm minus one crew/messed up ship.

Anyway as the person above me said, renegades go with logic, paragons make blind blue decisions just cause it's paragon. Same with the Rachni Queen. Luckily for you Bioware helps you and things always work out.

[DarthVadoc]

nevar00 wrote...
I'm guessing you haven't read the books... or payed much attention to the game.    The way things work with Cerberus usually goes like this:

1.  TIM tries experimenting with something
2.  something goes horribly wrong
3. TIM tries to go "THERE I FIXED IT" but things get comically worse
4. Shepard and/or Anderson come in to clean up the mess

It has happened before with rachni, creepers, Reaper technology, husks, children biotics, autistic biotics, human-AI hybrids, derelict Reapers, traitors, Thresher Maws, Grayson, and will certainly happen again.  TIM is like all three stooges wrapped into one.  He'll find a way to screw up the Collector Base (and actually he already has, with Grayson).

Logically it wouldn't make sense for there to be anything special there anyway, aside from maybe a recipe for human smoothies and a bunch of tubes.  The Collectors were being controlled by the Reapers and so there really was no need at all for any random Reaper technology to be lying around that base that wasn't exclusively for mashing up humans.  At best you may get a new Collector weapon, but even then you already picked up the Particle Beam.

This sums it up for me, everything Cerberus touches goes to hell [apart from rebuilding Shepard and Normandy]

I agree with what Samara said "The Illusive man thinks he has the wisdom to utilise the base, he does not"

[nevar00]

Undertone wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...


The base however, as I explained, offers the chance to study our enemy. You clearly are afraid of indoctrination. I ask you, what are you plans in the future when the Reapers are indoctrinating people and turning them on you? You will not be be able to hide from Reaper tech once the Reapers arrive. If you want to find a way to defeat the danger of indoctrination then you need to study it under controlled circumstances. The Collector base offers this possibility.

I'm guessing you haven't read the books... or payed much attention to the game.    The way things work with Cerberus usually goes like this:

1.  TIM tries experimenting with something
2.  something goes horribly wrong
3. TIM tries to go "THERE I FIXED IT" but things get comically worse
4. Shepard and/or Anderson come in to clean up the mess

It has happened before with rachni, creepers, Reaper technology, husks, children biotics, autistic biotics, human-AI hybrids, derelict Reapers, traitors, Thresher Maws, Grayson, and will certainly happen again.  TIM is like all three stooges wrapped into one.  He'll find a way to screw up the Collector Base (and actually he already has, with Grayson).

Logically it wouldn't make sense for there to be anything special there anyway, aside from maybe a recipe for human smoothies and a bunch of tubes.  The Collectors were being controlled by the Reapers and so there really was no need at all for any random Reaper technology to be lying around that base that wasn't exclusively for mashing up humans.  At best you may get a new Collector weapon, but even then you already picked up the Particle Beam.

Books/Comics are **** and irrelevant, no offense to their authors. There are many who don't even consider them cannon. Messes up continuity that ME1 set up even more.

Cerberus however is also = Lazarus Project, EDI, SR2, IFF. Let's not forget the Thanix cannon too which is Reaper tech too. Without those pretty much Shepard would have been dead, dead, dead/no vechichle/not being able to enter Omega 4 Relay and stop the Collectors and hmm minus one crew/messed up ship.

Anyway as the person above me said, renegades go with logic, paragons make blind blue decisions just cause it's paragon. Same with the Rachni Queen. Luckily for you Bioware helps you and things always work out.

Even discounting the books and going just by the games, everything TIM touches turns to ****.  SR-2 is really the only accomplishment he has ever done without a problem: even the Lazarus Project almost failed.  And the Thanix Canon is Turian technology; I'm not sure what you're talking about there.

Sure there are some blind paragons, just as there are renegades who blindly follow Cerberus. If renegades made their decisions on "logic", they wouldn't be exclusively renegades...

Modifié par nevar00, 02 mars 2011 - 05:52 .

[Pwener2313]

Keeping the base is not a moral choice, but an ethical one. Paragon and renegade should have had nothing to do with it.

[Barquiel]

Undertone wrote...

Anyway as the person above me said, renegades go with logic, paragons make blind blue decisions just cause it's paragon.

You have a funny definition of "logic"...considering that many of the renegade choices are tied to racism.

[Pwener2313]

Racism funded the US. Think about it.

[DarthVadoc]

Every single person on Shepard's squad say's he did the wrong thing EVEN Miranda. Either it's a clever trick by Bioware to make people save the base only to realise in ME3 it's a BAD idea or destroying the base is the right choice and your crew is just expressing that.

Either way i think destroying the base is the right choice who cares if you dont get any "reaper" tech. You'll probably have an whole army of Rachni soldiers at your side if you saved them in ME1 anyway.

Modifié par DarthVadoc, 02 mars 2011 - 05:57 .

[Undertone]

Barquiel wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Anyway as the person above me said, renegades go with logic, paragons make blind blue decisions just cause it's paragon.

You have a funny definition of "logic"...considering that many of the renegade choices are tied to racism.

The level of idealism on this forum those days is overloading my neural inhibitors

It's all about progress and survival of the fittest kid. Grow up.

[Kingthlayer]

Barquiel wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Anyway as the person above me said, renegades go with logic, paragons make blind blue decisions just cause it's paragon.

You have a funny definition of "logic"...considering that many of the renegade choices are tied to racism.

It's been a while since I went through Mass Effect 1 and 2 and randomly selected every Renegade option without thinking it through but I can't seem to think of many that are tied to racism.  Please enlighten to me to all those racist options.

[Kingthlayer]

DP

Modifié par Big Mac Heart Attack, 02 mars 2011 - 06:02 .

[Aedan_Cousland]

Destroy it.

The base was used to build Reapers, and Cerberus can't be trusted with it. What is to stop TIM from creating some version of a 'shackled' Reaper? I mean, what could possibily go wrong with creating your own Reaper?
 
That, and holding on to the base is a bit stilly when you don't have any ability whatsoever to defend the base against the Reapers. What is to stop the Reapers and their allies from attacking and retaking the Collector Base, and picking up where they left off with the creation of a human Reaper? It is better to destroy the base to prevent humans being used to create new Reapers.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 02 mars 2011 - 06:09 .

[nevar00]

The more I think about it, the stupider it is to keep the base. The Normandy is the only ship that can get over there anyway! Although I expect Bioware will pretend that was never the case...

[Rawke]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Anyway as the person above me said, renegades go with logic, paragons make blind blue decisions just cause it's paragon.

You have a funny definition of "logic"...considering that many of the renegade choices are tied to racism.

It's been a while since I went through Mass Effect 1 and 2 and randomly selected every Renegade option without thinking it through but I can't seem to think of many that are tied to racism.  Please enlighten to me to all those racist options.

Well, in ME2, in most of the important decisions and a lot of conversations when Cerberus is a topic the renegade answer/choice is usually in support of Cerberus and human dominance above all. That racist enough for you?

[Undertone]

nevar00 wrote...

The more I think about it, the stupider
it is to keep the base. The Normandy is the only ship that can get over
there anyway! Although I expect Bioware will pretend that was never
the case...

No. Play the game again.

Rawke wrote...

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Anyway as the person above me said, renegades go with logic, paragons make blind blue decisions just cause it's paragon.

You have a funny definition of "logic"...considering that many of the renegade choices are tied to racism.

It's been a while since I went through Mass Effect 1 and 2 and randomly selected every Renegade option without thinking it through but I can't seem to think of many that are tied to racism.  Please enlighten to me to all those racist options.

Well, in ME2, in most of the important decisions and a lot of conversations when Cerberus is a topic the renegade answer/choice is usually in support of Cerberus and human dominance above all. That racist enough for you?

What's wrong with human dominance if it provides progress? Do you expect turians to look after human interests?

Modifié par Undertone, 02 mars 2011 - 06:21 .

[nevar00]

Undertone wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

The more I think about it, the stupider
it is to keep the base. The Normandy is the only ship that can get over
there anyway! Although I expect Bioware will pretend that was never
the case...

No. Play the game again.

Enlighten me; the only reason the Normandy got through the Relay was because of the Reaper IFF.

I don't think there are many of those lying around.

[Barquiel]

Undertone wrote...

It's all about progress and survival of the fittest kid. Grow up.

how mature...<_<

[Rawke]

Undertone wrote...

nevar00 wrote...

The more I think about it, the stupider
it is to keep the base. The Normandy is the only ship that can get over
there anyway! Although I expect Bioware will pretend that was never
the case...

No. Play the game again.

Rawke wrote...

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Anyway as the person above me said, renegades go with logic, paragons make blind blue decisions just cause it's paragon.

You have a funny definition of "logic"...considering that many of the renegade choices are tied to racism.

It's been a while since I went through Mass Effect 1 and 2 and randomly selected every Renegade option without thinking it through but I can't seem to think of many that are tied to racism.  Please enlighten to me to all those racist options.

Well, in ME2, in most of the important decisions and a lot of conversations when Cerberus is a topic the renegade answer/choice is usually in support of Cerberus and human dominance above all. That racist enough for you?

What's wrong with human dominance if it provides progress? Do you expect turians to look after human interests?

No, I expect the Turians to crush humanity should it ever be a threat to the balance of power. For each and every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Unless you mess with the turians in which case the reaction will be twice as strong. This whole "galaxy-domination"-idea Cerberus promotes would only end in a lot of blood-spilling and a crippled Alliance.

Modifié par Rawke, 02 mars 2011 - 06:29 .

[DarthVadoc]

nevar00 wrote...
Enlighten me; the only reason the Normandy got through the Relay was because of the Reaper IFF.

I don't think there are many of those lying around.

If you save the base after your conversation with TIM you can see TIM sitting down looking at a hologram of the collector base with cerberus ships going towards it.

[Barquiel]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

Barquiel wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Anyway as the person above me said, renegades go with logic, paragons make blind blue decisions just cause it's paragon.

You have a funny definition of "logic"...considering that many of the renegade choices are tied to racism.

It's been a while since I went through Mass Effect 1 and 2 and randomly selected every Renegade option without thinking it through but I can't seem to think of many that are tied to racism.  Please enlighten to me to all those racist options.

ME1 starts...
"We can't trust him he's a turian"

This doesn't sound very logical to me, but emotional.

let the council die , the big stupid jellyfish, all turians are the same,...